Decades of Darkness
- Thread starter Jared
- Start date
Apologies for missing these - for some reason alerts for this thread have dropped off.
So, I may well have to hope that Trump remains president for a while in that case.
Rewriting the whole of DoD for publication would be a major undertaking which I really don't have time for at the moment. Due to a change of direction partway through for some threads (eg the emergence of different states), it would need a wholescale revision which needs a commitment of continuous time and effort, not doing it in bits and pieces.
So, I may well have to hope that Trump remains president for a while in that case.
I don't have anything published through Sea Lion Press at the moment. It's unlikely that either of my major timelines (this or Lands of Red and Gold) will be published there any time soon, though it's possible I may look to publish some smaller pieces through them.
So, to get DoD published would require a decade of darkness? At that point the narrative appeal of an 'evil America' might have worn off. Probably could still find a market in Russia though.
xsampa
Banned
America and Non-White Immigration
As Jared has noted throughout DoD, East Asians and Indians are not the subject of *American hatred because of their focus on Africans and Latin Americans. Also, there has been a small amount of migration from Asia after the Great War, mostly from former German Formosa as seen in #114d. With the gradual acceptance of Asians as honorary whites, might the *Americans consider opening the door to large-scale immigration from Asia, especially from regions occupied by the Restored Empire & allies, the foes that *Americans dislike the most due to the Great War and ideological rivalries? Or will the potential influx of not-white immigrants who are outside the hierarchy of anglo-ladino-negro trigger a reaction?
As Jared has noted throughout DoD, East Asians and Indians are not the subject of *American hatred because of their focus on Africans and Latin Americans. Also, there has been a small amount of migration from Asia after the Great War, mostly from former German Formosa as seen in #114d. With the gradual acceptance of Asians as honorary whites, might the *Americans consider opening the door to large-scale immigration from Asia, especially from regions occupied by the Restored Empire & allies, the foes that *Americans dislike the most due to the Great War and ideological rivalries? Or will the potential influx of not-white immigrants who are outside the hierarchy of anglo-ladino-negro trigger a reaction?
Apologies for the belated response to this: I'd missed the alerts that someone had responded to this thread.
To put it in more detail, it is quite true that *Americans focus on keeping African and Latin Americans "in their place" means that they are less worried about other peoples. However, this is largely a function of the fact that they don't perceive any threat by these peoples. If there was particularly large-scale immigration, then this would be more of a concern.
In other words, the *Americans are not overly concerned over a few Turks or other Middle Eastern peoples coming to *America, because they don't need to be. There aren't many, and the general *American attitude means that not many more want to come.
For those who do want to come, Middle Eastern people who look vaguely "white" by *American standards will do better, as will those who are Christian. So OTL Lebanese Maronites will do reasonably well if they can pass for the (more relaxed ITTL) *American standard for white. Jews are also more acceptable due to familiarity by now, though this means less prejudice rather than none. Muslims who face the double barrier of being non-Christian and non-"white" will fare the worst.
Short answer is "better than non-White Hispanics, but not well." The USA has a racial hierarchy which implicitly has American whites at the top, other whites second, East Asians off to one side, Indians a special case, other "brown" peoples as they see them further down and best kept out if in any numbers, and "blacks" at the bottom.
To put it in more detail, it is quite true that *Americans focus on keeping African and Latin Americans "in their place" means that they are less worried about other peoples. However, this is largely a function of the fact that they don't perceive any threat by these peoples. If there was particularly large-scale immigration, then this would be more of a concern.
In other words, the *Americans are not overly concerned over a few Turks or other Middle Eastern peoples coming to *America, because they don't need to be. There aren't many, and the general *American attitude means that not many more want to come.
For those who do want to come, Middle Eastern people who look vaguely "white" by *American standards will do better, as will those who are Christian. So OTL Lebanese Maronites will do reasonably well if they can pass for the (more relaxed ITTL) *American standard for white. Jews are also more acceptable due to familiarity by now, though this means less prejudice rather than none. Muslims who face the double barrier of being non-Christian and non-"white" will fare the worst.
This is similar to above, with the caveat that most East Asian and Indian migrants end up congregated within key locations within a few key cities. They are not viewed as much of a concern because the *Americans who live near those locations (the "Chinatowns" and equivalents) are more familiar with them, and there aren't generally that many. Step into rural *America and there would be less familiarity and potentially more hostility, particularly for those Indians who would be considered darker-skinned by *American standards. Not "throw them into peonage" level of hostility, but definitely less welcome.
I have quickly checked, but there is a strange formatting issue.
Start on the first page of the thread. There are some strange formatting anomalies.
Max Sinister
Banned
OK, now I see. You mean the garbled quotes, which were replaced by random characters. I guess since it's only happening with old posts, maybe something went wrong during a forum update.
xsampa
Banned
How centralized is Bharat? IOTL, India is one of the most federal nations on Earth, with states having more power than the central government. Given Bharat's emphasis on One Language, One Nation, I suspect the states have markedly less power because the lack of the linguistic rationale that led to the OTL post-1961 State system.
xsampa
Banned
I'm trying to collect a list of foreshadows the general direction of the 'future' of DoD
America
America
- The Newest South may become a series of fiefdoms like the Soviet provinces
- It will fall behind the rest of the world economically
- It will effectively cede Whydah to Portugal
- Jaguars will fight overseas, most likely in German territory e.g Algeria
- Germany will be forced to liberalize its hold or face Russian/American backed warfare
- France may reunify
- Russian protectorates may be absorbed e.g Serbia
- England may restore its monarchy
- Galicia may become independent
- Germany will shift towards RE
- Will include N. China and Muslim protectorates e.g Iran
- Strengthening ties with Africa
- China will develop its own sphere of influence in Asia
- Choson will become increasingly independent
- Formosa will experience discontent
- Afghanistan will become a neutral buffer
- South India drifts towards the Empire
- Zambesia will be granted independence
- Equatorial Africa will be granted independence
- Algeria may face some type of rebellion, possibly backed by US forces
- Central Africa is occupied as a proGerman protectorate
- Decolonization and recolonization will become normal
Max Sinister
Banned
Hm. Whether the colonial powers like it or not, there'll be a decolonization movement. And at the same time, they're still competitors. Who'll get hit first?
Uhm. That's the world where the United States conquered and enslaved everything down to South America. In the literal sense of the world enslaved. Nevermind such minor issues like what happened in Europe. So no I'm unconvinced decolonisation is inevitable here. Not when the newly independent states will be running the danger of your friendly USN task force showing up to enslave you anew for example.
xsampa
Banned
If the new colonies agree to have defense handled by the mother country, and are essentially puppets, I don't think the threat of the US invading is as severe as you make it out to be.
If 'decolonisation' refers to the end of the old colonial empires then it's already mostly achieved. Most of Asia and half of Africa are independent now. The fate Portugal's colonies depends on Portugal's own financial stability, while Germany has already set the precedent in Morocco of being content with African versions of its European puppets. Russia's colonies in Asia are mostly already integrated into the Federation one way or another, with the exception of China...
The real question again then is what 'decolonisation' refers to. OTL we don't really use it in reference to the old Soviet Empire or currently 'colonised' regions such as Tibet, Palestine, and West Papua. It's a specific phrase used to describe the end of the European overseas empires. 'Colonisation' however is alive and well. The DoD world is so fractured politically and ideologically it's probably not useful to have a blanket use of 'decolonisation'. The Americas have gone a long way backwards on the topic, while the Restored Empire's approach to race/political autonomy is reminiscent of OTL's post-Cold War period. Russia and Germany are something different again.
The real question again then is what 'decolonisation' refers to. OTL we don't really use it in reference to the old Soviet Empire or currently 'colonised' regions such as Tibet, Palestine, and West Papua. It's a specific phrase used to describe the end of the European overseas empires. 'Colonisation' however is alive and well. The DoD world is so fractured politically and ideologically it's probably not useful to have a blanket use of 'decolonisation'. The Americas have gone a long way backwards on the topic, while the Restored Empire's approach to race/political autonomy is reminiscent of OTL's post-Cold War period. Russia and Germany are something different again.
xsampa
Banned
The Newest South is something different enough from your standard colony not to warrant the label. Due to racial reasons, its locals are granted autonomy from Columbia, and have some type of rights only in their territories. This may have the side effect of making the creation of regional fiefdoms easier, as the locals a) have no incentive to identify with the US that conquered them b) are outside of the US political system by being in the territories c) are or will be granted autonomy for racial reasons. I 'expect' this to lead to them effectively running the show in their regions, and gradually 'seceding' from the US proper through drains on the economy through patronage, much like the Brezhnev-era fiefdoms of the USSR.