If the Third Reich took over Britain, who would have led the colloborationist Gov?

[IntellectuallyHonestRhino]

This is not a debate on whether The Nazis could have. This is not a thread about the infamous sea mammal.


In France, Petain was chosen to lead the collaborationist Vichy France government. In Serbia, it was Milan Nedic. Who would have been chosen as the British collaborator and why?

Also, what happens to the British political parties?


Is Churchill executed?

Who would serve as the "British de Gaulle"? Or would the colonies submit once London is taken over? What about Free France now that Britain has been taken over?

What would happen to Scotland? To Wales? To Ireland? (both the North and the Republic)

 

[New Cleo Genesis]

Who would have been chosen as the British collaborator and why?

David Lloyd George, perhaps?

 

[IntellectuallyHonestRhino]

David Lloyd George, perhaps?

Why is that? I know about how during the 30's he praised Hitler.

How would that impact British democracy? Would the Liberal party become the collaborationist party?

 

[Gar48]

What about Oswald Mosley?
I also immagine that the Nazis will give the trone back to king Edward, considering his fascist tendencies

 

[New Cleo Genesis]

Why is that? I know about how during the 30's he praised Hitler.

How would that impact British democracy? Would the Liberal party become the collaborationist party?

I think you'd need someone with a lot of credibility among the general populace, and Lloyd George certainly fits that part (just like Pétain in France). The fact that he expressed pro-German viewpoints from the early-to-mid 1920's onwards is just icing on the cake.

 

[Gar48]

Churchill

If he doesn't escape, he will be surely executed
I immagine that the royal family will escape to Canada however rather than stay in England

Or would the colonies submit once London is taken over? What about Free France now that Britain has been taken over?

I suppose it t depends on the location of the colonies: Canada and Australia will immediately refuse to recognise the collaborationistic government, India will be trown into chaos ( especially if the invasion of Burma happens like OTL),King Farouk of Egypt will join the Axis or at least recognise Edward (in OTL he had shown admiration for Nazi Germany), the Jews in Palestine are screwed (i can think of at least three different scenarios) , Italy will seize British Somalia and Spain will do the same with Gibilrar
It is more complicated with South Africa: i immagine that they will side with Edward as long as he let Apartheid untouched but they will also try to have friendly relationships with the USA
Also yes, Free France is screwed

 

[Md139115]

What about Oswald Mosley?
I also immagine that the Nazis will give the trone back to king Edward, considering his fascist tendencies

Mosley is probably the best choice.

As for Edward, his whole abdication was carefully stage-managed to make absolutely sure that all the people understood that he left of his own accord since he wouldn’t be allowed to marry Wallis otherwise, and his brother is now the rightful king. Throwing all that out the window would entail the greatest undermining of the legitimacy of the British throne since the Glorious Revolution, and be a great deal less popular. There’s also the issue that there’s a vast sea of difference between saying: “we’re fighting the wrong people,” and “we have justly lost and now we need to do as they say,” and I’m not sure Edward would have done the latter.

 

[Halagaz]

Generally, Nazi Germany preferred not to install straight-up fascist governments in puppets and subordinate countries. They preferred regimes led by notable figures from the old period and only partial fascistization.

In other words, yeah: someone like Lloyd George, rather than Mosely. Mosely only gets a cabinet post - and that's if he's lucky.

Of course, I'm not convinced that Lloyd George would have accepted it. But who knows.

 

[Gar48]

brother is now the rightful king

The problem is that his brother is the same guy who approved the war against Germany and the Nazis will do anything to discredit him
Yes, Edward's abdication was done to discredit him but the Nazis won't care because he is the most legitimate ruler they have found and they can use him against an eventual british government in exile

 

[Gar48]

There’s also the issue that there’s a vast sea of difference between saying: “we’re fighting the wrong people,” and “we have justly lost and now we need to do as they say,” and I’m not sure Edward would have done the latter.

You mean like Mussolini after 1943?
Because the Nazis restored him to power anyway

 

[Gar48]

Lloyd George would have accepted it.

Petain was a war hero but he accepted anyway
I could see Llyoyd accepting the job, thinking it will allow him to contain the damage

 

[Halagaz]

Petain was a war hero but he accepted anyway
I could see Llyoyd accepting the job, thinking it will allow him to contain the damage

Yeah, it's definitely possible. But I could also see him refusing on moral and patriotic grounds - or simply because he feels he's too old.

 

[Ozzymandias]

There is a great story, and tv short series "SS-GB" by Len Deighton about that scenario. Britain is divided into free and occupied zone, controled by SS.

In 1941, the British Armed Forces surrendered, Churchill was tried by court-martial in Berlin and executed and King George VI was held in the Tower of London. Queen Elizabeth and her daughters Princess Elizabeth and Princess Margaret escaped to New Zealand while the Duke of Windsor escaped to The Bahamas. Rear Admiral Connolly formed a British government in exile in Washington, DC, but struggled to gain diplomatic recognition.

Hitler held a victory parade in London, the Soviet Red Fleet was given bases at Rosyth, Scapa Flow and Invergordon, and Hermann Göring and Joseph Goebbelswere on board the first non-stop Lufthansa flight from London to New York City.

Also, in Daily Mail there is this about screenwriters research

One chilling Nazi document – known as the Special Search List GB, also dubbed The Black Book – contained the names of 2,820 prominent people to be arrested after the invasion. It was an appendix to the Gestapo handbook for the invasion, which contained information about politically important aspects of British society.

It included institutions such as embassies, universities and Freemason lodges, which would help facilitate the Nazi occupation and administration of Britain.

Separately, generals had earmarked a selection of the country’s grandest stately homes for top Nazis to reside in, as well as handpicking Eton as the school of choice for their offspring.

The dossier, dubbed a ‘Nazi A to Z of Great Britain’, is littered with postcards and maps of iconic landmarks such as Blackpool Tower and the Mersey Tunnel, which were intended to help troops successfully identify locations during the invasion.

 

[Md139115]

You mean like Mussolini after 1943?
Because the Nazis restored him to power anyway

I meant more Edward willingly going along with it. Of course the Nazis would love to have him, but aside from threatening to harm Wallis (something easily taken care of beforehand by evacuating her), they would have precious little leverage.

 

[Gar48]

they would have precious little leverage.

Knowing Edward, getting back the throne and his high standard of life will be enough to convince him
I also immagine that he is intelligent enough to know what would happen to him if he didn't follow Berlin's istructions

 

[Md139115]

Knowing Edward, getting back the throne and his high standard of life will be enough to convince him
I also immagine that he is intelligent enough to know what would happen to him if he didn't follow Berlin's istructions

Look, I’m not saying that Edward isn’t a shallow brat with lousy taste in friends, but there is something worth noting about him. In 1936, he was popular enough among the common people that he could easily have said to Baldwin and the rest: “I’m making Wallis my Queen, end of discussion, try to stop me and you’ll have rioting or worse on your hands,” and he knew it. Instead, he gave up rather than risk the dissolution of the empire (some of the dominions were planning to overthrow him if he married Wallis) and possible civil war in the UK. I think there was some small shred of dignity and patriotism in him that is usually miscounted in these discussions.

 

[Gar48]

gave up rather than risk the dissolution of the empire

Then maybe we could use the same motivation to explain why he would accept the nazis' offer: he sees the situation and believes that he can save the british empire from further collapse

 

[Md139115]

Then maybe we could use the same motivation to explain why he would accept the nazis' offer: he sees the situation and believes that he can save the british empire from further collapse

“Hi there Canada, India, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and everyone else, we just lost the war and they’re now holding us hostage. Would you be so kind as to do whatever Herr Hitler says?”

 

[IntellectuallyHonestRhino]

“Hi there Canada, India, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and everyone else, we just lost the war and they’re now holding us hostage. Would you be so kind as to do whatever Herr Hitler says?”

The Afrikaners though would support the Germans so I think South Africa, with some regimental support from the continent could be under Collaborationist Britain's thumb. And in India, Subash Chandra Bose would be interesting there to say the least.


In Canada how the Quebecois react would also be interesting.


Really the WASPS of the colonies would be the least willing to cooperate. Have London fall and the others may see working with Berlin a good option.

 

[Gar48]

“Hi there Canada, India, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and everyone else, we just lost the war and they’re now holding us hostage. Would you be so kind as to do whatever Herr Hitler says?”

I already made a post about this

If he doesn't escape, he will be surely executed
I immagine that the royal family will escape to Canada however rather than stay in England

I suppose it t depends on the location of the colonies: Canada and Australia will immediately refuse to recognise the collaborationistic government, India will be trown into chaos ( especially if the invasion of Burma happens like OTL),King Farouk of Egypt will join the Axis or at least recognise Edward (in OTL he had shown admiration for Nazi Germany), the Jews in Palestine are screwed (i can think of at least three different scenarios) , Italy will seize British Somalia and Spain will do the same with Gibilrar
It is more complicated with South Africa: i immagine that they will side with Edward as long as he let Apartheid untouched but they will also try to have friendly relationships with the USA
Also yes, Free France is screwed