Wish there was a way to reach GAB-1955, but given the abrupt end of Pro Aris lined up with no further posting the past six and a half years, I don't know if he still remains among the living.
When the Wind Blew: a P&S Open Thread
- Thread starter Gen_Patton
- Start date
That sucks. A lot. The man had a gift. I hope he's still writing, somewhere.
Him and...Wolf Tome, or something like that, the guy who did the Ireland one? Dude said he had cancer, and then just disappeared. I fear we might have lost both of them.
A question for y'all:
One thing we haven't really covered, really had anyone write about, is the Soviet perspective during the buildup to war. I'm thinking about maybe doing a short story about the final week on the Soviet side of things. Not sure how I would approach it, or if someone else would want to write it....it's kind of a thought, though. There's a good story in there for sure.
One thing we haven't really covered, really had anyone write about, is the Soviet perspective during the buildup to war. I'm thinking about maybe doing a short story about the final week on the Soviet side of things. Not sure how I would approach it, or if someone else would want to write it....it's kind of a thought, though. There's a good story in there for sure.
It would be really interesting to see the POV of a Soviet civilian (preferably in a more survivable area), since in some cases, they will be the inheritors of the soviet state.
Like some commissar and his political officer schmuck in, say, Omsk.
Is thee any survivable areas in the USSR?
I seem to recall P&S suggesting the place was carpet bombed, conventional and nuclear...
I was thinking more in a normal citizen.
during the cold war, there were less targets in the area between the Urals and the lake Baikal, and central Asia south of it. This mean most major cities would be destroyed, but the density of the targets was smaller, and didn't coincide with all larger cities.
https://futureoflife.org/background/us-nuclear-targets/
Has anyone read Marc Ambinder's The Brink: President Reagan and the Nuclear War Scare of 1983?
It's the companion, more or less, to the one from earlier this year that Taylor Downing wrote, and gives further insight into that year and some of the thereafter parts. One of the major twists: As the U.S. ran its annual non-NATO nuclear war game, called Night Hawk '84, in April 1984, the Soviets suddenly ramped all the way up on alert, steaming a 200 ship armada out of the Kola Pennisula, sending Backfires out over Norway, sending other strategic bombers to East Germany, putting interceptors on runway alert...it scared the crap out of us. The Pentagon played it cool, but behind the scenes there was near panic that war would start by sheer accident. Even worse, the Soviets had semi-cracked our nuclear communications codes. If we escalated, they'd have more advance knowledge than the norm.
What really gets me is that about 7-8 years after Macragge begat us this darkly beautiful alter-verse, his war date was less than two months off of what nearly was war.
It's the companion, more or less, to the one from earlier this year that Taylor Downing wrote, and gives further insight into that year and some of the thereafter parts. One of the major twists: As the U.S. ran its annual non-NATO nuclear war game, called Night Hawk '84, in April 1984, the Soviets suddenly ramped all the way up on alert, steaming a 200 ship armada out of the Kola Pennisula, sending Backfires out over Norway, sending other strategic bombers to East Germany, putting interceptors on runway alert...it scared the crap out of us. The Pentagon played it cool, but behind the scenes there was near panic that war would start by sheer accident. Even worse, the Soviets had semi-cracked our nuclear communications codes. If we escalated, they'd have more advance knowledge than the norm.
What really gets me is that about 7-8 years after Macragge begat us this darkly beautiful alter-verse, his war date was less than two months off of what nearly was war.
This is my idea:
Title of TL:Look at the Stone of Ankara
Setting:Turkey
Brief Description:This story have three main characters.Our first character is a teacher in the Turkey-Soviet Border village,second character is a private in the Ankara (Turkey's capital) and our last character is a communist in Istanbul (Turkey's biggest city).Also we have a some minor characters.
Title of TL:Look at the Stone of Ankara
Setting:Turkey
Brief Description:This story have three main characters.Our first character is a teacher in the Turkey-Soviet Border village,second character is a private in the Ankara (Turkey's capital) and our last character is a communist in Istanbul (Turkey's biggest city).Also we have a some minor characters.
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This timeline is a common heritage long ago. No one owns it but everyone is free to add his own bits as long as they are not contradicting.
I think @SultanArda described a very bright idea.
I think @SultanArda described a very bright idea.
Sounds very interesting indeed.
Turkey is in a mess in P&S it’s going to get screwed by everyone.
Chapter One
When the Soviets shot down Royal Dutch Airlines Flight 146 the Turkish people didn't care about this because they have a big problems.But when Turkish people learned it's route they shocked because this plane coming Turkey.So TBMM (Council) passed the Emergency Management Act.To the this act police officers (including traffic wardens) had a weapons and if they are in danger they can use.Also hospitals didn't serve diseases like flu or headache.Finally you will need ration card to get some grains.This enforcement did in World War.Representatives say Prime Minister Turgut Özal will talk about this attack.
The Private watch the tv in the barracks.He is doing his military service in the heart of Turkish politics,Ankara.He is thought about his love,Ayşe.Suddenly he is hearing Turgut Özal's voice.Turgut Özal is telling sanctions to Soviet Union.
The Communist is reading Karl Marx's book with listening Cem Karaca's songs.He knows both of them banned but he doesn't care about this.He got out of prison last month.At that time his mother call him to listen Turgut Özal. He say "I don't want listen this capitalist" and he is finished his book.
The Teacher's village has not got television so they are listening explanation in the radio.Teacher is frighetened because she doesn't want war.If war gets out she won't educate the children.And innocent souls will die.She is always side of peace.
This is my first thread
When the Soviets shot down Royal Dutch Airlines Flight 146 the Turkish people didn't care about this because they have a big problems.But when Turkish people learned it's route they shocked because this plane coming Turkey.So TBMM (Council) passed the Emergency Management Act.To the this act police officers (including traffic wardens) had a weapons and if they are in danger they can use.Also hospitals didn't serve diseases like flu or headache.Finally you will need ration card to get some grains.This enforcement did in World War.Representatives say Prime Minister Turgut Özal will talk about this attack.
The Private watch the tv in the barracks.He is doing his military service in the heart of Turkish politics,Ankara.He is thought about his love,Ayşe.Suddenly he is hearing Turgut Özal's voice.Turgut Özal is telling sanctions to Soviet Union.
The Communist is reading Karl Marx's book with listening Cem Karaca's songs.He knows both of them banned but he doesn't care about this.He got out of prison last month.At that time his mother call him to listen Turgut Özal. He say "I don't want listen this capitalist" and he is finished his book.
The Teacher's village has not got television so they are listening explanation in the radio.Teacher is frighetened because she doesn't want war.If war gets out she won't educate the children.And innocent souls will die.She is always side of peace.
This is my first thread
I swear, I thought at first you were saying this thread was getting a Blu-Ray remaster. Like I could see every pixel of the words and crystal clear subtext.
I hate to do this (and start a major argument), but I think the P&S timeline may be possibly faulty. The reason is simple: as soon as the conventional war started, it's very likely both the Americans and Soviet would have evacuated as many of their top politicians out of Washington, DC and Moscow to someplace a lot safer. This means on the American side, Congress would have moved its members to the The Greenbrier resort's bunker and the President definitely away from Washington, DC, probably flying the E-4 command post. And the Russians would have moved the Politburo out of Moscow to a bunker well outside the city. So by the time of the nuclear exchange, the top politicians on both sides would be (mostly) out of harm's way. And the same applied to the British--the Royal Family would probably have left London even before the start of hostilities.
The conventional stage is not well documented in the original P&S but I figure it’s going to be more limited to Europe and the lands surrounding the Soviet Union- I cant see bomber runs on New York for example.
With the British air defence engaging anything approaching the UK I could see the Queen staying in London for ‘morale’ and similar for Thatcher- the PM using No10’s bunker for C&C until the nukes rolled out.
Similar in the US I guess - though the VP is probably moved from DC regardless of if there is air raids etc.
With the British air defence engaging anything approaching the UK I could see the Queen staying in London for ‘morale’ and similar for Thatcher- the PM using No10’s bunker for C&C until the nukes rolled out.
Similar in the US I guess - though the VP is probably moved from DC regardless of if there is air raids etc.
So, here's the deal. While the assumption is that politicians would be bailed out immediately, from a practical perspective that isn't necessarily true. After the first day passed without any WMD's, I think that Western politicians would stay where their C&C was situated. Because war plans (well-known to the Soviets because of Rainier Rupp's spying) called for NATO forces to use tactical nukes once conventional forces were unable to defend a certain point (either the Elbe or the Rhine, depending on who you believe), NATO would arm the Pershings and then the leadership would bail out en masse. Because NATO war plans called for being the ones to launch a first strike, I find it logical, if not rational, for leadership to stay put until they launched. Now, what happened here was an accidental detonation, a miscue in the field, and that derailed NATO plans, leaving them more susceptible to being taken out. We know from history that leaders from Jack Kennedy to Dubya Bush wanted to stay in the White House even if everything went to hell, not to mention that Reagan was horrified at the thought of nuclear war and probably would want to stay in town to reassure citizens. With that said, Kassel now made NATO the ones to escalate, and because the HotLine ran through the NMCC inside the Pentagon, it'd be a lot harder to properly use it from the Nightwatch plane. So, there's a lot of factors that I think contribute to leadership staying in their capitals.
That all being said, the plot hole I found interesting was whatever happened to George Bush? He would've been at somewhere like Raven Rock or Mount Weather from the first. Did those get hit and not survive? Did they survive but couldn't reopen the bunkers?
Also, I did add in a fair amount about the domestic side in my T/L.
