Hadrian's Consolidation - reboot

The Romans know how big the Earth is. They know it would be suicide to try to take a voyage just as long in the open sea.
The people who would sponsor such expeditions also know what their ships are capable of and what they are clearly not suited for. So yeah, this hypothetical western fleet is not even going to be considered.

I could imagine an increased interest in sailing down the Western and Eastern African coastlines to see if there is anything to discover there, though.
 
The way I see the Roman's discovering the new world is that while they're exploring west Africa they will eventually make contact with the Ghana empire and build a port to facilitate faster and less dangerous trade so they won't have to go through the Sahara. And then one day on its way home from this port a storm happens to knock a ship off course and now the poor merchant has landed on the Eastern coasts of Brazil and has to find a way home...
(this is the most probable way to me as the distance between West Africa and eastern Brazil is considerably less than the distance between any carribean island and an Atlantic port. Combine this with how terrible the trip through the Sahara is and how much the expedition is going to complain when it comes home but shows all that gold. it's very likely the Roman's will find the new world this way.)

On a side note I too wanna see Roman expansion into eastern Europe and eventually see "rome" become synonymous with "europe" because the empire will control all of Europe from Ireland to the Ural's and from the northern reaches of Norway to Gibraltar (this is wishful thinking and probably what hecatee doesn't have in mind at all, which is fine cause all I need is Rome as the dominant superpower and my little regnum bosporum as its pet/client state that can kick barbarian ass on its own)
 
...On a side note I too wanna see Roman expansion into eastern Europe and eventually see "rome" become synonymous with "europe" because the empire will control all of Europe from Ireland to the Ural's and from the northern reaches of Norway to Gibraltar (this is wishful thinking and probably what hecatee doesn't have in mind at all, which is fine cause all I need is Rome as the dominant superpower and my little regnum bosporum as its pet/client state that can kick barbarian ass on its own)

Having the Bosporan Kingdom take Russia all the way and include Manchuria
 
Having the Bosporan Kingdom take Russia all the way and include Manchuria
That's quite a large bosporan kingdom there buddy is the king making up for something?
In seriousness that would be awesome but if it ever reaches that size it wont be a client state to the Roman's anymore as Russia has quite a bit of wealth in terms of natural resources. So the kingdom will be able to defy Rome to some extent.
 
The way I see the Roman's discovering the new world is that while they're exploring west Africa they will eventually make contact with the Ghana empire and build a port to facilitate faster and less dangerous trade so they won't have to go through the Sahara. And then one day on its way home from this port a storm happens to knock a ship off course and now the poor merchant has landed on the Eastern coasts of Brazil and has to find a way home...
(this is the most probable way to me as the distance between West Africa and eastern Brazil is considerably less than the distance between any carribean island and an Atlantic port. Combine this with how terrible the trip through the Sahara is and how much the expedition is going to complain when it comes home but shows all that gold. it's very likely the Roman's will find the new world this way.)

On a side note I too wanna see Roman expansion into eastern Europe and eventually see "rome" become synonymous with "europe" because the empire will control all of Europe from Ireland to the Ural's and from the northern reaches of Norway to Gibraltar (this is wishful thinking and probably what hecatee doesn't have in mind at all, which is fine cause all I need is Rome as the dominant superpower and my little regnum bosporum as its pet/client state that can kick barbarian ass on its own)
Why not Canada though? Weren't there supposedly Basque fishermen.that were fishing the Grand Banks before Columbus found the Carribean? I would guess that if they could do it Roman explorers or merchants might.
 
Lol I ended up liking pretty much every post since the update because I want Rome to go to the Caribbean and south of Morocco and Brazil and Canada and Russia and ALL THE PLACES!

EDIT: To make this post a bit more worthwhile, I think Rome should expand a bit south along the coast of Africa, for as long as the land is fertile, but I am not sure it should expand into Sub-Saharan Africa, at least not yet. Sahara would make for an excellent defensive barrier, just pacify all habitable land north of Sahara and turn the closest few oasis into forts so that no one can raid across the desert and you can effectively hold all of North Africa with a skeleton crew.
 
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Why not Canada though? Weren't there supposedly Basque fishermen.that were fishing the Grand Banks before Columbus found the Carribean? I would guess that if they could do it Roman explorers or merchants might.
well firstly I never heard of this story and now I'm thoroughly interested and will do more research later on that, but anyways doesn't that sound kinda crazy I mean don't get me wrong I love crazy things happening but I can't picture a basque fisherman telling his wife he's going on a little fishing trip and then braving the Atlantic, ending up in Canada, and proceeding to happily fish before he crosses the Atlantic with the fish somehow not spoiling and then he comes home to his wife and they proceed as if this is a regular thing for him to cross the Atlantic. Columbus barely made it across the Atlantic and he had full blown ocean going ships I can't see a fishing boat making that journey regularly with no complications what so ever. I mean if this was some high land Scotsman it'd be slightly more plausible cause he could just go island hopping to the Shetlands then the faroes then Iceland then Greenland and then finally vinland. But anyways I mean it's not impossible for that to happen just incredibly crazy and quite a fun story to tell the wife that you accidentally crossed the Atlantic ocean.
 
well firstly I never heard of this story and now I'm thoroughly interested and will do more research later on that, but anyways doesn't that sound kinda crazy I mean don't get me wrong I love crazy things happening but I can't picture a basque fisherman telling his wife he's going on a little fishing trip and then braving the Atlantic, ending up in Canada, and proceeding to happily fish before he crosses the Atlantic with the fish somehow not spoiling and then he comes home to his wife and they proceed as if this is a regular thing for him to cross the Atlantic. Columbus barely made it across the Atlantic and he had full blown ocean going ships I can't see a fishing boat making that journey regularly with no complications what so ever. I mean if this was some high land Scotsman it'd be slightly more plausible cause he could just go island hopping to the Shetlands then the faroes then Iceland then Greenland and then finally vinland. But anyways I mean it's not impossible for that to happen just incredibly crazy and quite a fun story to tell the wife that you accidentally crossed the Atlantic ocean.
They were salting (or deying) cold fish right there.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dried_and_salted_cod
 
the thing to consider are the trade winds, from Europe you go south then west, coming home north to east until they figure that out it's mostly coastal sailing as far as navigation is concerned, wouldn't want to sail out of sight of land and fall off the edge of the world... the Viking were going the wrong way,
 
well firstly I never heard of this story and now I'm thoroughly interested and will do more research later on that, but anyways doesn't that sound kinda crazy I mean don't get me wrong I love crazy things happening but I can't picture a basque fisherman telling his wife he's going on a little fishing trip and then braving the Atlantic, ending up in Canada, and proceeding to happily fish before he crosses the Atlantic with the fish somehow not spoiling and then he comes home to his wife and they proceed as if this is a regular thing for him to cross the Atlantic. Columbus barely made it across the Atlantic and he had full blown ocean going ships I can't see a fishing boat making that journey regularly with no complications what so ever. I mean if this was some high land Scotsman it'd be slightly more plausible cause he could just go island hopping to the Shetlands then the faroes then Iceland then Greenland and then finally vinland. But anyways I mean it's not impossible for that to happen just incredibly crazy and quite a fun story to tell the wife that you accidentally crossed the Atlantic ocean.
The waters around Europe were getting somewhat fished out by the 1400s. If fishermen found a new fishing ground where they could reliably fill their boats and make lots of money, you bet they'd keep it a secret to cut down the competition and keep the money flwing in.

Also, the distance to the Grand Banks is a lot less than to the Caribbean. Moreover, they surely didn't think of what theydt found as 'a new continent', but rather 'new fishing grounds' with some big islands.
That's, of course, presupposing that they had found the Grand Banks before Cabot.
 
Well I still think the west africa-brazil situation is the best way but I definitely like the idea of a roman Canada which I guess would be called something like hyperborea if the Roman's reach it before they reach Russia or Scandinavia
 
I think discovering the new world will be a long time off There ships just couldn't do it and remember the Indian and the Atlantic are very different seas and Are we seeing a power in the Bosphorus emerge to challenge Rome. Could we get a map, please of Europe middles east Africa and China?
 
Senate House, Rome, May 177 (part 2)

Hecatee

Donor
Senate House, Rome, May 177 (part 2)


The Senate’s meeting had lasted until the sun fell down and it was no longer legal to keep the meeting going. Debate had been rich, with most senators, even the backbenchers, speaking at one point or another.

After showing the maps in the morning, Clodius Albinus had shown goods from all those lands and told about their local cost and how rare they seemed to be. Statues, silks, jewels, weapons of all kind, spices, precious stones and numerous other products were shown to the senators. The secret of silk making was made known, although Clodius Albinus had to recognize that he’d been unable to bring any of the precious insects home.

The riches he described and the artefacts themselves caused great curiosity and cupidity, many wondered how much the explorer had brought back home for his own use or to sell. There was no doubt that he would now have powerful bargaining tools and that those in his good favours would soon show some of these artefacts in their atrium…

In the meantime the Emperor ordered that what had been shown to the Senate would be visible to anyone : the forum of the divine Augustus would be set apart for a month to display everything, with the most precious items to be kept in the temple of Mars Ultor and all would be under the permanent guard of the praetorians. At this announcement a great shout of approbation had come from outside, surprising the senators.

Discussions kept going after the meeting’s formal end too, with groups of senators speaking about it while walking to their homes or during the whole evening, often with friends of the equestrian order who had not been present but had heard the rumors. Some already started to think about how to take benefit from these discoveries and new travelling ways…

The next morning the senate convened again. Many senators were tired from the previous evening but none wanted to miss what promised to be another exceptional session. Clodius Albinus dedicated the day to speaking about what he knew of the Serican Empire. This was eagerly expected by all as the news that an empire rivalling Rome existed had inflamed the spirit of many. As great as Rome ? Even the defeated Parthians had never been worthy of such a qualification !

Albinus described the number of cities and how many inhabited them according to the Sericans, and how he thought from what he’d seen that they were right, going on to explain how they made their census. He then described their political organization, as well as how they reckoned they had reached it. His description of the workings of the imperial court made many inconfortable, seeing how the roman court could fall into such a debasing state were it not led by good emperors such as Marcus Aurelius, but it was the description of the workings of the administration, with its mandated examinations and strict progression of positions, that made for the most discussion.

It was indeed the first time the Romans could compare their way of managing a large empire to another system working on as large a scale as theirs. The Roman Mos Maiorum had dictated the apparition of the Curriculum Vitae, at least for the senators and then for the equestrian order, until the recent reforms that had also started a path for wealthy provincials not possessing the census to enter the equestrian path. But always the election to the next level in the career had been decided by the people, the peers or the emperor, not a test or an examination. The only exception to that rule was of course the school of engineering, were one had to graduate to be able to enter the career, but that was because it was a kind of techne, of practical matter, as would be a profession, and not just administration…

The Serican system on the other hand was entirely based on those examinations, for all positions including it seemed provincial governors. Albinus had also been surprised by how many bureaucrats there were and how much of a drain on the imperial budget they must be for the Sericans.

Discussions on the topic lasted à long time, with every beneficial and negative effect of the Serican way being discussed...
 
the romans didn't have a bureaucracy :p

It was all either the military or private companies.
That kinda what I meant, their habit of pulling military officers off the line is not a good use of resources. I think it would be better to keep the military trained officers with their men. Especialy now that many of them are being trained for those positions. Civilian burocrats trained in civilian matters would be better in my opinion.
 
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