What if the Krigesmarine gets the type 21 in 1943? Would the battle of the Atlantic go worse for the allies?
Yeah March 43 sees a perfect alignment of the planets for the Allies regarding the BotA -at the time OTL the U Boats were winning but by May they had been beaten and stayed beaten.
They hit the required number of escorts
Escort carriers are introduced in significant numbers - allowing many convoys to have aircover
New Freighter numbers particulalrly US built ones start to increasingly exceed losses - and these ships are generally faster and more capable than the vessels they are replacing.
The RCN escort forces matures as a effective ASW force around this time
The USN escort forces matures as an effective ASW force around this time
Significantly LR Liberators are prized from the bomber commands of the RAF and USAAF along with other suitable aircraft basically eliminate the Black Gap
New weapons such as the Porcupine coupled with new tactics make said escort forces much more effective in the attack
In March 43 the FIDO is introduced and for every 6 of these air dropped homing torpedoes used in action 1 U Boat is sunk or damaged - in fact - it is so effective that the number ordered are significantly revised down from 10,000 to 4,000
What if the Krigesmarine gets the type 21 in 1943? Would the battle of the Atlantic go worse for the allies?
It's too late.
By then the allies have beaten the U-boats and are sinking them at a rate of 40 a month.
Type 21 would help a little, but sinking a few more ships isn't going to win the battle.
think of the implications of mass type XXI production in 1943 well it take a year for a u boat to come into service, so the XXI comes into use in 1944 too late.
what the germans need is the XXI to be in service by 1843 to do that they need to be building large numbers in 1942 to do that they would have had to develop the submarine in 1940
essentially they would have had to put considerable extra resources into U boat production and given up part of their U boat buildup in 1940 to 1943...
Correct and well done for spotting the deliberate error....*ahem*
Hedgehog
Some people here keep talking as if doing a revolutionary class of sub is something easy that just requires a bit of work a little earlier.
my view they should have attempted the smaller Elektroboot Type XXIII and the minisub Seeteufel (the tracked project), their real world problems included coastal defense, something transportable overland to the Med, and the case of the minisub, something that could launch itself in absence of facilities.
think of the implications of mass type XXI production in 1943 well it take a year for a u boat to come into service, so the XXI comes into use in 1944 too late.
what the germans need is the XXI to be in service by 1843 to do that they need to be building large numbers in 1942 to do that they would have had to develop the submarine in 1940
essentially they would have had to put considerable extra resources into U boat production and given up part of their U boat buildup in 1940 to 1943...
they had Dutch snorkel from 1940 but failed to implement it? probably half dozen other plausible evolutionary changes that could be made to Type VII without (major) interruption of the production lines?
why they didn't attempt smaller u-boat first, especially given need for one in Med, Baltic and Black Seas,
[snip] In his Hitler's U-Boat War Vol. 2, Blair said the XXI had too many defects to have made much difference.
they had Dutch snorkel from 1940 but failed to implement it? probably half dozen other plausible evolutionary changes that could be made to Type VII without (major) interruption of the production lines? (not saying they are leaping ahead of Allied countermeasures simply slowing the gains)
why they didn't attempt smaller u-boat first, especially given need for one in Med, Baltic and Black Seas, and its new production method (which lent itself more to smaller boat)?
German crews hated snorts, and they were fooled into thinking METOX revealed their positions.
They used Type II "ducks" in the Black Sea, and at least once in the NW approaches, see Operation Drumbeat.
What if the Krigesmarine gets the type 21 in 1943? Would the battle of the Atlantic go worse for the allies?
The Type 21 may be quieter than a Type VII on the battery, but she is twice as noisy on the snort. Read DEAD MEAT. The Germans did not raft their power-train properly. What they know about propellers is... well why do you think FIDO was designed to home in on screws instead of engine noise?