Dark Crescent - A Timeline of the Mande Empire

Really? I'm kinda iffy about that, it's harder than making Latin the official language of France or Spain post Reconquista. Mali is like the Ottomans in that they've accepted Islam, not it imposing itself on them. Hell Iran doesn't speak Arabic and they where invaded and ruled over. I can see the elites learning Arabic but the common language being Arabic is pushing it IMO.

Common people wont learn it indeed, i absolutely agree. Wording was terrible sorry. But the ruling classes will and the adminstration will use the arabic language especially as there is great written script for it ( what does not exist for native languages). My plan currently is to build up Sankhore and have the influential families send their male children there. There they are confronted with Religion, Sciences (as far as their intellect allows it) and well.. introduced into the Arabic script.

I would argue that the Mande languages clearly stay important (where they live)


TLDR: > Arabic rises to a higher prominencec in Secular use, especially in government matters.
> I should double check my posts :D
 
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Common people wont learn it indeed, i absolutely agree. Wording was terrible sorry. But the ruling classes will and the adminstration will use the arabic language especially as there is great written script for it ( what does not exist for native languages). My plan currently is to build up Sankhore and have the influential families send their male children there. There they are confronted with Religion, Sciences (as far as their intellect allows it) and well.. introduced into the Arabic script.

I would argue that the Mande languages clearly stay important (where they live), but it wont develop into the Lingua Franca it did iOTL.



TLDR: > Arabic rises to a higher prominencec in Secular use, especially in government matters.
> I should double check my posts :D
I see, but how long until Arabic Script is adopted to write other languages?
 
I see, but how long until Arabic Script is adopted to write other languages?

This could happen, especially in an environment that favors innovation.

However - iOTL im only aware of two "major" scripts emerging from the Mande languages, the Vai script and the Nko alphabet (Links are wiki). Both seemed to have emerged rather late though. So i dont think it would an automatic development
 
This could happen, especially in an environment that favors innovation.

However - iOTL im only aware of two "major" scripts emerging from the Mande languages, the Vai script and the Nko alphabet (Links are wiki). Both seemed to have emerged rather late though. So i dont think it would an automatic development
Yes, they were developed in response to French as sustained major contact with the world at large emerged, a more influential Arabic Script would elicit a similar response earlier. The Djeli esp. would be strong supporters of such.
 
Yes, they were developed in response to French as sustained major contact with the world at large emerged, a more influential Arabic Script would elicit a similar response earlier. The Djeli esp. would be strong supporters of such.

Great input. Im sure we will make this happen :)

Also clearly there might develop a strong Arabic dialect, if the language comes into wider use. We might get as far as a Creole Arabic...
 
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Well, Sufism definitely played a huge role in West African Islam OTL. On the university point: Sufi brotherhoods aren't really dependent on universities. What you mainly need are localized shrines, people who want to take pilgrimages to those shrines, and Sufi orders that can maintain the pilgrimage routes.

As a side note: the irony, given the role the Saudis have played in spreading a decidedly, ahem, non-Sufi brand of Islam in the twentieth century, is that, before about 1800, most Muslims got Sufism because of the hajj. The Sufi brotherhoods ran most of the hostelries on the way to Mecca, so incoming pilgrims who wanted to bring back the "latest teachings from Mecca" usually ended up with a lot of Al-Ghazali's work. If I ever do an early modern Islam TL, probably the single biggest butterfly I can imagine is for the followers of Wahhab not to get Mecca in the early 1800s. Brief though that occupation was, it was very consequential in a couple of places.

Anyway, even without Mukhtar, Sufism in Mali is likely. Given what Ibn Chaldun has hinted at re: Mukhtar's background, I think it's very plausible.
well won't mali isolation caused Sufism here to start to develop on different and how do you plan on developing mali coastal regions like they were in the dying days of the Mali empire with the Portugal to side step soghina control of the trans-Saharan trade. Also why would arabic devolp as the lanauge for the elites why wouldn't they devolp there own?
 
well won't mali isolation caused Sufism here to start to develop on different and how do you plan on developing mali coastal regions like they were in the dying days of the Mali empire with the Portugal to side step soghina control of the trans-Saharan trade. Also why would arabic devolp as the lanauge for the elites why wouldn't they devolp there own?

Couple of notes: Mali is not isolated like the new world for example. There is frequent trade and travel through the Sahara. This way ideas are brought in and out, especially as Mukhtar already laid the foundation for an influential madrasah in Timbuktu.
Also Sufism can not be seen an organized branch of Islam. Speaking of an organized "Sufi denomination" comparable to Sunni/Shia/Ibadi, please apologize my bluntness, makes absolutely no sense. Clearly we will see a new influential Tariqa being founded though, and this Tariqa will of course diverge from other orders. They will still stay Sunni Muslims of Maliki juresprudence though.

Regarding coastal development : You keep asking questions whose answers would be massive spoilers haha. Not gonna comment on that that one.

A really fantastic start and fascinating story.

Thanks for the kind words and the likes :)
 
don't know if you noticed but in the table of contents, it says there a fourth update when you click on it nothing happens?
 
This could happen, especially in an environment that favors innovation.

However - iOTL im only aware of two "major" scripts emerging from the Mande languages, the Vai script and the Nko alphabet (Links are wiki). Both seemed to have emerged rather late though. So i dont think it would an automatic development

Adopting scripts to use for x language that was originally used for y language is a pretty common thing; see the numerous latin-based scripts from small or regional languages or for vernaculars, Arabic for Turkish/Persian/Malay(and for some West African languages), the use of Cyrillic for Mongolian and other languages. I could very easily see a kind of Chancery Mandinke written in Arabic
 
Sorry about the delay.
Ive been quite busy recently and the Chapter I had already written was pretty sub-standard honestly.

Adopting scripts to use for x language that was originally used for y language is a pretty common thing; see the numerous latin-based scripts from small or regional languages or for vernaculars, Arabic for Turkish/Persian/Malay(and for some West African languages), the use of Cyrillic for Mongolian and other languages. I could very easily see a kind of Chancery Mandinke written in Arabic

Yes, this clearly is an option, but im gotta double check if its possible to write Manding in Arabic without major adjustments. For the moment, im gonna stick with the use of Arabic for government purposes because of the muli-ethnic character of the realm.


Regarding the question by @Wolttaire where i got the idea from, Mali always was one of my favorites since I heard about the legend of Abubakari - and well. Sub-Saharan Africa does not get a lot of love on this board ;)


Gonna publish an updated version of chapter 4 today.



Edit: Also changed formatting of previous chapters for easier reading.
 
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4. War
Chapter IV — War

As the Army was shipping down the Bakoye [1], more and more petty chiefs saw its strength and decided to join ranks in order to prevent any later repercussion. Soon Oualis scouts returned and reported that Musa's troops were marching up the same river – right towards the royal army. Around 50,000 men, predominatly infantry, they estimated.
This army was no match for what Ouali had. While his footmen numbered around the same, they generally had better training. And – he controlled the Imperial Mandekalu Cavalry. Ten thousand men with lance, sword and many even with armor [2]. South of the desert, these horsemen had no one to fear in open terrain.

They can not win” Ouali said to Mukhtar and Salif after hearing the news, “their troops are not organized, they are tired from marching and they have nothing to counter our cavalry”.
They will scatter like chicken” Salif agreed.
Musa Keita, as a surviving officer of his’ later told Mukhtar, knew where his opponents were, but yet marched straight for them. Mukhtar theorized that the rebellion was primarily led by group of tribal leaders from the west and that Musa only was their puppet.

The battle itself, on a plain near the Bakoye, went as expected. The cavalry made quick work of the unorganized rebel army. Without any resources left, the remaining renegade nobles including Musa were fleeing west.

***

With the Civil War ended before it really began, Ouali could deal with the real danger to the realm. Messengers had been coming from Timbuktu for quite a while. Mossi Bands kept crossing into the Malian territory. They were assaulting caravans, burning down villages and abducting the inhabitants. While the big cities like Gao or Timbuktu were well protected by their garrisons, smaller places were under serious threat. The garrisons could not do a lot to defend them, it was a cat-and mouse game the Mande generally lost. When the garrisons arrived at the place of a raid., the Mossi already were gone again.
If that was not enough, the Songhai in the Bend [4] were close to rebellion, supported by groups further from the East. Apparently, these foreign rulers were not even able to protect their people. So why should they live under the Mande's rule?

When Ouali arrived in Gao with his cavalry, the first thing he did was to call a meeting with the leading Songhai nobles. Since he still enjoyed a certain degree of respect among them due to his just and merciful rule, when he was Governor of Gao back then, they actually came.
“You believe in God – and we do. The Mossi do not. We have to stand together against the pagans
”, was his core argument. The leader of the Songhai, Sunni Ali Kolun, still wanted his own kingdom, but realized that he could not compete against the garrisons still present and the royal cavalry. So the meeting fulfilled its purpose to calm the Songhai.

When the infantry finally arrived, the momentum changed. The Ouali the Mossi were about to face different than the Ouali the West had seen. Too long the Mossi chiefs had haunted the royal caravans. Trade was the fabric the empire was built on, and everyone endangering it would find no mercy. Ouali took his massed forces, a little above 60.000 infantry and close to 10.000 horsemen south into their territory. Thee Mossi were not a unified state, rather their petty kingdoms were squabbling among themselves. Split into several columns the Mande forces passed the borderlands and systematically annihilated every village and every town they came across. Everything that moved was either killed or captured and enslaved. On some occasions local Mossi coalitions tried to make a stand. Fighting was fierce, but not even once they came close to being a danger. Ouali quickly figured out how to counter their cavalry with disciplined spear formations.

When the Mansa personally left command by the end of 1313 many Mossi groups had fled far to the east to evade the Mansa’s bloody wrath. Those who were foolish enough to stay would soon follow their brethren into slavery.

***
As Mukhtar and Salif arrived in Tekrur, there was little to do except mopping up a few local rebel strongholds left, assuming control over a few major villages and searching for the fugitive Musa. The latter was rather easy though. Soon after they arrived in the region, most of Musa's remaining officers approached the army and handed Salif – the official commander – a blood soaked bag. Inside, there was Musa's severed head. The men knew everything was lost and tried to save their life, Salif concluded.

Unfortunately for them, he was a soldier through and through and despised nothing more than disloyalty: They were executed for treason. With these officers, the last influential members of the Keita clan had died.
The remaining campaign went swift and in the summer of 1313 the army took the last settlement and afterwards many of the army's soldiers where settled in Tekrur, both to strengthen the royal influence and to promote Islam in the majority pagan province. Mukhtar also decided to send some of his best students there in order to help with the conversion of the locals. All these steps led to a closer oversight of the region by the mansa.

With the provinces directly under the control of Ouali and his loyalists, he and Mukhtar finally could implement all their reforms.

*****

[1] Senegal River, gonna use Manding names from now on when appropriate.
[2] Around the town of Bakel IoTL
[4]Niger Bend
[5] Niger River. Again in Manding

I still really don't like writing about war. :D
 
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how do you plan solve the religious differences between the country and the cities

In OTL the Malian Implementation of Islam already was rather tolerant, almost syncretical at times. In TTL this characteristics will emerge even stronger through the soon to be established Sufi Order following the guidelines of Mukhtar.

However - paganism inside the realm will decline faster than in OTL.
Next chapter will be on the reforms and the chapter after that on how said reform change the realm. This chapter will subsequently have a major section dedicated to the religion issue.
 
In OTL the Malian Implementation of Islam already was rather tolerant, almost syncretical at times. In TTL this characteristics will emerge even stronger through the soon to be established Sufi Order following the guidelines of Mukhtar.

However - paganism inside the realm will decline faster than in OTL.
Next chapter will be on the reforms and the chapter after that on how said reform change the realm. This chapter will subsequently have a major section dedicated to the religion issue.
What about how the entire economy is devoted to slave and is there Achilles heal of there empire and is there anyway for them to stabilize there rivers so they are more stable and aren’t seasonal
 
What about how the entire economy is devoted to slave and is there Achilles heal of there empire and is there anyway for them to stabilize there rivers so they are more stable and aren’t seasonal

Rivers issue would be ASB imo. As long as they only use dugouts it shouldn’t be that much of an issue (Maybe on the upper quarter of the Sénégal, that might even fall dry completely)

Slaves so far are - economically speaking - not an archilles heel so far. Also I assume you overvalue the extent of slavery in Mali at the time.
It is already diverging a little ITTL, especially the rise of the Sofa happened a little earlier than IOTL.
However - continuing slaving culture will develop many downsides in the future, but slavery was pretty standard in this time and place and a abolist society in this situation would also be borderline ASB to me.

Well and I’m putting the slaves into relevant positions on purpose honestly...
 
The Inner Niger Delta floods and drains too dramatically over the seasons to be worth trying to tame and then maintain.
 
The Inner Niger Delta floods and drains too dramatically over the seasons to be worth trying to tame and then maintain.
Especially with 13th century technology. While the Macina region is indded quite wild, it is on the other hand also pivotal to the agricultural output of the region. This topic will be featured shortly in the next chapter.


what kind of feudalism will form in mali?

Well... Obviously we will see some kind of iqta. While there are clear similarities to feudalism i would not use that word as there are a lot of key differences.
 
Especially with 13th century technology. While the Macina region is indded quite wild, it is on the other hand also pivotal to the agricultural output of the region. This topic will be featured shortly in the next chapter.
Well... Obviously we will see some kind of iqta. While there are clear similarities to feudalism i would not use that word as there are a lot of key differences.
What about the sengal river and Gambia river are they stable or much more seasonal like the niger

iqta so should we see a different form from the rest of the Islamic world and especially because of the massive slave economy they have, exc, exc or will it be more alike then I think
 
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