TL-191: Yankee Joe - Uniforms, Weapons, and Vehicles of the U.S. Armed Forces

[Alterwright]

I mainly chalk it up to budget cuts and the depression with the government effectively gutting the military R&D budget, up until the Pacific War and even then.

Has for infantry machine guns I'd take it they'd be using something similar to the MG-13 or MG-30 during SGW.

Also any chance the US would have used female soldiers during the war, same has the Soviets with some rather renowned female snipers, pilots and tank drives.

Huh. Well an air-cooled system for sure! @cortz#9 might be up for making an LMG for the US Army that might not be based on a Browning design. Would be cool to see of course. Come to think of it we might see a different gun altogether despite it taking the same caliber round. Perhaps US soldiers would call their MGs a ".30 cal" but the design itself would be totally different.

As for female soldiers being in the US Army in TL-191, in frontline roles similar to the Soviets - no. Hard no, in my opinion.

Its not that I'm opposed to the idea and it would be fun to see, but even in TL-191 its hard to see American women being allowed to fight in that capacity. A lot of factors played into the decision for women in the Soviet Union to fight in frontline roles - political, social, military, all unique to Russia actually. In this world though even black men aren't allowed to fight in any serious capacity, either in the US and far less so in the CS, let alone women. Despite one instance of black men fighting for the CS of all things in the Great War, we may actually be looking at a time period where those kinds of social issues have been set back by decades.

Don't mean to dampen the optimism here, but other than auxiliary, clerical, medical and administrative roles behind the front lines, women in the US military would probably not see frontline line action. The only way I can see American women fighting is if they were in a guerrilla bands in Ohio or something. Despite socialist presidents in the US, that kind of thing would be hard sell for men in the military at this time.

 

[Gunman873]

Here are some ideas for a Northern infantry automatic rifle design:

Thompson's .30-06 prototype

Lewis Assault Phase models

Lewis Light Models

Johnston Model D-1918

Hotchkiss Portable: as Hotchkiss was an American, I dont see him leaving for France to follow a a firearms career and his designs stay in the US. He modernizes his WW1 version into either magazine fed or possible belt fed

Johnson 1941

 

[Alterwright]

Here are some ideas for a Northern infantry automatic rifle design:

Thompson's .30-06 prototype

Lewis Assault Phase models

Lewis Light Models

Johnston Model D-1918

Hotchkiss Portable: as Hotchkiss was an American, I dont see him leaving for France to follow a a firearms career and his designs stay in the US. He modernizes his WW1 version into either magazine fed or possible belt fed

Johnson 1941

The Johnson Rifle and its derivatives is appealing for me. It would be interesting to see these models have more of a presence in this timeline, a good what-if, butterfly effect where designs that didn't make the cut or were not used as much suddenly get prominent roles.

I'd personally go with some kind of alternate iteration of the Johnson Family of rifles for a US assault rifle candidate. It would probably not see much service if introduced, probably being issued to soldiers by May of 1944, but honestly there might be a possibility. With the amount of TARs the US Army has captured it would completely baffle me if they didn't decide to take notes and make their own design, kind like how the Germans captured SVT-40s to help make their G43 rifle.

 

[Father Maryland]

One of the things that still puzzles me is that in the TL 191 WW1 the US didn't make any domestic designs of fighter aircraft but just imported German designs and made them locally. Yet in WW2 the US produces it's own designs. I mean I understand why the US didn't have their own internally designed fighters in our WW1. We weren't involved for very long and adopted many allied weapon systems to speed up deployment. But in TL 191 the US is at war for what four years but with substantially less industrial/economic pressure then WW2. In WW1 most of the US's industry was pretty much untouched while in WW2 vast amounts were captured or destroyed either in the ground fighting or from air bombardment.

 

[Father Maryland]

Well I wouldn't they look "wealthy", but definitely more than a few anti-confederate partisans would be from a working-class, urban background. Either way, I get what you mean, and like the style here. From 1941-1943, I can definitely see small groups of anti-confederate partisans sprouting up in occupied Ohio, since it would really be the only state that would be fully occupied by the Confederates and Mexicans. There's parts of Pennsylvania, Indiana, and Michigan that might be occupied as well.

In either case we'll probably see armed bands of fighters resisting the Confederates. And I believe quite a few of them would be from a working-class background, some of them probably retired veterans, sporting clothing just like this, augmented by whatever weapons and gear they can find.

I think Northern Pennsylvania was the furthest north the Confederates reached with the battle of Pittsburgh being Stalingrad with a different name.

Though one thing that always bugs me about TL 191 is why the US never hung onto Northern Virginia until they won WW2.

 

[Alterwright]

I think Northern Pennsylvania was the furthest north the Confederates reached with the battle of Pittsburgh being Stalingrad with a different name.

Though one thing that always bugs me about TL 191 is why the US never hung onto Northern Virginia until they won WW2.

Right. And pretty much any state that the Confederates occupy would be a hotbed for partisan activities. Ohio more so than Pennsylvania in my opinion, but hey. Just my opinion. I see small unorganized bands in occupied Pennsylvania being more a thing given that the state was occupied for almost a year, but in Ohio I can see the groups being more organized seeing as though they were under occupation for a slightly longer period. Pennsylvania bands might take to the countrysides to hide out and strike at Confederate supply-lines most likely.

Ah, the case of Northern Virginia! A complicated one.

The USA was actually able to hold on to Northern Virginia. It took the territory north of the Rappahannock River after 1917 to give D.C. a buffer of land, but for the longest time the area was rife with anti-US, pro-Confederate activity. Hopes that Featherston would take it back Northern Virginia in a plebiscite in the 1930s were nothing but a false hope despite an intensely anti-US population. The place is well-fortified too, by both sides.

 

[Alterwright]

One of the things that still puzzles me is that in the TL 191 WW1 the US didn't make any domestic designs of fighter aircraft but just imported German designs and made them locally. Yet in WW2 the US produces it's own designs. I mean I understand why the US didn't have their own internally designed fighters in our WW1. We weren't involved for very long and adopted many allied weapon systems to speed up deployment. But in TL 191 the US is at war for what four years but with substantially less industrial/economic pressure then WW2. In WW1 most of the US's industry was pretty much untouched while in WW2 vast amounts were captured or destroyed either in the ground fighting or from air bombardment.

Uh... factories in the western states?

 

[Father Maryland]

Uh... factories in the western states?

Yes there would be industry in the Western US but the Eastern US would probably be more heavily industrialized like OTL.

 

[Polish Eagle]

Yes there would be industry in the Western US but the Eastern US would probably be more heavily industrialized like OTL.

Between militaristic Prussian Democrats and Socialists, it’s plausible that some war industries were directed to California through subsidies.

Besides, most of the US aviation giants IOTL were well outside the areas threatened by the Confederacy—either New York (Consolidated, Grumman, Republic) or California (Martin, Lockheed, Hughes, Douglas). The same market forces directing airplane manufacturers to those places probably work ITTL. Only McDonnell (of St. Louis) is in any danger of being overrun.

 

[cortz#9]

Huh. Well an air-cooled system for sure! @cortz#9 might be up for making an LMG for the US Army that might not be based on a Browning design. Would be cool to see of course. Come to think of it we might see a different gun altogether despite it taking the same caliber round. Perhaps US soldiers would call their MGs a ".30 cal" but the design itself would be totally different.

As for female soldiers being in the US Army in TL-191, in frontline roles similar to the Soviets - no. Hard no, in my opinion.

Its not that I'm opposed to the idea and it would be fun to see, but even in TL-191 its hard to see American women being allowed to fight in that capacity. A lot of factors played into the decision for women in the Soviet Union to fight in frontline roles - political, social, military, all unique to Russia actually. In this world though even black men aren't allowed to fight in any serious capacity, either in the US and far less so in the CS, let alone women. Despite one instance of black men fighting for the CS of all things in the Great War, we may actually be looking at a time period where those kinds of social issues have been set back by decades.

Don't mean to dampen the optimism here, but other than auxiliary, clerical, medical and administrative roles behind the front lines, women in the US military would probably not see frontline line action. The only way I can see American women fighting is if they were in a guerrilla bands in Ohio or something. Despite socialist presidents in the US, that kind of thing would be hard sell for men in the military at this time.

Some ideas I drew up for a US GPMG.

Tried to give them both a German and US look, I think the bottom comes closest to my original idea but I like the top one most but it looks too German at the same time, which is probably why I like it.

 

[RamscoopRaider]

One of the things that still puzzles me is that in the TL 191 WW1 the US didn't make any domestic designs of fighter aircraft but just imported German designs and made them locally. Yet in WW2 the US produces it's own designs. I mean I understand why the US didn't have their own internally designed fighters in our WW1. We weren't involved for very long and adopted many allied weapon systems to speed up deployment. But in TL 191 the US is at war for what four years but with substantially less industrial/economic pressure then WW2. In WW1 most of the US's industry was pretty much untouched while in WW2 vast amounts were captured or destroyed either in the ground fighting or from air bombardment.

I think it's because the German models were better, European air combat was more brutally darwinian than in North America, so Germany was spurred to develop faster. Remember Canada and the CSA aren't producing their own aircraft, so they get the latest and greatest aircraft after the UK and France have already using been them awhile, so the Germans have run into them first and already have a counter ready while the US is just starting to see those new aircraft. Quicker to import a German design that exists than to design an answer from scratch. And I think the US did use its own fighters at the start of WWI, I swear there was a mention of a US built pusher fighting scout

 

[pattontank12]

Some ideas I drew up for a US GPMG.

View attachment 414641
Tried to give them both a German and US look, I think the bottom comes closest to my original idea but I like the top one most but it looks too German at the same time, which is probably why I like it.

The first one looks like the most realistic and practical one to me.

I think it's because the German models were better, European air combat was more brutally darwinian than in North America, so Germany was spurred to develop faster. Remember Canada and the CSA aren't producing their own aircraft, so they get the latest and greatest aircraft after the UK and France have already using been them awhile, so the Germans have run into them first and already have a counter ready while the US is just starting to see those new aircraft. Quicker to import a German design that exists than to design an answer from scratch. And I think the US did use its own fighters at the start of WWI, I swear there was a mention of a US built pusher fighting scout

I think the best answer would be that the US used a combination of their own native designs and those imported from Germany. Some would obviously be better suited for certain roles over the other, which the US would use them for.

 

[Alterwright]

Any ideas for a US light-scout/utility/transport car? Of the Jeep, Kubelwagen, or Kurogane variety?

^^^ --- Type 95 "Kurogane"

^^^ --- Kubelwagen

^^^ --- Willys MB

Any ideas for a military car like these for the US Army?

 

[pattontank12]

This looks a lot like an early post First Great War uniform.

 

[cortz#9]

View attachment 414837
This looks a lot like an early post First Great War uniform.

It would make a good US uniform if the crown on the epaulets could be removed.

What would be the US equivalent of Panzer Grenadier?

 

[pattontank12]

It would make a good US uniform if the crown on the epaulets could be removed.

View attachment 414847

What would be the US equivalent of Panzer Grenadier?

Mobile infantry?

 

[pattontank12]

Not sure if this fits in the thread or not but it occurred to me Quebec's uniforms would resemble OTL Vichy French uniforms. Being a mix of OTL German/American and French influences. The German/American influences being obvious while also having purchased plenty of leftover French surplus from the First Great War.

 

[cortz#9]

Mobile infantry?

I thought about, has a very modern sound to though don't you think? I was thinking Motorized Dragoons but I don't like the way it rolls off the tongue.
How about Motorized Cavalry?

 

[Alterwright]

I thought about, has a very modern sound to though don't you think? I was thinking Motorized Dragoons but I don't like the way it rolls off the tongue.
How about Motorized Cavalry?

How about just good ol' "Mechanized Infantry"?

That's the equivalent to the Panzer-grenediers anyway.

 

[cortz#9]

How about just good ol' "Mechanized Infantry"?

That's the equivalent to the Panzer-grenediers anyway.

I suppose, its just when I hear the terms Mobile or Mechanized infantry, I see visions of desert Storm era soldiers. I think modern APC's, I don't know why, all the news footage I saw during the time I guess. You don't hear those terms when one watches WWII documentaries.