So, the Nikists are anti-Republic but might not necessarily be pro-monarchy. I suppose that's their main ideological difference from Roosevelt's National Corporatism?
Death of a Republic (A monarchical USA timeline)
- Thread starter Schnozzberry
- Start date
You say that infobox proves this isn't a dark timeline, yet it says that Hoover died in an internment camp.
Welp, I binge-read this, and I loved it! Kudos to you! As for the flag, would it have something to do with one of Spain's overseas colonies?
I was rereading this TL to get up to speed, and found that the May 25th, 2017 update isn’t threadmarked.
Schnozzberry
Gone Fishin'
Haha, the server is up when I'm not at work! Now I can respond to these questions.
Sort of. I can't really explain in detail for fear of giving away everything about what is going to happen in the [NUMBER REDACTED] American Civil War
Yes, although each of the subkingdoms operate a bit different; Louisiana for example is going to be a functionally titular entity while others will be operating fairly autonomously.
Yes. I'm basing at least a bit of how the USA goes kaput on the Russian Civil War and the hot mess of states and statelets that popped into and out of existence.
The main difference is that in theory National Corporatism is centered around ethnicity and doesn't require racial discrimination (ethnic discrimination on the other hand...), while in theory Nikism is centered on the state and requires racial/ethnic discrimination. Also in theory, National Corporatism can function in a relatively democratic state (somewhat like OTL's American South) while Nikism simply cannot.
In practice, both end up often doing the same thing.
Ido did have infoboxes that imply good things, but I had to make a joke about how nothing I've spoiled so far shows that.
Thanks! Glad you liked it! And now, it isn't related to a Spanish overseas colony.
Fixed, thanks!
Sort of. I can't really explain in detail for fear of giving away everything about what is going to happen in the [NUMBER REDACTED] American Civil War
Yes, although each of the subkingdoms operate a bit different; Louisiana for example is going to be a functionally titular entity while others will be operating fairly autonomously.
Yes. I'm basing at least a bit of how the USA goes kaput on the Russian Civil War and the hot mess of states and statelets that popped into and out of existence.
The main difference is that in theory National Corporatism is centered around ethnicity and doesn't require racial discrimination (ethnic discrimination on the other hand...), while in theory Nikism is centered on the state and requires racial/ethnic discrimination. Also in theory, National Corporatism can function in a relatively democratic state (somewhat like OTL's American South) while Nikism simply cannot.
In practice, both end up often doing the same thing.
I
Thanks! Glad you liked it! And now, it isn't related to a Spanish overseas colony.
Fixed, thanks!
Planet Seven
Schnozzberry
Gone Fishin'
Hello Everyone again, today I am trying something new again. While this timeline hasn't had a serious divergence in the sciences and tech yet, it will have serious divergences and I do intend to cover them. For these sections, I'm going to try something new: styling them in TTL's Wikipedia equivalent, The People's Encyclopedia or Peopedia for short. This update is just to sound out the feeling for it, and will probably be a tad rougher and shorter than any future updates.
Excerpt from: ETTS:uwc.ore.thepeoplesencyclopedia.iis/encyclopedia/ouranos/history
Naming Dispute
The name of Ouranos references the ancient Greek deity of the sky Ouranos, the father of Cronus and grandfather of Zeus.[32] The adjectival form of Ouranos is "Ouranon". Consensus on the name was not reached, and today the planet is often known by two other names in the Anglophonic Sphere: Georgium Sidus (George's Star) and Gilbertus Sidus (Gilbert's Star) in Great Britain and the United States respectively. Following discovery, Herschel was asked to "do the astronomical world the faver [sic] to give a name to your planet, which is entirely your own, [and] which we are so much obliged to you for the discovery of".[35] In response to this request, Herschel decided to name the object Georgium Sidus (George's Star), or the "Georgian Planet" in honour of his new patron, King George III.[36] He explained this decision in a letter to Joseph Banks:[31]
In the fabulous ages of ancient times the appellations of Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn were given to the Planets, as being the names of their principal heroes and divinities. In the present more philosophical era it would hardly be allowable to have recourse to the same method and call it Juno, Pallas, Apollo or Minerva, for a name to our new heavenly body. The first consideration of any particular event, or remarkable incident, seems to be its chronology: if in any future age it should be asked, when this last-found Planet was discovered? It would be a very satisfactory answer to say, 'In the reign of King George the Third'.
Herschel's proposed name was not popular outside Britain, and alternatives were soon proposed. Astronomer Jérôme Lalande proposed that it be named Herschel in honour of its discoverer, which has remained popular as a poetic name within the Francophonic Sphere.[37] In a March 1782 work, Bode proposed Uranus, the Latinized version of Ouranos.[38] Bode's proposal saw some support, however due to resistance from the Royal Society, the name failed to catch on and in the Anglophonic Sphere, Georgium Sidus remained dominant. [38] In the United States due to tensions with Great Britain during the Ohio War, the name Georgium Sidus became politically charged.[40] This led to the planet being called multiple names with Gilbertus Sidus initially being a satirical take on Georgium Sidus. By 1800, the alternative names had become entrenched in both the United Kingdom and United States. Outside of these two states, the name Ouranos eventually became widespread however the name would remain in dispute.[41] During the Revolutionary Era of the Union of Worker's Council Republics, Ouranos was called Wagenknecht after the leader of the 1919 Revolution and head of the Central Committee of the UWCR from 1919 to 1928, with the name being officially returned to Ouranos during the Purge of 1935. [48] In 1965, the 3rd Congress of International Astronomers in Siyugansin, Sequoyah would declare that Ouranos was the sole official name of the planet in English, which was rejected by the scientific establishment in Great Britain and the United States.[42][43][44]
Excerpt from: ETTS:uwc.ore.thepeoplesencyclopedia.iis/encyclopedia/ouranos/history
Naming Dispute
The name of Ouranos references the ancient Greek deity of the sky Ouranos, the father of Cronus and grandfather of Zeus.[32] The adjectival form of Ouranos is "Ouranon". Consensus on the name was not reached, and today the planet is often known by two other names in the Anglophonic Sphere: Georgium Sidus (George's Star) and Gilbertus Sidus (Gilbert's Star) in Great Britain and the United States respectively. Following discovery, Herschel was asked to "do the astronomical world the faver [sic] to give a name to your planet, which is entirely your own, [and] which we are so much obliged to you for the discovery of".[35] In response to this request, Herschel decided to name the object Georgium Sidus (George's Star), or the "Georgian Planet" in honour of his new patron, King George III.[36] He explained this decision in a letter to Joseph Banks:[31]
In the fabulous ages of ancient times the appellations of Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn were given to the Planets, as being the names of their principal heroes and divinities. In the present more philosophical era it would hardly be allowable to have recourse to the same method and call it Juno, Pallas, Apollo or Minerva, for a name to our new heavenly body. The first consideration of any particular event, or remarkable incident, seems to be its chronology: if in any future age it should be asked, when this last-found Planet was discovered? It would be a very satisfactory answer to say, 'In the reign of King George the Third'.
Herschel's proposed name was not popular outside Britain, and alternatives were soon proposed. Astronomer Jérôme Lalande proposed that it be named Herschel in honour of its discoverer, which has remained popular as a poetic name within the Francophonic Sphere.[37] In a March 1782 work, Bode proposed Uranus, the Latinized version of Ouranos.[38] Bode's proposal saw some support, however due to resistance from the Royal Society, the name failed to catch on and in the Anglophonic Sphere, Georgium Sidus remained dominant. [38] In the United States due to tensions with Great Britain during the Ohio War, the name Georgium Sidus became politically charged.[40] This led to the planet being called multiple names with Gilbertus Sidus initially being a satirical take on Georgium Sidus. By 1800, the alternative names had become entrenched in both the United Kingdom and United States. Outside of these two states, the name Ouranos eventually became widespread however the name would remain in dispute.[41] During the Revolutionary Era of the Union of Worker's Council Republics, Ouranos was called Wagenknecht after the leader of the 1919 Revolution and head of the Central Committee of the UWCR from 1919 to 1928, with the name being officially returned to Ouranos during the Purge of 1935. [48] In 1965, the 3rd Congress of International Astronomers in Siyugansin, Sequoyah would declare that Ouranos was the sole official name of the planet in English, which was rejected by the scientific establishment in Great Britain and the United States.[42][43][44]
Sequoyah seems to be the most internationally well-regarded of the American successor states. How much influence do Native Americans have over it?
Schnozzberry
Gone Fishin'
Sequoyah isnt so much internationally well-regarded, it's just the only N. American country store that point that wouldn't prompt a boycott or serious outrage for hosting the Congress because it had no serious disputes with anyone.
And the natives have a large portion of influence over Sequoyah, but Sequoyah is going to have a unique political system with a tricameral legislature.
@Schnozzberry
Have you decided where the US capital is? I'm thinking that it could stay in NYC since that's where it was when the timeline started. And enough time had passed by the time the chaos had died down that political inertia would likely result in them officially declaring New York City the permanent capital. The Southern States can't even say anything because their power is basically crippled at this point.
Have you decided where the US capital is? I'm thinking that it could stay in NYC since that's where it was when the timeline started. And enough time had passed by the time the chaos had died down that political inertia would likely result in them officially declaring New York City the permanent capital. The Southern States can't even say anything because their power is basically crippled at this point.
Only Panama can be the Capital of the AMERICAN EMPIRE!!!!!
The American Empire in question is going to lose chunks of the OTL United States territory. At very least New England and the Deep South. While it may compensate with other territories, like the entire Oregon territory, it's likely to be roughly the same size if not smaller than OTL.
That went right over my head. I just wanted the chance to discuss how American territory would evolve differently in this timeline.
I still think the age-old principle of "it's too much of a bother to change now" would likely keep the American capital in New York for the foreseeable future.
I asked in an earlier post if the American empire would have an eastern coastline, and Schnozz said Yes, and that Donald Trup would lead the new Democratic front, or something.
I never said that they'd lack and east coast. Just that it's canon that the Deep South and New England won't be part of America by the present. I'm also saying that apathy and having better issues to deal with would likely result in the capital staying in New York for convenience's sake.
Schnozzberry
Gone Fishin'
So, I somehow missed this discussion on the capital until now. So, instead of finishing the next main update, I made this short post about the capital. It has moved from NYC, but to a place that (despite joking about it earlier) makes sense only in this timeline.
"To hold the heart is to hold the nation."
--Thande, user of ETTS:dix.naf.speculativehistory.iis
The largest city in the United States, New York, had served the longest as America's capital city and by 1791, many believed that New York City would remain America's capital city. However, a number of issues stood in the way of a continued New York capital. First and most easily rectified was the fact that the building in which Congress met, Federal Hall, was also the meeting place of the New Yorker legislature and both governments were forced into an odd arrangement of sharing the building that caused disgruntlement amongst both legislatures. The second issue, and arguably the issue that actually led to the change, was the fact that the choice capital wasn't well liked by any of the main political factions; Federalists wanted a more central capital to assist with administration, Confederationalists disliked the idea of a single state dominating the national capital, and Republicans wanted the capital to be near a Republican state.
What actually prompted the change was the fact that New York State wasn't actually as stable as might have been gathered at first glance. New York's existence as a monarchist state was less a product of the will of the people of New York and more a product of the compromise that saw the establishment of the State of Hudson. New York itself was predominately republican; the origin of the white-black-red Republican tricolor was New York City after all, but a reactionary backlash had seen the apparatus of state be seized by staunch monarchists. In August, 1791, tensions between the monarchist government and republican populace would rise rapidly until August 27th when a Republican protest escalated into a full out riot which saw an attempt by seven Republicans wearing Republican cockades storm Federal Hall. While the attempt failed, it did shake Congress into action.
The actual question of where the capital should be was quite contentious. While it was quickly decided that the capital would be on the border of a republican and monarchist state as a compromise between republicans and monarchists, little else could be agreed upon. Republicans wanted the capital in relatively republican north, Federalists a capital along the Maryland- Pennsylvania border. Southerners wanted a more southern capital but little serious thought was given to what the Southerners wanted, the first of many slights that led to Dixite Nationalism. Prince Gilbert wasn't particularly picky about where the capital was, being more concerned that the relationship between the American capital and America didn't devolve into a situation akin to Paris and France's relationship. The Directors Adams both wanted capitals that supported the other, John Adams wanted republican Philadelphia to become the capital while Samuel Adams wanted monarchist Boston to be the capital. In the end, in the spring of 1792, the location was chosen.
The location was a chunk of land that was disputed between the two new states of Lenape and Berkeley. Dubbed the Jerseys solution, it is unknown who actually came up with the solution however a common story is that Alexander Hamilton, during a fevered state brought on by a bought of the flu, proclaimed "Jersey is the key" when asked what his opinion on the matter was by his son. Regardless of the accuracy of this story, the disputed chunk of land, centered on the town of Rumson, was of an appropriate size (84 square miles), in between a republican and monarchist state, and possessed both an agreeable climate and was already to some degree frequented by naval commerce. And so, while it wasn't anyone's first choice, the territory in dispute would be bought from both Berkeley and Lenape by the Federal government and so the Federal District of Washington was established on July 4th 1792.
While it wouldn't be until 1801 that the last trappings of the federal government would move to Washington, the town of Rumson would often find itself inundated with visitors to and residents of the "new capital," leading to tensions between Rumson and the Federal government. On October 1", 1795, the residents of Rumson finally had enough and in a farcical move, declared themselves “The Republic of Rumson," proclaiming their secession from the Union, expelling the "ruffian" Americans who were causing problems in the small town. Little did the citizens of Rumson know that their farcical republic would become all too real in the years to come.
"To hold the heart is to hold the nation."
--Thande, user of ETTS:dix.naf.speculativehistory.iis
The largest city in the United States, New York, had served the longest as America's capital city and by 1791, many believed that New York City would remain America's capital city. However, a number of issues stood in the way of a continued New York capital. First and most easily rectified was the fact that the building in which Congress met, Federal Hall, was also the meeting place of the New Yorker legislature and both governments were forced into an odd arrangement of sharing the building that caused disgruntlement amongst both legislatures. The second issue, and arguably the issue that actually led to the change, was the fact that the choice capital wasn't well liked by any of the main political factions; Federalists wanted a more central capital to assist with administration, Confederationalists disliked the idea of a single state dominating the national capital, and Republicans wanted the capital to be near a Republican state.
What actually prompted the change was the fact that New York State wasn't actually as stable as might have been gathered at first glance. New York's existence as a monarchist state was less a product of the will of the people of New York and more a product of the compromise that saw the establishment of the State of Hudson. New York itself was predominately republican; the origin of the white-black-red Republican tricolor was New York City after all, but a reactionary backlash had seen the apparatus of state be seized by staunch monarchists. In August, 1791, tensions between the monarchist government and republican populace would rise rapidly until August 27th when a Republican protest escalated into a full out riot which saw an attempt by seven Republicans wearing Republican cockades storm Federal Hall. While the attempt failed, it did shake Congress into action.
The actual question of where the capital should be was quite contentious. While it was quickly decided that the capital would be on the border of a republican and monarchist state as a compromise between republicans and monarchists, little else could be agreed upon. Republicans wanted the capital in relatively republican north, Federalists a capital along the Maryland- Pennsylvania border. Southerners wanted a more southern capital but little serious thought was given to what the Southerners wanted, the first of many slights that led to Dixite Nationalism. Prince Gilbert wasn't particularly picky about where the capital was, being more concerned that the relationship between the American capital and America didn't devolve into a situation akin to Paris and France's relationship. The Directors Adams both wanted capitals that supported the other, John Adams wanted republican Philadelphia to become the capital while Samuel Adams wanted monarchist Boston to be the capital. In the end, in the spring of 1792, the location was chosen.
The location was a chunk of land that was disputed between the two new states of Lenape and Berkeley. Dubbed the Jerseys solution, it is unknown who actually came up with the solution however a common story is that Alexander Hamilton, during a fevered state brought on by a bought of the flu, proclaimed "Jersey is the key" when asked what his opinion on the matter was by his son. Regardless of the accuracy of this story, the disputed chunk of land, centered on the town of Rumson, was of an appropriate size (84 square miles), in between a republican and monarchist state, and possessed both an agreeable climate and was already to some degree frequented by naval commerce. And so, while it wasn't anyone's first choice, the territory in dispute would be bought from both Berkeley and Lenape by the Federal government and so the Federal District of Washington was established on July 4th 1792.
While it wouldn't be until 1801 that the last trappings of the federal government would move to Washington, the town of Rumson would often find itself inundated with visitors to and residents of the "new capital," leading to tensions between Rumson and the Federal government. On October 1", 1795, the residents of Rumson finally had enough and in a farcical move, declared themselves “The Republic of Rumson," proclaiming their secession from the Union, expelling the "ruffian" Americans who were causing problems in the small town. Little did the citizens of Rumson know that their farcical republic would become all too real in the years to come.
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Will "Washington" become the official name of the capital while "Fair Haven" becomes a somewhat rebellious unofficial name? Something like the situation with Ho Chi Minh City/Saigon?
EDIT: And now that the federal government has begun paying states... What is its plan to handle the states' wartime debts?
EDIT: And now that the federal government has begun paying states... What is its plan to handle the states' wartime debts?
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