Basically when Austria became a nation. Even then Austrians identified themselves as German relative to the non-German speaking populations, but they were Austrians first. The collapse/increasing irrelevance of the HRE, when the Duke/King of Austria was ruler of Austria first and foremost, that being his most important title and position; that would be the first step.
I'd think it was a gradual process, beginning when Austria was forced out of the German Confederation, increasing as Austrian German began to diverge from that of Kleindeutschland and as Vienna became a very distinct cultural center rivalled on the Continent only by Paris. Later the political movements in Austria after the Empire is abolished and the defeat of the Nazis further fuel that. National identities don't emerge overnight, after all.
If you are aware the POD comes after 1900 you need to post your threads over on the post 1900 board. Not everyone wants to discuss WW2 on this board when we have another that is for doing that.But even so right after WW1 Austria wanted to join a defeated germany. i would think the creation of an austrian national identity accelerated after the 1940s. I mean you can identity yourself as an austrian and still be a german just like a saxon and a bavarian who have different regional cultures still call themselves german.
If you are aware the POD comes after 1900 you need to post your threads over on the post 1900 board. Not everyone wants to discuss WW2 on this board when we have another that is for doing that.
If you are aware the POD comes after 1900 you need to post your threads over on the post 1900 board. Not everyone wants to discuss WW2 on this board when we have another that is for doing that.
I will say that was a gradual process between the creation of the German Empire and WW2
It was a gradual process and along the way the meaning of German shifted a bit as well, since the current Germany was a deliberate Kleindeutschland (Lesser Germany) to exclude Austria, Prussia's greatest potential rival. 1918, certainly post the treaty of Saint Germain (-en-Laye, 1919) would be a period, where this idea would have become more popular again, since Austria went from an Empire to a much smaller Republic, which must have an impact too. The period 1945 (2nd Austrian Republic with Allied and Soviet occupation)-1955 (recognized as an independent country again with a neutral status) finally laid this issue to bed.Austrians saw themselves as distinct as the Bavarians or Prussians did. That is to say they recognized themselves as Austrians AND Germans at the same time. I think it's only very recently that they began to see themselves as Austrians and NOT Germans, but that is basically because they were forced to.
Never.. They are Austrian Germans
Ww2, hurt things though
Austrian who hold that view are nearly exclusively German nationalists, who in a modern context are at very least close to neo-nazis.Is that the point of view of an Austrian ? Because my few Austrian friends are all like "Yeah, we are close, but still not the same"
The political separation between the state of Austria and the state of Germany has gradually created a distinction in nationality, but i would not expect that to erase completely the common ethnic identity.
One might compare it to other ethnicities which are disjoint with nationality. There are millions of people of Russian nationality, some for hundreds of years, who are not ethnic Russians. Do the grecophone people of Cyprus consider themselves "Greeks"?
I would also note that creation of a political entity can foster a distinct identity. When the League of Nations established the mandatory territory of Palestine, the Arab population convened a "Palestine Arab Congress" in response (this was in 1919-1921).
I have one data point on this. About ten years ago, I toured Italy with some friends. We visited Capri, and were guided around the island by a young woman from Austria, who was married to a local. Late in the warm day, she spoke of having a drink when she got home. "I'm a German, I drink a nice blond beer."
Uh, no. As an Austrian, living in Austria I can't say that that's been my experience. We are talking group identity here, not shared history and language.exactly.. I'm not saying that Austrians are German as in from the state of germany.. but they are and consider themselves "german" they just choose not to be in the same house, since nationalists destroyed that during WW II. so they choose to have separate houses, which in turn spurs its own national identity.
My point was and is that up until wwii most Austrians considered then selves German.. Not as in Germany as in what is Germany anyways.. There was ausrro Hungarian and German states . This conversation is a tad odd.One data point, anecdotal, and without knowing the woman in question or the exact situation I'd assume her to be joking. What kind of "blond beer" was she talking about? The translations there aren't all that exact, nor would I assume her to know them offhand. If it's a Weißbier, that's associated with Bavaria...
Uh, no. As an Austrian, living in Austria I can't say that that's been my experience. We are talking group identity here, not shared history and language.