Medieval America Mark III

[tehskyman]

I know we won't get to it for a very long time (if ever in this version maybe mark 4 will get there) but my thoughts keep coming back to South Africa, Australia and New Zealand as fascinating examples in a neo medieval world.

South Africa on the most part would revert to pre-european tribes duking it out but the western cape would probably be home to small nation or two. It would be basically the most isolated civilization on the planet. Thousands of kilometers of tribal wilderness between it and the nearest civilization. It wouldn't revert to a nomadic state b/c 1. theres noone powerful enough to challenge them and 2. The Drakensburgs would shelter them from all but the most devoted army.

Australia is also interesting. You've got the coast which would maintain several maritime city states centered around Adelaide, Melbourne Sydney and Brisbane. You've got the south eastern interior which would maintain a nation. And then you've got a desert 1800km wide in the middle of the continent. And on the south western corner would be Perth. A corner of civilization sandwiched between thousands of kilometers of desert and ocean. All this nothing in an area the size of the lower 48.

And New Zealand. Britain but upside down? Probably not. There'd be significant polynesian influences.

Chile is also in a similar situation but it has neighbors. Argentina/Uruguay/Brazil would be over the andes and across a relatively small plain. Peru is just a 1700 km boat trek along the atacama coast. But the Inca did it so I don't think that Chile would be as isolated. But still. These nations would be so interesting as places without advanced civilization prior to european colonization

All these isolated outposts of civilization. Thousands of Kilometers from anyone else worth taking about. Staring out to sea and sometimes starting at the desert and Savannah inland. It's possible that some of these places would regress to tribalism with a single disaster. New Zealand and the Western Cape would be the most likely to do so but Australia I suspect is just large enough that if one city were to fall to anarchy, the others would fill the gap. I don't think that maybe aside from Viking Greenland and Vinland has a civilization ever been so isolated. But greenland and iceland were icy wastes. These are subtropical forests.

 

[HonestAbe1809]

I know we won't get to it for a very long time (if ever in this version maybe mark 4 will get there) but my thoughts keep coming back to South Africa, Australia and New Zealand as fascinating examples in a neo medieval world.

South Africa on the most part would revert to pre-european tribes duking it out but the western cape would probably be home to small nation or two. It would be basically the most isolated civilization on the planet. Thousands of kilometers of tribal wilderness between it and the nearest civilization. It wouldn't revert to a nomadic state b/c 1. theres noone powerful enough to challenge them and 2. The Drakensburgs would shelter them from all but the most devoted army.

Australia is also interesting. You've got the coast which would maintain several maritime city states centered around Adelaide, Melbourne Sydney and Brisbane. You've got the south eastern interior which would maintain a nation. And then you've got a desert 1800km wide in the middle of the continent. And on the south western corner would be Perth. A corner of civilization sandwiched between thousands of kilometers of desert and ocean. All this nothing in an area the size of the lower 48.

And New Zealand. Britain but upside down? Probably not. There'd be significant polynesian influences.

Chile is also in a similar situation but it has neighbors. Argentina/Uruguay/Brazil would be over the andes and across a relatively small plain. Peru is just a 1700 km boat trek along the atacama coast. But the Inca did it so I don't think that Chile would be as isolated. But still. These nations would be so interesting as places without advanced civilization prior to european colonization

All these isolated outposts of civilization. Thousands of Kilometers from anyone else worth taking about. Staring out to sea and sometimes starting at the desert and Savannah inland. It's possible that some of these places would regress to tribalism with a single disaster. New Zealand and the Western Cape would be the most likely to do so but Australia I suspect is just large enough that if one city were to fall to anarchy, the others would fill the gap. I don't think that maybe aside from Viking Greenland and Vinland has a civilization ever been so isolated. But greenland and iceland were icy wastes. These are subtropical forests.

Maybe the Mark IV thread would widen the view to the entire world once we've finished covering the rest of the United States. We've still got plenty of land east of the Mississippi to cover before that can happen.

I do like your ideas regarding these countries, though.

I'm personally looking forward to the next contribution to this thread.

 

[Zurirach Adankar]

Maybe the Mark IV thread would widen the view to the entire world once we've finished covering the rest of the United States. We've still got plenty of land east of the Mississippi to cover before that can happen.

I do like your ideas regarding these countries, though.

I'm personally looking forward to the next contribution to this thread.

Great. I haven't read the thread (But want to read it soon), but are there some thoughts about Europe in the new middle ages?

 

[tehskyman]

Honestly, my personal take on the Old World (Asia, Europe, North Africa, East Africa) is that with a return to the new medieval ages, those areas would return to their medieval versions. It's not interesting to write because it has happened before and there is ample information about these places. If you want medieval europe or medieval china or medieval japan etc, then this is not the place. The point of this thread and this collaborative exercise is to explore places where medieval history (or an advanced agricultural civilization) never occurred, where colonization and human migration and the columbian exchange have radically changed the people and the land.

This would basically encompass the "New World" i.e. Polynesia, Australlia, New Zealand, South Africa and the Americas.

Great. I haven't read the thread (But want to read it soon), but are there some thoughts about Europe in the new middle ages?

Don't hold your breath about reading the world outside of America. We're slowly grinding away at the Eastern US and that will take quite some time, even though much of the groundwork has already been done. Once America is done, a lot of thought and research will have to be done on Latin America to keep the quality of those entries as high as possible.

 

[Flashman]

Here There Be Monsters: The Dogman

It is a cold, snowy night in the woods of Minnesota. A convoy of Truckers have encamped at an old truck stop. In the distance the Mall of America looms, the greatest fort and bazaar this side of the Mississippi, said to be the point that marks the end of the feudal core and the beginning of the wild plains. When the Cowboy hordes come calling, or the Kanadi raiders descend from their malls, it is the first line of defense for Wisconsin.

Normally, truck stops like this would be full of dozens of convoys. Not now: in the winter season, no trucker would want to be caught dead around the Great Lakes. All fur trapping and trading comes to a halt as people buckle down to survive the harsh season. Most convoys try to get to more southerly climes by this time of year, but this clan has been trapped in the wilds of Minnesota.

They huddle around their bonfire, miserably. In the distance, they hear the howls of a pack of wolves. They huddle in a little bit closer. One man, an older Trucker, chimes in with the tale of the Dogman.

The Dogman has been seen roaming from the north of Michigan to the fabled lands of Laska, but nowhere more then in the region in and around Lake Superior. The creature is said to walk on its hind legs, like a man, and yet it has the body, the face, the teeth of a dog. They are just as cunning as any man, and they lead packs of wild wolves.

Sources vary as to where the Dogman comes from. Some tales say that when civilization collapsed, the millions of domestic dogs that escaped bred with wild packs of coyotes and grey wolves, and what resulted was this horrific hybrid abomination. Others claim that this beast is one in the same as the werewolf of legend. There are those that blame "nuclear waste", whatever that is.

Our Truckers tells a different tale. He tells his convoy that long ago, this land was inhabited by the Indian, a primordial race that today survives only in the west. When the white man came, they wiped them out, This much anyone knows. He speaks of one white man, a soldier named Custer, who was particularly brutal in his conduct, massacring entire convoys of natives and feeding still breathing men, women and children to his packs of rabid dogs. One day, Custer was bested not too far from where this tale was told today. As he was dying, a shaman of the Indians cursed him to wander the earth as a Skinwalker in the form of a half dog, half man. The miserable Custer is still trapped in this body, and he leads his pack of rabid dogs to kill the white man, as punishment for their transgression.

A wolf cries in the distance.

 

[tehskyman]

wait but custer died in montana

 

[Flashman]

wait but custer died in montana

This is just one mans take on the story, likely influenced in character by Kanadi versions.

 

[HonestAbe1809]

wait but custer died in montana

This is just one mans take on the story, likely influenced in character by Kanadi versions.

Makes me wonder how many other historical figures got turned into myths by the damage to the historical record that the nine centuries since the Regression.

 

[Deleted member 82792]

Here There Be Monsters: The Dogman

It is a cold, snowy night in the woods of Minnesota. A convoy of Truckers have encamped at an old truck stop. In the distance the Mall of America looms, the greatest fort and bazaar this side of the Mississippi, said to be the point that marks the end of the feudal core and the beginning of the wild plains. When the Cowboy hordes come calling, or the Kanadi raiders descend from their malls, it is the first line of defense for Wisconsin.

Normally, truck stops like this would be full of dozens of convoys. Not now: in the winter season, no trucker would want to be caught dead around the Great Lakes. All fur trapping and trading comes to a halt as people buckle down to survive the harsh season. Most convoys try to get to more southerly climes by this time of year, but this clan has been trapped in the wilds of Minnesota.

They huddle around their bonfire, miserably. In the distance, they hear the howls of a pack of wolves. They huddle in a little bit closer. One man, an older Trucker, chimes in with the tale of the Dogman.

The Dogman has been seen roaming from the north of Michigan to the fabled lands of Laska, but nowhere more then in the region in and around Lake Superior. The creature is said to walk on its hind legs, like a man, and yet it has the body, the face, the teeth of a dog. They are just as cunning as any man, and they lead packs of wild wolves.

Sources vary as to where the Dogman comes from. Some tales say that when civilization collapsed, the millions of domestic dogs that escaped bred with wild packs of coyotes and grey wolves, and what resulted was this horrific hybrid abomination. Others claim that this beast is one in the same as the werewolf of legend. There are those that blame "nuclear waste", whatever that is.

Our Truckers tells a different tale. He tells his convoy that long ago, this land was inhabited by the Indian, a primordial race that today survives only in the west. When the white man came, they wiped them out, This much anyone knows. He speaks of one white man, a soldier named Custer, who was particularly brutal in his conduct, massacring entire convoys of natives and feeding still breathing men, women and children to his packs of rabid dogs. One day, Custer was bested not too far from where this tale was told today. As he was dying, a shaman of the Indians cursed him to wander the earth as a Skinwalker in the form of a half dog, half man. The miserable Custer is still trapped in this body, and he leads his pack of rabid dogs to kill the white man, as punishment for their transgression.

A wolf cries in the distance.

Nice story. Can you tell us more about the Truckers?

 

[Deleted member 82792]

Are there any cultures that worship Marvel or DC superheroes?

 

[KeeCoyote]

Well some of the Marvel and DC superheroes are actual gods. So would not be surprised.

 

[Flashman]

The History of Kuluradu

It could be said that for a land that is generally held to be among the noblest and most learned kingdoms of Medieval America has a shameful past. It arose from a revolt in the Florence Supermax Prison launcehd by the Islamic fundamentalists imprisoned there fairly early on in the regression. Operating the supermax as a fort, they used it to launch attacks on the eight other prisons of Fremont County, liberating sympathetic Nation of Islam members imprisoned add using the prisons as forts. From there, the extremists conquered Florence, Colorado, and then Canon City. A federal government with bigger fish to fry let them go about their business. Converts were made among the dhimmi, and within a few decades the first of the Great Jihads were launched.

The first city to fall to the Great Jihad was the city of Colorado Springs, followed by Westcliffe, Pueblo and Park County. The Second Great Jihad, spurred by the arrival fo Muslim refugee from across the United States and Canada, would see the conquest of the vast San Luis Valley, and the crowning of the first Caliph of Kuluradu in the newly renamed Colorado Springs, now Osamabad. With the arrival of more and more refugees (most notably those that fled persecutions in Dearborn, Michigan) and more and more converts among the local populace, the Calpihate would grow to encompass the "Three Parks" (North, South and the Colrado headwaters in between) and the valleys of Gunnison, Uncompahgre, Grand and Roaring Forks. The Caliphate even held the ruins of Denver for a time. Walis were installed, and the Caliphate got down to business.

It was hoped that by controlling the headwaters of the Arkansas, the Rio Grande, the Colorado, and the North and South Plattes (collectively known as Al-Uyun- the Springs) the Caliphate could use them for rapid expansion across the continent. Indeed, the Caliphate had many early successes, beating back the forces of the New Mexicans and the Desereti when they came knocking.

The Caliphate would begin to run into trouble with the formation of the Cowboy hordes, especially groups like the Danvurs. Much of their territory in the low lands of Colorado were lost to the horsemen, with Osamabad and the Flwrnsa Vallery only being saved by the erection of a series of megalithic fortifications.

The Caliphate would collapse with the New Agers seizure of the San Luis Valley, losing one of its most important agricultural bases. Most of the Walis declared themselves independent Emirs, leaving the Caliph in control only of Osamabad and Flwrnsa.

 

[HonestAbe1809]

I'd personally love to see a map of the complicated present-day situation in the land of Kuluradu. That'd be interesting. I'm wondering how many of the post-Caliphate Emirs fell into Utah's sphere of influence.

Did the Muslims ban the speaking of English during their more religiously fundamentalist period in the beginning? I could see them eventually lifting that as they grow more moderate in their religious views, though that may vary by the temperament of the ruler. I could see some of the post-Caliphate leaders being more conservative and fundamentalist than others. Lack of religious fervor could be the excuse some of the Walis chose as their reason why they abandoned the weak Caliphate at the end. Religious disputes would tear Kuluradu apart like they tore the Middle East Apart.

What happened to the just over one hundred thousand Jews who lived in Colorado?

 

[Flashman]

I'd personally love to see a map of the complicated present-day situation in the land of Kuluradu. That'd be interesting. I'm wondering how many of the post-Caliphate Emirs fell into Utah's sphere of influence.

Currently working on it.

Did the Muslims ban the speaking of English during their more religiously fundamentalist period in the beginning? I could see them eventually lifting that as they grow more moderate in their religious views, though that may vary by the temperament of the ruler.

Eh, it's possible, but more then likely they wold just follow the normal protocol when it comes to dhimmi: you're allowed to speak your tongue and worship your gods, but the language of law and commerce is Arabic.

I could see some of the post-Caliphate leaders being more conservative and fundamentalist than others. Lack of religious fervor could be the excuse some of the Walis chose as their reason why they abandoned the weak Caliphate at the end. Religious disputes would tear Kuluradu apart like they tore the Middle East Apart.

I did imagine things getting rather decadent in Colorado Springs.

What happened to the just over one hundred thousand Jews who lived in Colorado?

Most saw the writing on the wall and fled to the Jewish communities in New York or, more likely considering the increasing difficulty of travel in the early Regression, to California... where they would promptly be presented with the choice to convert or be enslave, forcing the orthodox to flee to the Jeffsin Marches.

Of those that remained in Colorado, they were generally allowed to live as People of the Book like the Christians, most of the animosity over Israel being long forgotten.

 

[HonestAbe1809]

Currently working on it.

Nice. I'll be looking forward to it.

Eh, it's possible, but more then likely they wold just follow the normal protocol when it comes to dhimmi: you're allowed to speak your tongue and worship your gods, but the language of law and commerce is Arabic.

Are there any places where the "dhimmi" were able to overtake the Islamic rulers and install their own states? I'm thinking that a couple of the weaker Emirs could've ended up that way. At least some portions of the region were only kept pacified by the fact that their rulers had the might of the entire Caliphate to keep them down.

I did imagine things getting rather decadent in Colorado Springs.

I'm imagining that by the time of the fall of Kuluradu the Caliph's court would be pretty enthusiastically partaking in the sinful substances traded by the mountain people of Colorado.

Most saw the writing on the wall and fled to the Jewish communities in New York or, more likely considering the increasing difficulty of travel in the early Regression, to California... where they would promptly be presented with the choice to convert or be enslave, forcing the orthodox to flee to the Jeffsin Marches.

Of those that remained in Colorado, they were generally allowed to live as People of the Book like the Christians, most of the animosity over Israel being long forgotten.

Again, like I said above, the remaining Jews could take advantage of the weakness of one of the post-Caliphate Emirs to establish a small New Zion. Or one of the Emirs could encourage Jewish immigration to boost their population. I could see them potentially attracting "secret Jews" from California.

 

[Flashman]

Are there any places where the "dhimmi" were able to overtake the Islamic rulers and install their own states? I'm thinking that a couple of the weaker Emirs could've ended up that way.

That's what Colorodo is.

 

[HonestAbe1809]

That's what Colorodo is.

Is there any chance of any of the Coloradan city-states being Jewish or are they all that pseudo-Christian religion mentioned in the post on them?

 

[Flashman]

Is there any chance of any of the Coloradan city-states being Jewish or are they all that pseudo-Christian religion mentioned in the post on them?

All pseudo-CHRISTIAN. I think having another inexpicable religious minority state in the Rockies would stretch credulity too much. The closest one will get to New Zion is the Jeffsin Marches or Rockland County.

 

[HonestAbe1809]

All pseudo-CHRISTIAN. I think having another inexpicable religious minority state in the Rockies would stretch credulity too much. The closest one will get to New Zion is the Jeffsin Marches or Rockland County.

Yet another reason why I want to get on writing about the lands east of the Mississippi. I'd write about Rockland immediately but going straight to the East Coast would be jumping the gun.

 

[Flashman]

Yet another reason why I want to get on writing about the lands east of the Mississippi. I'd write about Rockland immediately but going straight to the East Coast would be jumping the gun.

Well, nobody wrote anything explicit about the Jews of Jeffsin or Beelem (an appropriately Biblical name). And the Californian crypto-Jew concept sounded rather fascinating.