AHC: European settler state in Asia

[Lucius Verus]

The Chinese imported tons of things besides silver and opium, including jade (from Central Asia). This did not result in any European settler colonies to farm rice (in high demand in the developed regions of China) or birds’ nest.

As with all things its a matter of relative demand, the Spanish settled/conquered numerous colonies for their silver exports, various kingdoms conquered/settled the East Indies for their spices among others, jade was valuable and the sources of it concentrated enough with an insatiable demand among Chinese nobles, merchants, and bureaucrats.

The question was how, for existing plantations secrecy wasn't a concern and there was an existing local labour pool. For Taiwan the natives were relatively sparse and it seems foolish to hire Chinese labourers that will inevitably reveal its presence to the mainland.

 

[Intransigent Southerner]

jade was valuable and the sources of it concentrated enough with an insatiable demand among Chinese nobles, merchants, and bureaucrats.

There was no demand-supply imbalance for jade in Early Modern China. Central Asia and Burma, as well as China itself, supplied more than enough jade.

 

[Lucius Verus]

There was no demand-supply imbalance for jade in Early Modern China. Central Asia and Burma, as well as China itself, supplied more than enough jade.

I suppose we'll have to dig into our sources then, I'll dredge up something in a few days.

 

[Clandango]

Considering the interest in so much of Asia was primarily that that had an enormous population to both buy European goods and to sell them spices, silks, ceramics, etc. I find it the reasoning to move there to be questionable. The sheer amount of time it would take to ship people around Africa would have been immense, and even if, say, India was completely empty and no one else tried to move in, it would still be leaving people in a strange environment of which they don't know the local crops, how to farm any European ones brought over, etc.

On a side note, we should probably stick to European when referring to the settlers, as Whites include Arabs, Kurds, Copts, Berbers, Azeri, Turds, Moroccoans, Persians, and various other groups. Though of course definitions changed over the years, and I imagine at one point they were differ some name like Sons of Ham or Shem and classified as being the same as Spaniards, southern Italians, etc. Religion, ethnicity, and linguistics around the Mediterranean has been somewhat fluid.

 

[Tripledot]

I can't believe no one has mentioned a surviving Kingdom of Jerusalem... While they may never constitute a majority, I could see European-descended and mixed people making up a sizable minority, not to mention those acculturated to Frankish culture.

 

[SeaBos]

What about Dokdo? Perhaps some European power takes the islands as a military bqse before growing into a mining town. In the modern day it is OTL Dokdo meets OTL Falklands.

 

[The Professor]

To fulfil the op criteria what's needed is a sparsely settled land (or land easily cleared of inhabitants) that's attractive to European settlers and accessible to them, coupled with a system that disenfranchises locals in favour of settlers.
Is there anywhere in Asia that fits that?

 

[kasumigenx]

To fulfil the op criteria what's needed is a sparsely settled land (or land easily cleared of inhabitants) that's attractive to European settlers and accessible to them, coupled with a system that disenfranchises locals in favour of settlers.
Is there anywhere in Asia that fits that?

Taiwan(formosa) and Hokkaido(ezo) are possible lands for that

 

[Intransigent Southerner]

What about Dokdo? Perhaps some European power takes the islands as a military bqse before growing into a mining town. In the modern day it is OTL Dokdo meets OTL Falklands.

Dokdo is a rock and uninhabitable if you’re not a seagull. The two people who live there are paid by the South Korean government.

 

[Philip]

What about Dokdo?

Way too small

 

[Timaeus]

I've created a Hispanic Republic of Hermosa, which is based on the premise that the Spaniards retained their portion of the island up until 1898 while the Dutch areas were occupied by the Chinese. Hermosa was then annexed by Magellanica as a result of the Spanish-American-Magellanican war and given independence in 1951, the island now being divided between ROC and Hermosa.

Where was the Philippines in all that?

 

[Zachariah]

To fulfil the op criteria what's needed is a sparsely settled land (or land easily cleared of inhabitants) that's attractive to European settlers and accessible to them, coupled with a system that disenfranchises locals in favour of settlers.
Is there anywhere in Asia that fits that?

Sarawak as well.

 

[Taloc13]

Considering the interest in so much of Asia was primarily that that had an enormous population to both buy European goods and to sell them spices, silks, ceramics, etc. I find it the reasoning to move there to be questionable. The sheer amount of time it would take to ship people around Africa would have been immense, and even if, say, India was completely empty and no one else tried to move in, it would still be leaving people in a strange environment of which they don't know the local crops, how to farm any European ones brought over, etc.

On a side note, we should probably stick to European when referring to the settlers, as Whites include Arabs, Kurds, Copts, Berbers, Azeri, Turds, Moroccoans, Persians, and various other groups. Though of course definitions changed over the years, and I imagine at one point they were differ some name like Sons of Ham or Shem and classified as being the same as Spaniards, southern Italians, etc. Religion, ethnicity, and linguistics around the Mediterranean has been somewhat fluid.

You are Greek I presume?

 

[kasumigenx]

Sarawak as well.

And Singapore.

 

[Masked Grizzly]

Sarawak as well.

Is it known how populated the rest of Borneo was in addition to Sarawak?

 

[Zachariah]

Is it known how populated the rest of Borneo was in addition to Sarawak?

No, not really. The inland tribes were rather isolated, so we don't have any real estimates for their population, any more than we do for the historical population of New Guinea. The population of coastal Borneo though, those areas controlled by the Bruneian Empire at the time of the Castilian War of 1578 (when the Spanish embarked on an expedition to conquer Borneo, but decided to withdraw and abandon their conquest in spite of having gone undefeated in battle, on account of suffering from cholera and/or dysentery outbreaks in their camp), was estimated at roughly 250-400K. Using that to try and get a rough estimate for the population of Borneo as a whole, it seems likely that the total population of Borneo in the late 16th century was comparable to that of contemporary Scotland, between 500-800K.

 

[RGB]

The Chinese imported tons of things besides silver and opium, including jade (from Central Asia). This did not result in any European settler colonies to farm rice (in high demand in the developed regions of China) or birds’ nest.

Leather, cattle, horses, steel/parts/tools, cheap textiles (from Kiakhta trade), furs (Canton trade). I think the "silver and opium" is only important in the case of very long distance oceanic freight where high profitability per tonne was really critical. On a smaller scale you could trade in a lot of things.

 

[Clandango]

You are Greek I presume?

I'm an ethnic Norwegian.

 

[Taloc13]

I'm an ethnic Norwegian.

Look at the highlighted bit again.

 

[Timaeus]

As with all things its a matter of relative demand, the Spanish settled/conquered numerous colonies for their silver exports, various kingdoms conquered/settled the East Indies for their spices among others, jade was valuable and the sources of it concentrated enough with an insatiable demand among Chinese nobles, merchants, and bureaucrats.

And yet ultimately, the Spaniards never really did much to actively settle here. Their goals in the East Indies were totally different from their goals in the New World: this land called the Philippines was not a New Spain to be settled, but an outpost to trade and missionary work in China. Also spices. The only ones who came here to live in the Philippines were soldiers and missionaries. And natives and Chinese people seemed to fill the labor pool well enough. Unless the Spaniards commit outright genocide (something contradictory to their goals of Christianizing the Orient), there is no reason for settlers to cross two oceans to settle in these malaria-ridden isles. I suspect it would be the same for a Spanish Formosa.