Washington Burns: A Story of Alternate America
- Thread starter Eckener
- Start date
Working on the next regular update (hope to have it out today or tomorrow!).
Also looking ahead into the future, and thought I'd get some input on what I've tentatively mapped out for the next few decades of this TL:
--- The (Federalist?) Presidency (1925-1931) ---
(1929 - Italian Civil War)
(1930 - UER Joins the Italian Civil War in June. By September, Prussia declares War)
--- The (Liberal?) Presidency (1931-1937) ---
Whoever wins, promises to keep America out of the war.
1932 - Spain invades UER. UK declares war on Prussia for violating neutrality.
1934 - Gibralter Incident, US ship sunk en route to Italy. War forced.
1935 - war scare with Imperial Mexico?
--- The (VP of Previous POTUS?) Presidency (1937-1943) ---
1937 - Prussia collapses in the fall. Cease fire in Italy and elsewhere signed.
1938 - Treaty of London signed, ending the Global War. Prussia annexed into UER. Discussions about possible Spanish annexation as well (country occupied mostly by US forces). Northern Italy joins the UER. Southern Italy remains separate Kingdom of Italy (to be renamed soon). Fate of the Vatican not yet settled. Pope currently residing in Brazil.
(1938 - tampa bay british lease expires)
1940 - 7th International Peace Council: establishes the Global Peace Council, a permanent organisation to replace the ad-hoc IPCs. Temporarily HQ’d in Geneva, Switzerland.
1942 - Treaty of Rome: Rome will become an independent city, HQ of the GPC, and the Pope will return and restore the Vatican. Northern and Eastern Spain will join the UER. Southwestern Spain remains in Monarchist control, and under temporary US occupation.
--- The (Federalist?) Presidency (1943-1949) ---
1943 - Revolution in Russia: Regency Council overthrown (Tsarina Charlotte died in ‘42). By the end of the year, Russia is declared a Federal Republic. Monarchist resistance is weak and breaks down by 1944.
1944 - establishment of the North American Trade Union, between the US, Borealia, Texas, California, and Mexico. Designed in large part to ease economic woes in Mexico and California. Victoria III dies. UK has a King for the first time in 103 years, William V.
1945 - America announces that it will pull troops out of spain by 1947. William V calls for a “reorganization of the Empire.”
1947 - amidst US withdrawal, “Free Spain” erupts into civil war between monarchists and conservative republicans. US says its mandate there is over, and calls on the other members of the GPC to assist. Spanish War begins. Some US troops remain in Gibraltar and Seville. Britain, Italy, the UER, Portugal, and Russia commit troops.
1948 - election dominated by the War in Spain.
--- The (Nationalist? ) Presidency (1949-1955) ---
1949 - First successful computer created in the UER
1952 - Treaty of Lisbon: Ends the civil war. Republic of Spain declared. Spanish king and royals go into exile in Corsica, welcomed by the Bourbon Court.
1953 - British Union of Nations established. Common link between the Dominions, now recognized as equals to Britain. Colonial Commission established to look into independence/dominionship for colonies.
--- The () Presidency (1955-1961) ---
1960 - First satellite launched (joint US-Texan venture)
--- The Georgina Lincoln (CPUS) Presidency (1961-1967) ---
Also looking ahead into the future, and thought I'd get some input on what I've tentatively mapped out for the next few decades of this TL:
--- The (Federalist?) Presidency (1925-1931) ---
(1929 - Italian Civil War)
(1930 - UER Joins the Italian Civil War in June. By September, Prussia declares War)
--- The (Liberal?) Presidency (1931-1937) ---
Whoever wins, promises to keep America out of the war.
1932 - Spain invades UER. UK declares war on Prussia for violating neutrality.
1934 - Gibralter Incident, US ship sunk en route to Italy. War forced.
1935 - war scare with Imperial Mexico?
--- The (VP of Previous POTUS?) Presidency (1937-1943) ---
1937 - Prussia collapses in the fall. Cease fire in Italy and elsewhere signed.
1938 - Treaty of London signed, ending the Global War. Prussia annexed into UER. Discussions about possible Spanish annexation as well (country occupied mostly by US forces). Northern Italy joins the UER. Southern Italy remains separate Kingdom of Italy (to be renamed soon). Fate of the Vatican not yet settled. Pope currently residing in Brazil.
(1938 - tampa bay british lease expires)
1940 - 7th International Peace Council: establishes the Global Peace Council, a permanent organisation to replace the ad-hoc IPCs. Temporarily HQ’d in Geneva, Switzerland.
1942 - Treaty of Rome: Rome will become an independent city, HQ of the GPC, and the Pope will return and restore the Vatican. Northern and Eastern Spain will join the UER. Southwestern Spain remains in Monarchist control, and under temporary US occupation.
--- The (Federalist?) Presidency (1943-1949) ---
1943 - Revolution in Russia: Regency Council overthrown (Tsarina Charlotte died in ‘42). By the end of the year, Russia is declared a Federal Republic. Monarchist resistance is weak and breaks down by 1944.
1944 - establishment of the North American Trade Union, between the US, Borealia, Texas, California, and Mexico. Designed in large part to ease economic woes in Mexico and California. Victoria III dies. UK has a King for the first time in 103 years, William V.
1945 - America announces that it will pull troops out of spain by 1947. William V calls for a “reorganization of the Empire.”
1947 - amidst US withdrawal, “Free Spain” erupts into civil war between monarchists and conservative republicans. US says its mandate there is over, and calls on the other members of the GPC to assist. Spanish War begins. Some US troops remain in Gibraltar and Seville. Britain, Italy, the UER, Portugal, and Russia commit troops.
1948 - election dominated by the War in Spain.
--- The (Nationalist? ) Presidency (1949-1955) ---
1949 - First successful computer created in the UER
1952 - Treaty of Lisbon: Ends the civil war. Republic of Spain declared. Spanish king and royals go into exile in Corsica, welcomed by the Bourbon Court.
1953 - British Union of Nations established. Common link between the Dominions, now recognized as equals to Britain. Colonial Commission established to look into independence/dominionship for colonies.
--- The () Presidency (1955-1961) ---
1960 - First satellite launched (joint US-Texan venture)
--- The Georgina Lincoln (CPUS) Presidency (1961-1967) ---
Thanks! Looking at a major conflict in the early 1930s that will, by the end of the decade, redraw the map of large chunks of Europe.
America will swing farther to the left (don't panic, no ASB revolutions or anything like that, even if the CPUS will win the White House a time or two).
I am considering having the Nationalists and Federalists merging into one party by mid-century. Both are conservative, but of different means, but they'll unite to combat the Liberals and the CPUS. THOSE two parties will remain in common cause but ideologically separate on many issues, and the Liberals are going to be a centrist party to counter both the Nationalists/Federalists and the CPUS.
Other thoughts or comments?
@Eckener
I've got some questions.
I've got some questions.
- Will the UER still use its constructed language as its language of government? I just think that it's actually a reasonable idea for a country with such a linguistically heterogeneous population to use to bond their people together.
- Remember how I suggested that a TTL Trump/Drumpft family member be the first "de-radicalized"UER Prime Minister? I'm ammending that to have it be Frieda Drumpft. She could be the UER's Margaret Thatcher, for better and for worse.
- Will Itally keep their monarchy? Also, if they lose enough of the north they could end up renaming themselves the Kingdom of Naples. Though if they keep most of Tuscany they'd likely keep the name.
1) Maybe, i haven’t quite decided yet. It’s part of Chairman Holtz’s cultural revolution, and it may get discredited along with a lot of other things he did after his death and the People’s Army take control in the 1930s
2) this idea is interesting. I’ll have to look into it more, but definitely not ruling it out. Post-war, the UER will be victorious but a mess, and it will take some time to sort things out. A figure like that could be interesting.
3) I haven’t decided just how much of Italy will go to the UER. It’s likely that a name change could take place. A monarchy in Italy is likely to survive, in some form, though it’s possible that it will be different than pre-war (likely becoming hereditary with less authority)
Hope the writing is going well. I've again made a belated attempt to see my ideas of the story.
Depending on exactly how powerful the monarchy is in Italy, I could see the Civil War erupting out of tensions between Communalist groups & organised crime. In 1928 A "moderate" is elected as Prime Minister, portraying himself as an honest man fighting against the political fringes with only his charisma. Once in office, he realises that his lack of political ties to corrupt groups is a liability to his power, & starts working to expel corrupt influence to replace it with his own. This leads to mass (paid) protests over the "Communalist tyrrany" the PM is imposing on the Italian people. In response, this nameless figure declares himself an avowed Monarchist & works personally with the King to keep Communists out of office, while at the same time fighting corruption. In response, the Communalists rebel. Prussia, being on the Communalist front lines & never missing a chance to use their army, opens up a second front to stall the offense & buy the other nations time to join in the fun.
I imagine the Federalist candidate (Secretary of State?) would take a pragmatic approach to the war, while the Liberal candidate would put it in more idealistic terms: "The only wars America has ever fought were for freedom & democracy. The Dixians tried to pervert this fact for their own gains, but the Cornelius Roosevelt resisted. I intend to carry on that Liberal tradition. May almighty God continue to bless the United States of America!" Of course, this would all become moot once Gibraltar happened, but it was a nice gesture. Perhaps the Liberals could add an Episcopalian on the bottom of the ticket. (Which flavour of Episcopalian is your choice.)
I suspect that one of the opposing parties would draft a Lutheran German-descended Governor as a "peace candidate". This would fail, of course, ending Prussia's last real hope of survival. Britain will strenuously object to the UER annexing anything but Prussia, proposing everything from an Iberian Union to a renewed Venice to that end. However, their appeared hostility towards Communalism is made up for (mostly) at Rome, where the UK proposes the use of the city as the HPCHQ. The US is happy with Spain & indefinite peace.
I imagine the Liberals would be hampered by the CPUS complaining over the States' complacency at the negotiating table & their lack of reproach towards the UK. This would sufficiently split the left-wing vote that the Federalists win the office. The trade union is a small wink at Britain, who can freely trade items to the US through Borealia. As another concession to the UK, the administration decides to leave Spain to a monarchist government. Of course, this backfires. One newspaper proposes in jest that the US should have given the Spanish mandate to Mexico.
After losing the past four runs, the Nationalists would have to be innovative, using the first campaign to advertise on TV (or whatever it's called ITTL). They state that the Federalists were abandoning Spain for the UER to take freely, & use the conservative resistance to this nonexistent left-wing threat as a metaphor for America in '48. The fact that the Liberal party's frontrunner was killed by a Communalist radical didn't hurt either.
The UER would be rife with intrigue, both with its allies & between members of the same government. Naturally it would invest in technologies to transmit & decode messages. The creation of the computer was a happy accident caused by this.
King William may well have visited Tampa Bay when it was returned to the US, which could have gave him the BUN idea. The Colonial Commision would likely be added in by Home Rule proponents in Parliament.
A Nationalist-Federalist merger seems too similar to the Democratic-Republican merger. I would propose a system more like a three-party system, where perhaps the Federalists & Liberals join one ticket (while still remaining decidedly separate in Congress) & the CPUS (with their belief in strong government and smaller government units) being the minor third party that can still be an important factor. Until 1960, that is.
Thanks! Unfortunately the busy week caught up to me before I could finish, but be on the look out for sometime later this week if all goes well
In regards to Italy, the Italian Empire (Imperial Union of Italy) is a more more loosely held together entity than our OTL version...think OTL German Empire but even more powers to the individual parts. The Emperor himself acts more like a Prime Minister in many ways, so there isn't an actual PM position ITTL. Not as you're thinking of, anyway.
The main problem that Italy will face is that the South rejects communalism, where as the North starts to embrace it, and there are attempts made to end monarchy in some of the individual states. One succeeds in doing so by referendum in 1928, and this leads to a showdown with the "central government" and the other constituent Italian Kingdoms, and war ultimately breaks out (also leading the other communalist-leaning states to oust their kings as well).
It's still too early to tell for sure which party will have the Presidency for the most part. That usually becomes more clear as the details fill in and the decades get fleshed out. So I could change that and a Federalist win instead...other than the fact that the Nationalists and Federalists have been in charge at this point (1930 election) since J.P. Roosevelt won the 1918 election...seems like it's time for the pendulum to swing back?
And correct, the Gibraltar incident will essentially "torpedo" all but the most ardent pacifists, and whoever IS POTUS will have no trouble getting war declared.
Not sure what you mean by "flavor of Episcopalian"?
Prussia is going to be a mess by the time the war is over. It is *somewhat* popular at the start, but that quickly fades, and by the end of the conflict the nation is tearing itself apart. UER will come in and help restore order, working with local communalists and liberals to help bring about the transition. There will be some rejoicing about "bringing all the Germans under one roof," but only so much. The Holtz Terror will have ended (he's going to step off the mortal coil in 1926 and by the end of the war most of his supporters will have been purged out and his opponents within the Party will have taken control, though most real post-Holtz reforms will not kick into full gear until after the peace).
I hadn't actually thought about how the UK would get special treatment with NATU, but that is likely what would happen. Good call there.
I hadn't considered how long of a loosing streak that would be for the Nationalists. All the more likely that they would win the '48 election. I like the idea of them seizing the new medium of TV (which would definitely be new but more prolific than it was OTL at that time). Not sure what I think about the assassination of the Lib candidate, but I may hold on to that too.
The UER will be a mess in the late 40s, early 50s, as the Union goes through a "de-Holtzification" a la what happened OTL in the USSR after Stalin died, but more so. Holtz is publicly repudiated by the Party as an out-of-control radical that nearly broke the Union. Kommunalingua will have made enough inroads that it doesn't go away, but there's no longer the official push that everyone learns it. The anti-ethnicity campaigns will end, and the Union's cultural diversity will be celebrated, instead of trying to make everyone the same. All this on top of trying to integrate Prussia and other territory. By the late 50s, the UER will be in a bit of a cultural revival.
King William will have be Prince William Victor when he visits with his mother, Victoria III, for the official handing over ceremony for Tampa Bay in 1938, yet another sign of Britain and America's "special friendship." A little early for him to be inspired for BUN I think. Though I could see him being a good-will ambassador for his mother and visiting all parts of the Empire and getting the idea for change.
That did occur to me, that the merger will feel too much like previous ones. However, I don't see the Feds and Libs having as much in common as the Nationalists and Feds would. I haven't actually worked out the exact mechanisms for the CPUS will win Washington House in 1960, just know that they will win.
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Also, I realized tonight that I have not dealt with China since the Second Opium War in the 1860s! I literally have no clue what is going on there. Thoughts?
Japan, under British domination since the 1870s, went into revolt in 1899 after the assassination of Queen Victoria. They emerged as a Federal Republic in 1909, with a still-existing tension between pro-western liberals and anti-foreign conservatives, along with some radical communalists. Haven't done much with them since either.
Some preliminary ideas:
- China probably has a revolt the same time Japan does, and maybe successfully ends British rule there as well (though that was never direct either, only in Treaty Ports and other areas of influence. Maybe those are returned?)
- Unlike in Japan, China remains monarchist, but does so more Meiji-style, so that by the time Japan's civil war ends, China has become a constitutional monarchy (maybe still under the Qing Dynasty?) seeking rapid industrialization (and both Japan and China will be competing for western investment).
Korea is still an open question. Open to suggestions.
Japan, under British domination since the 1870s, went into revolt in 1899 after the assassination of Queen Victoria. They emerged as a Federal Republic in 1909, with a still-existing tension between pro-western liberals and anti-foreign conservatives, along with some radical communalists. Haven't done much with them since either.
Some preliminary ideas:
- China probably has a revolt the same time Japan does, and maybe successfully ends British rule there as well (though that was never direct either, only in Treaty Ports and other areas of influence. Maybe those are returned?)
- Unlike in Japan, China remains monarchist, but does so more Meiji-style, so that by the time Japan's civil war ends, China has become a constitutional monarchy (maybe still under the Qing Dynasty?) seeking rapid industrialization (and both Japan and China will be competing for western investment).
Korea is still an open question. Open to suggestions.
The Qing presided over the humiliating defeat by the British as well as the humiliation of their subbordinate position to Britain and other treaty powers would likely mean their end. Even with the arrogant concept of the Middle Kingdom dead and buried it'd still be viewed as enough to claim that they lost the Mandate of Heaven.
Would it be lazy to have Korea be divided between a China-affiliated Kingdom to the north and a Japan-affiliated republic to the south? It could work if they use the Imjin river as a border instead of the OTL border.
I think a new Dynasty would come to power in China since the Qing lost the Mandate of Heaven. Maybe some General claims the throne and sets up an authoritarian regime. Many of the foreign treaties are revised and the country begins an industrialization and reform similar to the Meiji. While some Europeans grumble China presents a vast market for investment. As for Korea, I can see a neutral state that modernizes to keep the Chinese and Japanese at bay.
Good points made about loosing the mandate of heavan, and how that would undermine the Qing Dynasty. I’ll look into that and who would be the last Qing and who would replace them.
As for Korea, I kind of feel it WOULD be too lazy to divide it up, even using a river instead of the OTL boundary. Now wether it would end up a client of Japan or China or a middle man I’m not sure.
The Chinese have had a natural system of dynastic transition that helped keep the Empire in power for several millennia. It's only natural to continue the cycle.
Maybe one country installed a regime in Korea and the opposing country has a puppet government-in-exile that they claim is the true Korean government. Since Korea has traditionally been in China's sphere of influence I'd say that China installed a loyal Kingdom and the Japanese have a "government of the Republic of Korea in exile" in Tokyo that they claim is the real government. Though I do like the idea of Korea being an independent state that goes the line between the two rival countries.
Could go independent, but playing off both sides? Of course, at the same time, that'd require a lot of work on their part....
I didn't mean any intent on the Koreans part, but them simply playing the balancing act caused by being situated in between China and Japan.