Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread
- Thread starter Beedok
- Start date
I imagine in all honesty it'll just default to the British/Americans or the capitalist "South Japan" or whatever state comes into existence post-occupation.
EDIT: Also WorldA
EDIT: Also WorldA
Last edited:
Nice, but I'm fairly sure that the Ryukyu islands were supposed to be occupied by the US rather than the UK (though I could be mistaken)
I feel like whom ever proposed this was on some wild stuff at the time of writing
Dig a deep wide canal and fill in the northern strait of the Irish Sea. Simples!
(originally from Punch magazine, 1913)
You're spot on, my apologies - image edited to feature that as well as adding China to the Tokyo occupation zone.
Also hijacking this comment to add the Irish WorldA
- if anyone has any objections to me constantly converting to WorldA feel free to speak up - I'm not trying to be a like-hog or spammy or anything
I don't think this really counts since Punch was a satirical magazine
Dig a deep wide canal and fill in the northern strait of the Irish Sea. Simples!
(originally from Punch magazine, 1913)
Skallagrim
Banned
If that really crazy (and almost certainly satirical) "re-drawn Middle East borders" proposal qualifies (page 12 of this thread, post #228) then this one from Punch qualifies too, I'd say...
Skallagrim
Banned
A proposal that goes out of its way to create the Arab Shia State (ASS) and the Saudi Homelands Independent Territories (SHIT) is either a joke or created by a "think tank" that's very bad at, you know, thinking.
This was apparently a thing:
Site: http://bigthink.com/strange-maps/248-friends-polypotamians-countrymen
Site: http://bigthink.com/strange-maps/248-friends-polypotamians-countrymen
Yes! Don’t anyone dare lump in the Venerable Mad with those goons!
Thande
Donor
Former member Highlander did a map based on this (and expanding the same philosophy farther west) here: https://alt-reality.deviantart.com/art/Jefferson-s-West-90990083This was apparently a thing:
Site: http://bigthink.com/strange-maps/248-friends-polypotamians-countrymen
I just got Zamoyski's Rites of Peace about the Congress of Vienna, which is full of rejected post-Napoleonic Wars peace plans (including some proposed while Napoleon was still in power). If anyone wants to try Worlda'ing them I can describe them verbally here.
Alex Richards
Donor
I know that for Switzerland pretty much everything from restoring the 1798 borders, to giving Gex and the Chablais (which had been briefly conquered in the 1530s) to the Swiss, to letting France keep Geneva (and more besides) was proposed at some point.
Skallagrim
Banned
Coming back for a moment to Jefferson's proposal for the Old West: I've noted, time and again, that msps based on his plan don't actually correspond to what he proposed. The map linked earlier on this page has elements added/adapted by its creator, as doles every other version I've seen. That's not very surprising, considering that the original sketch outlining Jefferson's plan is pretty crude and also... well, flawed. Jefferson's notes mention where he wants that nice, straiht north-south border in the 'middle' to cross the Ohio. He imagined that this point was south of Lake Michgan. It's actually south-east of Lake Michigan. I the same way, he indicates a western boundary of Georgia, which he again imagines directly to the south of the point where his imagined straight-line border crosses the Ohio. Again, it's acually to the south-east. Jefferson's map was simply incorrect. (Besides other issues, we will also see that Jefferson greatly overestimated the size of his proposed state of Washington. It would be rather small.)
I've mocked up some variations of his proposal, each (in one way or another) attempting to stay as close as possible to what he suggested.
Variation 1 (using a border based on Lake Michigan):
As one can see, this leaves the western states much smaller than the eastern ones. Most noticably, it yields a very oversized Georgia.
Variation 2 (using a border based on the falls of the Ohio):
This border is far more 'equitable' in the distribution of land to the various states, and (presumably for that reason) it's the border most often used when Jefferson's proposal is presented. It still yields a larger Georgia than Jefferson had in mind, though-- and we often see that later editor's add their own flourishes by partitioning Georgia in some way (which Jefferson never proposed).
Variation 3 (using a border based on Jefferson's proposed western border for Georgia):
Here we see the actual western border Jefferson had in mind for Georgia, further east than in the other proposals. Georgia thus ends up much more like it is in OTL. Extrapolating that borderline further north, however, we see at once that the western states are now noticably larger than the eastern ones.
Each of the above could of course be used. But none reflects exactly what Jefferson's orginal proposal was aiming for. If Jefferson's proposal had been adopted, and accurate land measurement had followed, I don't think any of the above three plans would have been chosen without modification. I can think of two possible 'compromises' that might better reflect the intention behind Jefferson's plan:
Compromise 1 (no single north-south border):
This compromise does away with that single unbroken line, instead using three different north-south borders. It seems less neat, but it keeps Jefferson's vision of straight north-south lines, while also reflecting where he believed those lines ought to be drawn. The states are roughly proportioned as Jefferson seems to have intended.
Compromise 2 (a single north-south border that's not a purely straight line):
This compromise retains the idea of one border. Rather than trying for a straight line going north-south, this border connects the various points Jefferson indicated in as direct a way as possible, without trying to remain perfectly straight the entire way. This may look a little weird, but again, the states end up being proportioned pretty much as Jefferson suggested.
I've mocked up some variations of his proposal, each (in one way or another) attempting to stay as close as possible to what he suggested.
Variation 1 (using a border based on Lake Michigan):
As one can see, this leaves the western states much smaller than the eastern ones. Most noticably, it yields a very oversized Georgia.
Variation 2 (using a border based on the falls of the Ohio):
This border is far more 'equitable' in the distribution of land to the various states, and (presumably for that reason) it's the border most often used when Jefferson's proposal is presented. It still yields a larger Georgia than Jefferson had in mind, though-- and we often see that later editor's add their own flourishes by partitioning Georgia in some way (which Jefferson never proposed).
Variation 3 (using a border based on Jefferson's proposed western border for Georgia):
Here we see the actual western border Jefferson had in mind for Georgia, further east than in the other proposals. Georgia thus ends up much more like it is in OTL. Extrapolating that borderline further north, however, we see at once that the western states are now noticably larger than the eastern ones.
Each of the above could of course be used. But none reflects exactly what Jefferson's orginal proposal was aiming for. If Jefferson's proposal had been adopted, and accurate land measurement had followed, I don't think any of the above three plans would have been chosen without modification. I can think of two possible 'compromises' that might better reflect the intention behind Jefferson's plan:
Compromise 1 (no single north-south border):
This compromise does away with that single unbroken line, instead using three different north-south borders. It seems less neat, but it keeps Jefferson's vision of straight north-south lines, while also reflecting where he believed those lines ought to be drawn. The states are roughly proportioned as Jefferson seems to have intended.
Compromise 2 (a single north-south border that's not a purely straight line):
This compromise retains the idea of one border. Rather than trying for a straight line going north-south, this border connects the various points Jefferson indicated in as direct a way as possible, without trying to remain perfectly straight the entire way. This may look a little weird, but again, the states end up being proportioned pretty much as Jefferson suggested.