Map Thread XVII

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Ironic how *Korea in TTL is using Rising Sun rays

Well, if you check the post dated 1700, you will see that after conquest in 1683, King Yi Man-ye family married the sole surviving daughter of the Japanese Emperor. After 200 years the cultures have adopted a lot of each other's traits and mores.
In this instance the standard was adopted from a traditional flag flown by fishermen to indicate a good catch or for good luck -the tairyo-ki.
 

Skallagrim

Banned
WI - the General Development Corporation never falls but instead turns all the world into a giant Florida?

I'm a bit puzzled by the footnote mentioning that state-sponsored Ponzi schemes having replaced pensions in certain countries. I must admit that I'm not quite sure about other countries, but to my knowledge, public pension systems in various European countries are technically speaking nothing but legalised Ponzi schemes. Current payers are not paying for their own pension, but for the pension of those now retired. When the current payers retire, future payers will have to pay for their pensions. This system, as it turns out, ceases to function adequately when population growth declines-- same way a Ponzi scheme fails. You always need new payers to keep paying for those expecting a return on their earlier payments.

So... how is the situation of this TL different from OTL? Same structure, but fully privatised? Or is the OTL pension system of the USA just completely different to what I described above? (I gather that alternative systems exist. I seem to recall that Chile uses a system where everyone has to pay part of his salary into a special pension investment account, with the result that everyone does pay for his own pension. Is it currently like that in the USA, too?)
 
I'm a bit puzzled by the footnote mentioning that state-sponsored Ponzi schemes having replaced pensions in certain countries. I must admit that I'm not quite sure about other countries, but to my knowledge, public pension systems in various European countries are technically speaking nothing but legalised Ponzi schemes. Current payers are not paying for their own pension, but for the pension of those now retired. When the current payers retire, future payers will have to pay for their pensions. This system, as it turns out, ceases to function adequately when population growth declines-- same way a Ponzi scheme fails. You always need new payers to keep paying for those expecting a return on their earlier payments.

So... how is the situation of this TL different from OTL? Same structure, but fully privatised? Or is the OTL pension system of the USA just completely different to what I described above? (I gather that alternative systems exist. I seem to recall that Chile uses a system where everyone has to pay part of his salary into a special pension investment account, with the result that everyone does pay for his own pension. Is it currently like that in the USA, too?)

http://www.economist.com/node/21530106

It's more appropriate to describe pension schemes (whether state or private) as pyramid rather than ponzi. All of them ultimately rely on the economic output of the workers who are working after you retire in order for them to maintain any semblance of value from then on.

And population 'growth' below replacement level isn't a critical problem as long as economic growth continues.
 

Skallagrim

Banned
http://www.economist.com/node/21530106

It's more appropriate to describe pension schemes (whether state or private) as pyramid rather than ponzi. All of them ultimately rely on the economic output of the workers who are working after you retire in order for them to maintain any semblance of value from then on.

And population 'growth' below replacement level isn't a critical problem as long as economic growth continues.

Not being very familiar at all with the ways of swindle, I had always thought that a Ponzi scheme and a pyramid scheme were exactly the same thing. Thanks for pointing out that's not the case! :)

Regarding population growth/shrinkage, I must observe that what you say does not seem to be the case in practice-- at least not where I live. Economic growth certainly continues in the Netherlands (even in the depths of the recent crisis, we maintained just a bit of growth), yet the pension system is severely stressed. Long-existing options for early retirement were abolished, payments were however raised, and the retirement age was universally pushed up by two years, just to keep things fuctioning. It is universally understood that if the vergrijzing ("greying") of the population continues (that is, there being ever fewer births, so that there are more older people by comparison and too few young people to pay for them), further austerity measures will be needed in the future.

There is only little that economic growth can do to soothe this, it seems. My best guess as to why would be that economic prosperity also raises the costs of living (prices go up etc.). Which means that the actual way in which economic growth is expected keep the system working (namely by allowing for the raising of taxes/payments) is still going to hurt the working people. They earn more gross income, but they also have to pay more for everything... so if they additionally have to pay more into the system, they're ultimately left with less net income. Which will in the end hurt economic growth, and then everything still goes belly-up.

It seems to me that stable population growth is the only realistic way to keep a pyramid-like system from ultimately failing.

We will see how this is ultimately solved (or not). It is hardly relevant to the scenario @fashbasher presented. I was just rather curious (and still am) about the ways in which it differs from OTL in regard to pensions. It's a bit of an unusual thing to put in a footnote, after all, so I wondered what the idea behind that was.
 
I wonder how thick flat earthers think the Earth is. How far do you have to dig to get to the morlocks who live on the other side
 
Anyone have any good map ideas? My current tiberium project is making me bash my head against a wall and my TL191 thing is doing the same
 
Not being very familiar at all with the ways of swindle, I had always thought that a Ponzi scheme and a pyramid scheme were exactly the same thing. Thanks for pointing out that's not the case! :)

Regarding population growth/shrinkage, I must observe that what you say does not seem to be the case in practice-- at least not where I live. Economic growth certainly continues in the Netherlands (even in the depths of the recent crisis, we maintained just a bit of growth), yet the pension system is severely stressed. Long-existing options for early retirement were abolished, payments were however raised, and the retirement age was universally pushed up by two years, just to keep things fuctioning. It is universally understood that if the vergrijzing ("greying") of the population continues (that is, there being ever fewer births, so that there are more older people by comparison and too few young people to pay for them), further austerity measures will be needed in the future.

There is only little that economic growth can do to soothe this, it seems. My best guess as to why would be that economic prosperity also raises the costs of living (prices go up etc.). Which means that the actual way in which economic growth is expected keep the system working (namely by allowing for the raising of taxes/payments) is still going to hurt the working people. They earn more gross income, but they also have to pay more for everything... so if they additionally have to pay more into the system, they're ultimately left with less net income. Which will in the end hurt economic growth, and then everything still goes belly-up.

It seems to me that stable population growth is the only realistic way to keep a pyramid-like system from ultimately failing.

We will see how this is ultimately solved (or not). It is hardly relevant to the scenario @fashbasher presented. I was just rather curious (and still am) about the ways in which it differs from OTL in regard to pensions. It's a bit of an unusual thing to put in a footnote, after all, so I wondered what the idea behind that was.

Mhm, you definitely need growth that keeps pace with inflation.

Luckily our current generation is used to struggling, so will accept less generous pensions. Silver lining.:'(
 
8RPc3Sd.png


Just a fun thing
 

Hapsburg

Banned
A geographic map of the main continent of the recent political maps I've posted. Again, based upon a high fantasy TTRPG my wife is running.

Ovaicaea Geo.png
 
A world I call: Un-Federated
In the year 2140
IMG_9668.PNG

Pretty standard stuff for me: New years day 2018 all federations are replaced by virgin lands.

Biggest winner was China. Other countries to gain a lot were Guatemala, Columbia, Chile, Kenya, Egypt, Iran, Indonesia, Kazakstan, and many European countries.

But yeah, China. They have Mongolia, Korea, Bhutan, and Vietnam fully integrated into their system and are by far the dominant global power.

Losing Belgium, Germany and Austria kind of broke the EU for a bit. Especially Germany.

Egypt is mightily pleased to control so much of the Nile River and wields big influence over the other countries right upstream from them.

North America it the only place not yet clearly divided and has been the only place to see reformed nations. Those are Mexico and America.

In South America the Argentine free zone has been a bit of a quirk as by treaty all of it’s neighbors recognize it as sovereign Argentine territory but also strictly block any and all immigration to the area to prevent it being settled with people who would petition to join another country. There is not really any Argentine government anymore to even pretend to administer it though so it remains effectively unclaimed and unpopulated.
 
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Land of the First Sound

DC3fRt8.png

This is the parallel world Hatsunia, an alternate Japan inspired by the virtual singer "Hatsune Miku," exists in. Now with footnotes and a full writeup! Since this is a parallel universe, PoDs and butterflies are ignored. I know it's uncreative and contrived, but I wanted to imagine a relatable setting.

Hatsunia is meant to be an antithesis to Imperial Japan: instead of oppressing and committing atrocities against other Asians under the false pretenses of "co-prosperity," Hatsunia leads the way in building a genuine East Asian union. Since her most famous song is called "(The) World is Mine," I also wanted to base Hatsunia on the 80s cyberpunk trope of post-war Japan economically "taking over the world" through high-tech industry. However, that was mostly based on fears of a new "Yellow Peril," so this is a relatively less dystopian "post-cyberpunk" setting with a mutually beneficial relationship between East Asia and North America, reflecting the fact that Hatsune Miku has only performed concerts in those two regions at the time this was published.

The premise is primarily based on an old quote by @B_Munro answering a question about how Japan could "become" the world's economic superpower. He pointed out that Japan's economy overtaking the U.S. by itself was unsustainable, so this was offered as an alternative:
Japan as the center of an economic coalition that outmuscles the US. Perhaps a non-imperialist Japan (just barely possible with post-1900 PODs) leading some sort of Asian alliance, with a divided China (Trotsyite USSR and North China vs Japan and allies?)

Inspiration for this map is taken from "Mirrorshades," "Hell Valley," and "Antithesis" by @rvbomally, "1980s World" by @B_Munro (part of "Defunct Futures"), "Japan avoids radical militarism" by @BMN, "Space Race Didn't End" by @BrentAtticus, and posts (especially ones by @theg*ddam*hoi2fan) in the DBWI thread "North China defies international sanctions yet again..."
________________

In ancient times, the islands east of China and Korea came to have a culture heavily based on music as instruments were imported. In the 7th century CE they became known as "Hatsune-koku," or the "first sound state," referring to their eastward location where people heard the first sounds of the day. In the late 8th century, a capital was established in the western island of Midorishima named "Mankyoku," or "ten thousand songs." In the 11th century, Hatsune-koku became a feudal society, which was prone to conflicts at the beginning but eventually stabilized[1]. Meanwhile, the eastern island of Aoshima was gradually settled. After contact with Europeans, they adopted a policy of mutual non-interference and peaceful trade, instead of expansionism or isolationism. Starting from the 17th century, Hatsunese people became interested in western developments in musical composition.

In the mid-19th century, with gunboat diplomacy by the United States and the weakening of China by European empires, a revolution was sparked in the name of the Empress Moeji to replace the feudal system with a western-style constitutional monarchy. The modern state of "Hatsunia" was born. The revolutionaries created a constitution based on the British parliamentary system and United States Constitution and relocated the capital to the northern island of Hokkaito, naming it "Miraito," or "Future City." Eschewing the emulation of western imperialism, they pursued a policy of trading for the natural resources necessary for industrialization. They made a deal with the indigenous Ainu peoples, giving them equal rights and fair representation. With the waning of Chinese influence, Hatsunese diplomats approached Korea in a friendly manner, believing that aggressive actions would only drive them to be under another power's sphere of influence as a "dagger pointed at Hatsunia." The most imperialistic action Hatsunia ever took was the purchase of the Micronesian islands from Spain after their loss in the Spanish-American war, but the Hatsunese government also pledged to treat the natives fairly[2].

In the first decade of the 20th century, Hatsunia and the United Kingdom had a common interest in containing Russia, forming an alliance. Hatsunia and Korea fought against Russian encroachment. In the 1910s, they had minor participation in the first World War, resulting in slightly more normalized relations between Hatsunia and some of the western powers[3]. At the end of the 1920s, a Great Depression had occurred in the global economy. Hatsunia had a stable, non-fragile democratic system that was able to weather this crisis. The Republic of China, however, did not. They would be taken over by a radical nationalist dictatorship and join the fascist Axis[4] in the second World War of the 1940s. An American-Asian coalition, along with the Soviet Union, eventually defeated China, partitioning it into two states.

Reconciliation would take place between the reformed Confederation of China in the south and its neighbors. In the 1950s, Hatsunia would become one of the founders of the Mutual East Asian Cooperation Union, which would have English as a common working language. With the post-war global free trade system established by the United States, Hatsunia's economy would now start to grow faster than it ever did[5]. The MEACU would partner with countries in North America and Oceania to create the Pacific Rim Organization, colloquially known as the "Concert of the Pacific" (no relation to the 19th century "Concert of Europe"). Today, the combined GDP of the MEACU outweighs that of either the United States or the European Union. With better English education in Hatsunia, the Hatsunese technology industry was more able to adapt to software-focused business models and become major players in the digital revolution, as traditional Hatsunese Kanji script was not well suited to early computing[6]. As of 2007, one of the leading IT companies in the world is Crypton Future Media[7], developer of the "Symphony" operating system and the singing synthesizer software character "Hatsune Miku," (a modernized interpretation of old Hatsunese folklore involving a legendary musical being who helped to found Hatsune-koku exactly 2700 years ago) who would eventually come to have fans all over the world even though they're not all on the same geopolitical page.

* Retconned from "Orchestra"

[1] credits to @Killerflood for suggesting that
[2] later on, resulting in a referendum similar to French Polynesia, in which they vote to remain a part of the parent country
[3] Hatsunia is not trying to become an equal competitor to the western empires (while treating other Asians as inferior); they are just trying to survive as an independent state, so there is no "racial equality proposal" that would get rejected. They wouldn't be concerned with a Washington Naval Treaty either.
[4] based on cooperation between Nationalist China and Nazi Germany before the second Sino-Japanese War in OTL
[5] not too fast though, the success of the Japanese "Miracle" in OTL was unsustainable and probably ended up entrenching flawed business practices
[6] due to technical limitations
[7] They are a large company in TTL, but in OTL they only have 30 people.

edit: Chongqing might still be part of Sichuan (as they were only separated in 1997 because of the construction of the Three Gorges Dam)
 
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Do people like the geacron maps??? not in terms of Accuracy, but I mean when they are edited and used for alt-history?
The editing isn't bad, but I feel a little conflicted about using Geacron's maps for this stuff since it isn't like world-a where people put them up to be used as one wishes or Wikipedia where it's all public domain. You seem to not be too bad at editing so part of me wonders if you'd be better suited at trying a Photoshop/GIMP/Inkscape tutorial instead of limiting yourself to a relatively simple map medium. Aim higher, and all that. :)
 
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