Death of a Republic (A monarchical USA timeline)
- Thread starter Schnozzberry
- Start date
So the lst of Georgia falls, but the new republic stands.
Kannifo Smalls, what will he do in the face of this defeat.
And will the retreat to St. Augustine turn into a death march?
Kannifo Smalls, what will he do in the face of this defeat.
And will the retreat to St. Augustine turn into a death march?
Easily.
On foot, Google Maps has from Savannah to The Castillo De San Marcos be about 61 hours with modern roads, no angry natives, and no vengeful pursuing army.
So let's round it up a bit, call it 80 hours from A to B. You've got a load of people, wounded and slow moving for good measure, being chased through Florida's natural swampy landscape by angry as fuck and not slow moving armed forces, and for good measure, there's natives who know the land with ease and really hate you and your kind.
They gonna die.
Schnozzberry
Gone Fishin'
That's a great civil war song I haven't heard yet. I'm definitely saving it for later.
Quite frankly, one tenth of Georgia's white population will die on this march alone. While no census records existed for Savannah and the surrounding areas until 1800, the population of Savannah alone was slightly above 5,000 people in 1800, and stayed constant over the next decade. Couple that with the surrounding populations, and Walton's followers likely number between 6 and 7 thousand when they depart. While I won't touch on what happens to them for a while, only a thousandish will survive. With numerous refugees, the large number of deaths, and the Trans-Occonee's establishment, Georgia will need a huge amount of immigrants before they become a proper state once more.
Schnozzberry
Gone Fishin'
Nothing too much, except the potential demographic and power shift. Much of the South, including Georgia, were very aristocratic in government in this era. But, with Georgia's far lower population, and a potential changes in the aristocratic classes coming Soon™ Georgia could be a very different state than IOTL. Immigrants to Georgia tended to settle in towns rather than individual farms in this time period. This could lead to a more urban Georgia, and, the lower population the dynamic with the natives will change too. Overall, it's not a problem but a change.
I think the questin was based on the notion that Georgia may be dead. Will the Americans be able or willing to retake this land in the future from the revolutionaries?
Rem Publicam Moriatur
Schnozzberry
Gone Fishin'
So, this update and the next one will have a bit of a different format to it. Im adding in excerpts from a history book ITTL to clarify a bit of what happened. But, as it stands, here the Republic dies!
“Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy”
--Plato
“For most Americans, the establishment of the American Monarchy was an unquestionable fact. Such a viewpoint is understandable. After all, despite long strings of internal conflict, civil wars and numerous regime changes, the American Monarchy has been a bedrock of this nation. Of all the things that make an American “American,” few things could hardly be more important than the devotion to their monarch.”
--Ishikawa Yoshiteru, The History of America Book VII: The Early United States
With the debate over the Constitution ramping up, the Confederation Congress once again convened on October 27th, to endorsed the Constitution. This decision was not without serious debate however, as a number of delegates were afraid that a ratification at this time would be a support for the abolishment of the Republic. Nonetheless, the official endorsement by the Confederation Congress was released on November 4th. That same day, Pennsylvania became the fourth state to ratify the Constitution, voting for a Republic.
“However, when the United States first began to move towards the adoption of a stronger federal government, the nation was still firmly Republican. In fact, during the drafting of the United States Constitution, the article which provided for a monarchy was only added in due to a minority of draftees advocating for it. And the article was only agreed upon by granting the states the decision to vote for either a republic or monarchy upon ratification. None of the Republican delegates there expected for more than one or two states to vote to abolish the republic; they thought they had saved the republic by adding such a clause.”
--Ishikawa Yoshiteru
Across the nation, a mass campaign of pamphleteering began. Pro-Constitution Republicans, or Federalists as they came to be called, had arguably the strongest position. A number of prominent Americans: Benjamin Franklin, James Madison, John Jay and George Clinton advocated for the Federalist position. Their papers and pamphlets appealed to the principles of the American Revolution, Rationalism, the legacy of George Washington, and there were numerous comparisons to the American Republic and the classical civilizations of the Roman Republic and Greece, often setting up America as their successors. In addition to this, there were numerous accusations thrown against the monarchists, including one pamphlet that claimed: “He [Alexander Hamilton] has nothing in his soul but lust for profit. So firmly in the pocket of George III that not a single fiber of his being is not stamped with the words “Dieu et mon droit.”
“Ironically enough, this decision likely doomed the republican movement. With the government of three states having fled due to the New African slave rebellion, the desire for a new strong government began rapidly cementing itself in the aristocratic southern states. These states were dominated by a small number of elites who had never truly embraced Republicanism. It should be no surprise then that the first states to abandon republicanism were those which had fallen to New Africa. Their statehood was only on paper, assembled out of a few thousand wealth refugees and government officials, which made abandoning republicanism a trivial matter for them.”
--Ishikawa Yoshiteru
The Monarchists on the other hand saw increasing support from the upper classes across America. The leaders of the movement, Alexander Hamilton and Nathaniel Gorham led a vigorous pamphlet campaign as well, arguing that if the nation wished to survive, there needed to be a stable rock that the country could anchor itself to. A republic would see “the whole of these states cast asunder, scattered before the nations of Europe, subject to their whims and mercy.” But under a monarchy even as Directors came and left, there would always be the monarch whom the states and people could rally around.
“As the southern aristocracies began to move towards adopting the Constitution, the northern republican states began to move to supporting the republic. However, while the republican states of Pennsylvania and New Hampshire were able to ratify the Constitution, the remaining northern states would see their progress hindered by the Confederationalists who opposed even a republican Constitution.”
--Ishikawa Yoshiteru
On November 7th, Delaware ratified the Constitution, voting for a monarchy. Four days later, New Hampshire ratified the Constitution, and cast their vote for a republic. In Maryland, the state convention agreed to ratify the Constitution quite early, but the debate between republicanism and monarchism was quite tense. Although no primary sources of the event exist, a persistent legend is that on November 2nd the convention devolved into a brawl that required militiamen to restore order. Nevertheless, Maryland voted for a monarch on November 20th. Virginia’s convention was significantly more orderly, albeit at a significantly slower pace, only ratifying the Constitution on December 7th, and with yet another vote for monarchy.
“Despite the unanimous support for a monarchy in the southern states, the monarchists would have to pry away one state from the republican north to achieve a victory. In the eyes of many, there were two options: New York or New Jersey. And so, both the republicans and monarchists turned to these states, pamphleteering, giving public speeches and rallying as many supporters as they could. In upstate New York the rising monarchist movement resurrected the failing anti-government movement that had started during the Regulator, which would have grave consequences in the following months.”
--Ishikawa Yoshiteru
With Virginia’s ratification, both the Constitution and the future of the republic depended on one vote. Tensions across the nation approached the boiling point. Protests rocked the nation, and in the republican stronghold regions militia began to turn out in increasingly strong numbers. On December 12th in upper New York pro-republican militia flying the white-black-red tricolor seized control of Albany. With the fate of the union, all eyes turned on New York and New Jersey, expecting the next vote to come from those states. Then, on Christmas Day, Massachusetts unexpectedly ratified the Constitution and voted for a monarchy. The Republic was dead.
“Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy”
--Plato
“For most Americans, the establishment of the American Monarchy was an unquestionable fact. Such a viewpoint is understandable. After all, despite long strings of internal conflict, civil wars and numerous regime changes, the American Monarchy has been a bedrock of this nation. Of all the things that make an American “American,” few things could hardly be more important than the devotion to their monarch.”
--Ishikawa Yoshiteru, The History of America Book VII: The Early United States
With the debate over the Constitution ramping up, the Confederation Congress once again convened on October 27th, to endorsed the Constitution. This decision was not without serious debate however, as a number of delegates were afraid that a ratification at this time would be a support for the abolishment of the Republic. Nonetheless, the official endorsement by the Confederation Congress was released on November 4th. That same day, Pennsylvania became the fourth state to ratify the Constitution, voting for a Republic.
“However, when the United States first began to move towards the adoption of a stronger federal government, the nation was still firmly Republican. In fact, during the drafting of the United States Constitution, the article which provided for a monarchy was only added in due to a minority of draftees advocating for it. And the article was only agreed upon by granting the states the decision to vote for either a republic or monarchy upon ratification. None of the Republican delegates there expected for more than one or two states to vote to abolish the republic; they thought they had saved the republic by adding such a clause.”
--Ishikawa Yoshiteru
Across the nation, a mass campaign of pamphleteering began. Pro-Constitution Republicans, or Federalists as they came to be called, had arguably the strongest position. A number of prominent Americans: Benjamin Franklin, James Madison, John Jay and George Clinton advocated for the Federalist position. Their papers and pamphlets appealed to the principles of the American Revolution, Rationalism, the legacy of George Washington, and there were numerous comparisons to the American Republic and the classical civilizations of the Roman Republic and Greece, often setting up America as their successors. In addition to this, there were numerous accusations thrown against the monarchists, including one pamphlet that claimed: “He [Alexander Hamilton] has nothing in his soul but lust for profit. So firmly in the pocket of George III that not a single fiber of his being is not stamped with the words “Dieu et mon droit.”
“Ironically enough, this decision likely doomed the republican movement. With the government of three states having fled due to the New African slave rebellion, the desire for a new strong government began rapidly cementing itself in the aristocratic southern states. These states were dominated by a small number of elites who had never truly embraced Republicanism. It should be no surprise then that the first states to abandon republicanism were those which had fallen to New Africa. Their statehood was only on paper, assembled out of a few thousand wealth refugees and government officials, which made abandoning republicanism a trivial matter for them.”
--Ishikawa Yoshiteru
The Monarchists on the other hand saw increasing support from the upper classes across America. The leaders of the movement, Alexander Hamilton and Nathaniel Gorham led a vigorous pamphlet campaign as well, arguing that if the nation wished to survive, there needed to be a stable rock that the country could anchor itself to. A republic would see “the whole of these states cast asunder, scattered before the nations of Europe, subject to their whims and mercy.” But under a monarchy even as Directors came and left, there would always be the monarch whom the states and people could rally around.
“As the southern aristocracies began to move towards adopting the Constitution, the northern republican states began to move to supporting the republic. However, while the republican states of Pennsylvania and New Hampshire were able to ratify the Constitution, the remaining northern states would see their progress hindered by the Confederationalists who opposed even a republican Constitution.”
--Ishikawa Yoshiteru
On November 7th, Delaware ratified the Constitution, voting for a monarchy. Four days later, New Hampshire ratified the Constitution, and cast their vote for a republic. In Maryland, the state convention agreed to ratify the Constitution quite early, but the debate between republicanism and monarchism was quite tense. Although no primary sources of the event exist, a persistent legend is that on November 2nd the convention devolved into a brawl that required militiamen to restore order. Nevertheless, Maryland voted for a monarch on November 20th. Virginia’s convention was significantly more orderly, albeit at a significantly slower pace, only ratifying the Constitution on December 7th, and with yet another vote for monarchy.
“Despite the unanimous support for a monarchy in the southern states, the monarchists would have to pry away one state from the republican north to achieve a victory. In the eyes of many, there were two options: New York or New Jersey. And so, both the republicans and monarchists turned to these states, pamphleteering, giving public speeches and rallying as many supporters as they could. In upstate New York the rising monarchist movement resurrected the failing anti-government movement that had started during the Regulator, which would have grave consequences in the following months.”
--Ishikawa Yoshiteru
With Virginia’s ratification, both the Constitution and the future of the republic depended on one vote. Tensions across the nation approached the boiling point. Protests rocked the nation, and in the republican stronghold regions militia began to turn out in increasingly strong numbers. On December 12th in upper New York pro-republican militia flying the white-black-red tricolor seized control of Albany. With the fate of the union, all eyes turned on New York and New Jersey, expecting the next vote to come from those states. Then, on Christmas Day, Massachusetts unexpectedly ratified the Constitution and voted for a monarchy. The Republic was dead.
American Republicanism has officially failed! I wonder how the supporters of Republicanism will react to this, I wouldn't be surprised if a they declare a new republican government separate from the new american one, kicking off the civil war 80 years before schedule.
To thunderous applause?
Woah, so it lasts for some period of time? And still popular?
“Nobody ever lost a dollar by underestimating the taste of the American public.”
― P.T. Barnum
Yay, my state is being reasonable and smart!
Oh god, we're down to Jersey as our hope? We're fucked.
DAMN MASSHOLES!
"The American Republic died with a bang, and not with a wimpier" -- Ishikawa Yoshiteru
Skallagrim
Banned
Massachusetts kills the Republic. What a notion!
If you listen very carefully, you can actually hear Sam Adams spinning in his grave.
If you listen very carefully, you can actually hear Sam Adams spinning in his grave.
"In this state at Lexington and Concord the Republic was born. And in this state on the floor of the Statehouse, the Republic was murdered. May our children forgive us."
But now! The big questions: 1. Will there be war between the Moarchist and Republican states? Secession or claims of legitimacy over the other? 2. Whom shall sit the Throne of Eagles?
But now! The big questions: 1. Will there be war between the Moarchist and Republican states? Secession or claims of legitimacy over the other? 2. Whom shall sit the Throne of Eagles?
Doubtful, they offered the option to all states, they made their choices. Plus, they can't divide up, less they all die.
Now THAT is the million buck question. The one candidate everyone liked is kinda dead, sooooo....
Schnozzberry
Gone Fishin'
Heh heh, a number of people did fly a flag that said "Republic or Death" didn't they?
It's going to be one of the few aspects of the United States of America to survive until the new millennium.
Initially it did come down to New Jersey, but that just felt like the worst sin I could make at this point.
He's still alive at this point, but I think he will have a stroke when he hears the news.
Not between the states persay, but Clark Hopswood's ideas might see a resurgence in popularity.
I'm not 100% certain myself. I'm open to suggestions, but otherwise I'm leaning towards either Prince Henry of Prussia, or the Louis who was Louis XVIII IOTL.
I dunno, bringing someone in from another country could avoid domestic issues, but at the same time.....
Henry or Louis? What's happening in the Netherlands then... oh.
Is a dynastic war in the cards?
Is a dynastic war in the cards?
Schnozzberry
Gone Fishin'
Imagine the fuel the anti-Catholics would get if there was a Catholic king. It would be beautiful.
A dynastic war? Who need dynasties to get a good war going, when you got peasants with a chopping machine.
More thinking foreign relations, but that's a good point as well.
Plus, who would want the throne the US offers?
Frankly, I do not expect a foreign prince to work. For starters the Americans who support monarchy at least in the masses probably expect one of their own. Also it seems to invite trouble. The monarchy they are trying to build is something quite unlike the institutions in Europe it seems, so the royal experience would be of dubious value. it seems likely to set up a clash between those who install the new king and the king over time.
And the question of who would accept? America is a mess right now. The South is consumed by rebellion. Massachusetts is under control but still has simmering and did a good bit of damage. And this vote for monarchy itself showcases division that could slip into discord. I could see many royals not be interested and those who are might be discouraged by their family either for politics or concern for the safety of the prospective monarch over the water.
And of course those who feel serving a post in the courts as nobles, ministers etc. is better than being king over a half mad distant land like America may be seen.
So I do not think you get the pick of the lot. And a Catholic pick would be even worse adding that bit of bigotry to the other problems.
I think the closest workable matter to European royalty might be choosing a bachelor American monarch and marrying a princess. Or marrying the new monarch's heir to a princess.
And the question of who would accept? America is a mess right now. The South is consumed by rebellion. Massachusetts is under control but still has simmering and did a good bit of damage. And this vote for monarchy itself showcases division that could slip into discord. I could see many royals not be interested and those who are might be discouraged by their family either for politics or concern for the safety of the prospective monarch over the water.
And of course those who feel serving a post in the courts as nobles, ministers etc. is better than being king over a half mad distant land like America may be seen.
So I do not think you get the pick of the lot. And a Catholic pick would be even worse adding that bit of bigotry to the other problems.
I think the closest workable matter to European royalty might be choosing a bachelor American monarch and marrying a princess. Or marrying the new monarch's heir to a princess.