Weird. It was fine for me and a couple other people. Is it working now?
Weekly Flag Challenge: Discussion & Entries
- Thread starter Transparent Blue
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TBH I'm not that overly familiar with the setting itself but it proved perfect as an original response to the challenge. I was worried it would be lose votes to obscurity but luckily the design was rather niceWell done! I'm not familiar with the fantasy setting it's from, but I like the flag nonetheless.
.This is a tough one! There's no historical symbols or colors to use as reference, so I can't help but feel paralyzed by choice. My "workspace" in the Inkscape document I'm making this in looks like a mess after three sessions and nothing tangible to show for it.
Krall
Banned
As far as I can tell the HRE didn't have an official national flag in OTL, so I assume a banner used by the Emperors would be sufficient?
Heh, I do something similar when coming up with flag ideas, though I call them "spaghetti" because you're throwing out ideas and seeing what sticks, like how you can tell spaghetti's done cooking by throwing it at a wall and seeing if it sticks.
I've been trying to get into the flag challenges more recently, but this one threw me for a loop too. Mainly because it's rather specific in the history and country required - I tend to prefer challenges that focus on themes or aesthetics rather than history. I think I have some ideas though.
I was going to cut and paste to avoid quote shrinkage but what do people think on this?
Sorry! The intent was to make it as broad as possible and see all the variations. I have a feeling I'll be extending the deadline on this one!
Yes, imperial banners are acceptable. I'll update the challenge.
You say that now. We're making Imperial Banners. Try to shrink down a coat of arms and see if it diesn't look like garbage; not just the CoA, but a CoA on a flag, where the flag in 200x400. The only flags that don't look rough at 200x400 are tricolours. The main point, however, is there is no need for the size limit. Images are auto-shrunk, and if you click on the image you get the full thing. This will allow for higher quality work, especially on something like this.
Eh, that's a fair point. Still, maybe it just calls for a bigger size for this particular challenge.
Krall
Banned
I'm with Xanthoc. Some sort of upper limit on the size of entries would be alright, but 200x400 is waaay too tiny. For example, I've won the weekly flag challenge a grand total of once with this flag - here's what it looks like with the shortest side at 200px:
It's just an unreasonably small size for anything beyond very simple flags, and even with tricolours I'd rather see them at more like 400x800 or 500x1000.
Krall
Banned
I'm not sure I'd dump it entirely, but I'd prefer it if the maximum sizes were more lenient - something like 500x 1000 or 600x1200, with no difference for single flag and multiple flag challenges.
I can change the rules post to adjust or remove the size limit, if the proposal wins a poll that is open for at least four days.
TBH Krall's example seems ok to me on this screen. Maybe it's a mobile viewing issue? As I've said before anything more than 400px high just clutters the screen - I certainly have issues viewing the Flag Thread now with average flags now over 600px high.
For this challenge I'll compromise and go to 300x600 per flag (the previous limit on single flag entries) if I get more than 4 likes on this post.
For this challenge I'll compromise and go to 300x600 per flag (the previous limit on single flag entries) if I get more than 4 likes on this post.
Seems fair enough. I can post it alongside the challenge poll next week if you'd like.
Krall
Banned
Do you mean you're viewing it on mobile, or you think I'm viewing it on mobile?
That's better than 200x400 at least, though not by much.
What would the different options be? Or would it just be a two option poll with "Keep it the same" and "Adjust/Remove it"?
After a few changes to the design (click for higher quality) so as to make it look better, I present....
The Banner of His Imperial Majesty Lothere, by the Grace of God, Emperor of the Romans, King of Burgundy, Aquitaine, and Westisia, Caesar of Italia, Sovereign of Austrasia, Defender of the Faith, Protector of the Holy See
"Upon his final subjugation of the trade republics of the Italian peninsula, King Lothere of Burgundy had himself declared Emperor of the Romans, with a proper coronation in St. Peter's Basilica, being crowned by the Pope. The Empire restored, a practice taken from the Romans was put back into the forefront of military culture: the vexillum. Though no longer a vertically hung cloth for each legion, Lothere believed firmly in the use of symbols to show the strength of the Empire. As such, his personal war banner, a tricolor of blue, white, and green, was altered and used as the standard of the military, each blessed by priests and soaked in holy water, every soldier told that to lose the banner was to lose a blessed piece of the Empire's soul. In doing so, this banner became the standard of the Empire itself."
- Empire Reborn, 2012 Documentary
"...The reason for the existence of his war flag was his personal dislike of his father, and so Lothere preferred not to use a banner of his family arms when leading his own armies into battle during his time as Prince. The origin of the colors blue, white, and green, is not entirely clear to modern scholars. There is, in fact, a great amount of debate over them. Some believe they come from the idea of ground, air, and sky, and that Lothere, being known for his art and poetry, took to using these colors as a symbol of his dominion of all that he surveyed. Others call this completely ridiculous, and instead contend that it first comes from the blue-white banner used by member of the Order of the Shield of Charlemagne, a chivalrous order of knights to which Lothere belonged as Prince of Burgundy. This then, leaves the question of why green was added. Some of the aforementioned scholars that subscribe to the "Order Theory", as opposed to the "Symbol Theory", will either reply "I don't know," or propose that perhaps it was simply added for individuality, being that as a King and later Emperor, using the war flag of a holy order as ones own would not be entirely proper. A third group of theorists also exists, and while readers may wonder why there is such debate over something as simple as a flag, it should be remembered that the topic of the Restorer of Rome is one of the most popular for all historians, and nearly every historian that studies the matter carries his own opinion. Now, the third group are subscribers to the "Eye Theory", which holds that, given the famous legend of the Emperor's heterochromia, perhaps that is the source for his banner. Due several surviving paintings and reconstructed paints for a bust, we do know that, at times, Lothere was painted with possessing one eye that was blue, and one eye that was either brown or green; many believe it may have been hazel, and thus possessing flecks of green and brown. Assuming the Emperor was either green-blue or hazel-blue heterochromatic, it is believed by these theorists that he used this striking feature as inspiration for his personal flag of war, with a white stripe being used as a contrast between the two colors...
..There is also debate over the tail of the flag. Some hold that it was a short spike of only a few inches, while others report stories of it being up to three feet in length. The shape was a common design of the era for war banners, and it is possible (and likely) that different makers of the flags had a variety of lengths in use, based on how much fabric they had left to use. After all, it was unlikely that the Emperor was going to go around inspecting each armies' banner, and in effect it was the banner in itself that served as a symbol, not its proportions."
- Examining Men and Women of History, AP European History textbook, published 2005
"The arms of the House of Juvaire is simple, but displays the familial history well. Four Francian Crosses are used to show the family's ancient roots as lords under King Charlemagne, and the red saltire represents the family's Catholic roots, and specifically its veneration of St. Andrew..."
- Basics of Heraldry, published 1967
The Banner of His Royal Majesty Gaspard, Prince of the Romans, Dictator of Latium
"...this title was created by Lothere purely because of the nagging of his heir, Gaspard. Being the Crown Prince of of the Romans, Burgundy, Aquitaine, Westisia, Italia, and Austrasia was not enough for the boy, and he wanted to show his ability to rule and create a powerbase of his own. Believing it could work to make his disliked son more popular amongst the people, and to create greater ties between the Italians and their Frankish conquerors, Emperor Lothere agreed to his request and, taking from both the merchant republic tradition of the peninsula and that of the Roman Republic, he named Gaspard Dictator of Latium, thus making his son the direct ruler of half of the Italian peninsula. Ever since, the heir apparent of the Second Roman Empire was been named Dictator of Latium. In truth, Latium as the territory rule by the Dictator, is in fact comprised of the First Roman regions of Latium, Etruria, Samnium, Picenum, Emilia, Liguria, and Umbria..."
- When in Rome: the Rise and Fall of the Second Roman Empire, 2016 documentary
"Prince Gaspard is said to have designed the banner himself, echoing his father's famed artistic manner, although this may very well have just been told as a story to improve his image. However, as the Banner of the Dictator of Latium, it became a symbol of the region, and even the republican movement that controlled the area centuries later looked to this flag for inspiration. The red and tyrian were used to represent the area's history as the heart of both the Roman Republic and the First Roman Empire, the famed "S.P.Q.R." taking a central place as well. The crest of the House of Juvaire is set centrally, showing their control of the land. Some believe the flag ended in a point, while others contend it was cut to be trapezoidal."
- Flags of Antiquity, published 1991
The Banner of His Imperial Majesty Lothere, by the Grace of God, Emperor of the Romans, King of Burgundy, Aquitaine, and Westisia, Caesar of Italia, Sovereign of Austrasia, Defender of the Faith, Protector of the Holy See
"Upon his final subjugation of the trade republics of the Italian peninsula, King Lothere of Burgundy had himself declared Emperor of the Romans, with a proper coronation in St. Peter's Basilica, being crowned by the Pope. The Empire restored, a practice taken from the Romans was put back into the forefront of military culture: the vexillum. Though no longer a vertically hung cloth for each legion, Lothere believed firmly in the use of symbols to show the strength of the Empire. As such, his personal war banner, a tricolor of blue, white, and green, was altered and used as the standard of the military, each blessed by priests and soaked in holy water, every soldier told that to lose the banner was to lose a blessed piece of the Empire's soul. In doing so, this banner became the standard of the Empire itself."
- Empire Reborn, 2012 Documentary
"...The reason for the existence of his war flag was his personal dislike of his father, and so Lothere preferred not to use a banner of his family arms when leading his own armies into battle during his time as Prince. The origin of the colors blue, white, and green, is not entirely clear to modern scholars. There is, in fact, a great amount of debate over them. Some believe they come from the idea of ground, air, and sky, and that Lothere, being known for his art and poetry, took to using these colors as a symbol of his dominion of all that he surveyed. Others call this completely ridiculous, and instead contend that it first comes from the blue-white banner used by member of the Order of the Shield of Charlemagne, a chivalrous order of knights to which Lothere belonged as Prince of Burgundy. This then, leaves the question of why green was added. Some of the aforementioned scholars that subscribe to the "Order Theory", as opposed to the "Symbol Theory", will either reply "I don't know," or propose that perhaps it was simply added for individuality, being that as a King and later Emperor, using the war flag of a holy order as ones own would not be entirely proper. A third group of theorists also exists, and while readers may wonder why there is such debate over something as simple as a flag, it should be remembered that the topic of the Restorer of Rome is one of the most popular for all historians, and nearly every historian that studies the matter carries his own opinion. Now, the third group are subscribers to the "Eye Theory", which holds that, given the famous legend of the Emperor's heterochromia, perhaps that is the source for his banner. Due several surviving paintings and reconstructed paints for a bust, we do know that, at times, Lothere was painted with possessing one eye that was blue, and one eye that was either brown or green; many believe it may have been hazel, and thus possessing flecks of green and brown. Assuming the Emperor was either green-blue or hazel-blue heterochromatic, it is believed by these theorists that he used this striking feature as inspiration for his personal flag of war, with a white stripe being used as a contrast between the two colors...
..There is also debate over the tail of the flag. Some hold that it was a short spike of only a few inches, while others report stories of it being up to three feet in length. The shape was a common design of the era for war banners, and it is possible (and likely) that different makers of the flags had a variety of lengths in use, based on how much fabric they had left to use. After all, it was unlikely that the Emperor was going to go around inspecting each armies' banner, and in effect it was the banner in itself that served as a symbol, not its proportions."
- Examining Men and Women of History, AP European History textbook, published 2005
"The arms of the House of Juvaire is simple, but displays the familial history well. Four Francian Crosses are used to show the family's ancient roots as lords under King Charlemagne, and the red saltire represents the family's Catholic roots, and specifically its veneration of St. Andrew..."
- Basics of Heraldry, published 1967
The Banner of His Royal Majesty Gaspard, Prince of the Romans, Dictator of Latium
"...this title was created by Lothere purely because of the nagging of his heir, Gaspard. Being the Crown Prince of of the Romans, Burgundy, Aquitaine, Westisia, Italia, and Austrasia was not enough for the boy, and he wanted to show his ability to rule and create a powerbase of his own. Believing it could work to make his disliked son more popular amongst the people, and to create greater ties between the Italians and their Frankish conquerors, Emperor Lothere agreed to his request and, taking from both the merchant republic tradition of the peninsula and that of the Roman Republic, he named Gaspard Dictator of Latium, thus making his son the direct ruler of half of the Italian peninsula. Ever since, the heir apparent of the Second Roman Empire was been named Dictator of Latium. In truth, Latium as the territory rule by the Dictator, is in fact comprised of the First Roman regions of Latium, Etruria, Samnium, Picenum, Emilia, Liguria, and Umbria..."
- When in Rome: the Rise and Fall of the Second Roman Empire, 2016 documentary
"Prince Gaspard is said to have designed the banner himself, echoing his father's famed artistic manner, although this may very well have just been told as a story to improve his image. However, as the Banner of the Dictator of Latium, it became a symbol of the region, and even the republican movement that controlled the area centuries later looked to this flag for inspiration. The red and tyrian were used to represent the area's history as the heart of both the Roman Republic and the First Roman Empire, the famed "S.P.Q.R." taking a central place as well. The crest of the House of Juvaire is set centrally, showing their control of the land. Some believe the flag ended in a point, while others contend it was cut to be trapezoidal."
- Flags of Antiquity, published 1991
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Noone else has clicked like on my 300x600 yet.
But since the only entry is outside the 200x400 I'll bow to your lobbying and use it. I'm also extending the challenge til end of Monday.