The Man in the High Castle on Amazon Prime
- Thread starter xxmagex
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Pulled off an all nighter to binge watch season 2(9pm to 8am non stop). Damn it was awesome!
It never really talked about what happened to minorities in the former US.
Here's a screenshot of the show's Atlantropa concept.
Here's a clearer map in Season 2, showing Nazi military assets.
I've just finished binge-watching Season 2 yesterday. The show's establishing shots is a goldmine for Nazi Victory scenarios - I've put up an Imgur album of the shown maps and setpieces, if anyone wants to use them for their timelines.
Some of the best shots:
Reichstag and Volkshalle Exterior
Volkshalle Interior - Empty
Volkshalle Interior - Full
SS Headquarters - New York
Nazi War Room
Nazi Church
Washington Nuke - Effects
San Francisco - Oakland Bridge View
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More likely that it's just laziness, unfortunately. As shown in these maps of North America, Central America and South America, the old borders and capitals are still labeled as such; even Washington D.C., which was explicitly nuked in December 1945. Washington must have either been abandoned, razed over, or renamed; I think that the prop makers simply got a 1960s-era map and shaded it over.
A_H_nikky
Banned
As popular as it seems to be I cant imagine them not milking it for all its worth. Especially when it will be viewed as potentially being able to make commentary on some real life attitudes over the next few years. Its too valuable to end now.
As a thought exercise, what do you guys think their respective navies would look like in alternate 1962.
IIRC, POD is Roosevelt's assassination so no Two Ocean Navy act.
But considering Pearl Harbor raid still happens, I can only assume IJN development followed similar lines (Kido Butai and Yamasushi).
I'm assuming in this case a Decisive Battle was joined so we would definitely see a greater loss of historical IJN battle line. Assuming the primacy of carrier aviation remains sorta true to IRL timeline, the core of IJN being formed around modernized G-15 (Taiho-kai) designs flying 2nd Gen jets.
I would assume for the IJN that all BBs but Yamato would've been scrapped due to age (and keeping Yamato due to name significance). If B-65 was built, we'd see them in use for a while. Fast CVLs would've been converted to commando or helo carriers. Partial conversion of some heavy cruisers (not any of the treaty cruisers, but those of their later Maru 5 and 6 replenishment plans) into ad-hoc missile cruisers (in the veign of the USN Boston and Galveston classes). Others refitted with auto-loaders for colonial gunboat and gun fire support duties.
Unsure if they'll move away from a heavy torpedo focused DD strat. But considering advances in radar and being in a Cold War with the Germans, I would assume the vast majority of the newer DD designs will no longer have the long range torpedo focus and move on to a stronger ASW focus (assuming they fix the top heavy balance of the IJN, but considering the IJN can't seem to keep some SLOCs clear of pirates, so I would assume the navy is still very top heavy or simply not as big as USN circa 1962).
Tech development would probably be lagging behind the Germans given how much uplifting is need in the Japanese conquered territories.
Given Season 1's assertion at how "advanced" the GNR is, I would assume that the Nazi's are on 3rd Gen fighters already, but with a smaller navy to offset the tech advantage (the Japanese were losing their parity with the Germans at the start of Season 1, so apparently from 45 on to 55, there was some sort of parity.
For the Kreigsmarine, the partial completion of some Plan Z ships.(up to H-42 and modernized w. missiles/arsenal ship concept). Given their spearheading of atomic power, I woudl assume they would have the first nuclear powered guided missile cruisers.
No real force projecting real carrier aviation if their base was Graf Zepp (so I would assume they went with intercontinental bombers to hit America with nukes, which fits with the aesthetic of the Nazi's getting a Concorde in the 60s), so I'm assuming VMF like carriers at most but with more advanced jets 3rd Gen to IJA/IJN 2nd).
IIRC, POD is Roosevelt's assassination so no Two Ocean Navy act.
But considering Pearl Harbor raid still happens, I can only assume IJN development followed similar lines (Kido Butai and Yamasushi).
I'm assuming in this case a Decisive Battle was joined so we would definitely see a greater loss of historical IJN battle line. Assuming the primacy of carrier aviation remains sorta true to IRL timeline, the core of IJN being formed around modernized G-15 (Taiho-kai) designs flying 2nd Gen jets.
I would assume for the IJN that all BBs but Yamato would've been scrapped due to age (and keeping Yamato due to name significance). If B-65 was built, we'd see them in use for a while. Fast CVLs would've been converted to commando or helo carriers. Partial conversion of some heavy cruisers (not any of the treaty cruisers, but those of their later Maru 5 and 6 replenishment plans) into ad-hoc missile cruisers (in the veign of the USN Boston and Galveston classes). Others refitted with auto-loaders for colonial gunboat and gun fire support duties.
Unsure if they'll move away from a heavy torpedo focused DD strat. But considering advances in radar and being in a Cold War with the Germans, I would assume the vast majority of the newer DD designs will no longer have the long range torpedo focus and move on to a stronger ASW focus (assuming they fix the top heavy balance of the IJN, but considering the IJN can't seem to keep some SLOCs clear of pirates, so I would assume the navy is still very top heavy or simply not as big as USN circa 1962).
Tech development would probably be lagging behind the Germans given how much uplifting is need in the Japanese conquered territories.
Given Season 1's assertion at how "advanced" the GNR is, I would assume that the Nazi's are on 3rd Gen fighters already, but with a smaller navy to offset the tech advantage (the Japanese were losing their parity with the Germans at the start of Season 1, so apparently from 45 on to 55, there was some sort of parity.
For the Kreigsmarine, the partial completion of some Plan Z ships.(up to H-42 and modernized w. missiles/arsenal ship concept). Given their spearheading of atomic power, I woudl assume they would have the first nuclear powered guided missile cruisers.
No real force projecting real carrier aviation if their base was Graf Zepp (so I would assume they went with intercontinental bombers to hit America with nukes, which fits with the aesthetic of the Nazi's getting a Concorde in the 60s), so I'm assuming VMF like carriers at most but with more advanced jets 3rd Gen to IJA/IJN 2nd).
The newly revised opening titles are just fantastic. But they were fantastic to begin with.
Really, the title sequence alone deserves some awards. Great imagery, perfect song.
Really, the title sequence alone deserves some awards. Great imagery, perfect song.
Thanks for the screen grabs.
I think the show designers get a little swastika-happy at times - the war room seems especially overkill - but I suppose that's a conceit the showrunners feel they have to indulge to really drive home the reality of a Nazi-ruled world to an audience that's 3 generations removed from the war (and bountifully ignorant about most of it to boot).
Philip K. Dick really doesn't discuss naval matters much in the book, so there's lots of room for the showrunners to pay with. I mean, once you get past the implausibility of any German or Japanese large scale invasion of North America (even with a weak, inwardly conflicted United States).
Actually, Pearl Harbor is unlikely since the Pacific Fleet is unlikely to be in Hawaii in the first place - it was FDR who put it there in 1940, against the advice of the Navy hierarchy. When war breaks out, whatever there is of the Pacific Fleet is likely to still be based in San Diego. Which doesn't mean there won't be an IJN surprise attack of some kind.
Yes, I'd expect that even the IJN would be shifting away from battleship mania. Likely they complete the full Yamato class (5 ships), and have retired all the rest, save for one or two training ships - perhaps Nagato. Otherwise, you would see, I think, an extension of IJN trends through the early part of the war, with some hard lessons not learned since the USN didn't put up near the fight it did in OTL. Probably still an inadequate amphibious doctrine and logistical train. The advancing power of KM submarines might have them rethinking ASW doctrine (or their lack of one).
Otherwise, sure to be even more of a carrier-strike force based navy. We don't know about wartime losses (I assume few). Even with Japan's new conquests there's a limit to what the Japanese economy can build and support, and they probably keep two major carrier task forces, one for WestPac/Indian Ocean and the other EastPac, both centered on Taiho-class or Taiho-derived fleet carriers (something upscaled into the 40-50k ton range to accommodate larger jet fighters and bombers). Kaga and Akagi are likely retired due to age and obsolesence, though Soryu and Shokako classes are likely still in service. Would the Japanese have developed angled flight decks? I tend to think not; but even if they have, I'd expect they're only starting to be played with now. They've likely moved on to first generation jet fighters now, with second gen fighters still in early stages. Their big advantage over the KM will be much more experience with carrier ops and design.
Both Dick and the showrunners seem excessive in projecting Nazi tech, but it's a fun conceit for the latter, and just a typical postwar western overestimation of Nazy wunderwaffe on Dick's part. But yeah, if we take what they've been showing us, we probably get:
Actually, Pearl Harbor is unlikely since the Pacific Fleet is unlikely to be in Hawaii in the first place - it was FDR who put it there in 1940, against the advice of the Navy hierarchy. When war breaks out, whatever there is of the Pacific Fleet is likely to still be based in San Diego. Which doesn't mean there won't be an IJN surprise attack of some kind.
Yes, I'd expect that even the IJN would be shifting away from battleship mania. Likely they complete the full Yamato class (5 ships), and have retired all the rest, save for one or two training ships - perhaps Nagato. Otherwise, you would see, I think, an extension of IJN trends through the early part of the war, with some hard lessons not learned since the USN didn't put up near the fight it did in OTL. Probably still an inadequate amphibious doctrine and logistical train. The advancing power of KM submarines might have them rethinking ASW doctrine (or their lack of one).
Otherwise, sure to be even more of a carrier-strike force based navy. We don't know about wartime losses (I assume few). Even with Japan's new conquests there's a limit to what the Japanese economy can build and support, and they probably keep two major carrier task forces, one for WestPac/Indian Ocean and the other EastPac, both centered on Taiho-class or Taiho-derived fleet carriers (something upscaled into the 40-50k ton range to accommodate larger jet fighters and bombers). Kaga and Akagi are likely retired due to age and obsolesence, though Soryu and Shokako classes are likely still in service. Would the Japanese have developed angled flight decks? I tend to think not; but even if they have, I'd expect they're only starting to be played with now. They've likely moved on to first generation jet fighters now, with second gen fighters still in early stages. Their big advantage over the KM will be much more experience with carrier ops and design.
Both Dick and the showrunners seem excessive in projecting Nazi tech, but it's a fun conceit for the latter, and just a typical postwar western overestimation of Nazy wunderwaffe on Dick's part. But yeah, if we take what they've been showing us, we probably get:
- The complete Plan Z buildout, and then some, including at least the smaller H class battleships, which have probably been modified to include anti-ship missiles.
- Growing tensions with Japan have probably resulted in a next generation, much improved fleet carrier class (working also from captured RN and USN ships, personnel and tech) to succeed the Graf Zeppelins
- KM Fighters and bombers will still suffer from Luftwaffe control over aircraft development, but probably using second gen fighters as their mainstay now
- Radar is likely to be more advanced than the IJN
- The KM likely has begin deploying nuclear-powered SSBNs, if not attack subs - something which should be forcing Japan to start looking ASW capabilities for the first time.
I think laziness is right (especially with "Pakistan"), though I hate to ding them much here, because they've already done much more detailed worldbuilding than I expected, or had any right to expect.
And it's not like alt-history novelists are often any better. Much as I enjoyed Guns of the South and his Timeline-191 books, I thought Turtledove just took the lazy way out by projecting a West Virginia with exactly the same boundaries as it has in OTL, something extremely unlikely in a scenario where the South wins the the Civil War.
Three episodes in to Season 2, and the biggest problem I have is that it's boring. Nice visuals, and it's always good to see Stephen Root, but I just cannot get into it. So, so slow. Everything just seems so lethargic.