another great update . The soviets are going to be so Jealous , The NACAA is going to land on the Moon. Cant hardly wait for the next chapter .
nice update
although there is issue with Columbia capsule
in post is say there no need for EVA, but it got a Payload bay in service module.
So how get the data of those instruments into Capsule ? (Apollo crew made EVA to get tapes from SIM bay)
are Film from cameras feed into capsule like Spy sat and Data recorder installed in side Capsule ?
In September 1973 he had obtained a significant victory through the launch of air force pilot instructor Lidiya Kotova on a week-long Orel mission, claiming the title of First Woman in Space for the Soviet Union - a title that Mishin had spectacularly failed to secure a decade earlier with Zarya-3.
Hurray - I've been lurking around this thread for months, since the Zarya/ Kuznetsova anomaly, hoping we'd get another female cosmonaut, eventually.
Does anyone have any objections if I insert a little vignette about Kotova? It seems to be a shame not to have a bit more to say about her background, career and spaceflight?
037771 said:It's good to see the nefarious Iron Shurik featured as well - he doesn't get nearly enough play on the site.
Kirk Kerman said:Alright, here's my impression of an N-1 style M-1
http://i.imgur.com/ibCUHFD.png
The other ideas will be done soonish.
su_liam said:But. I'm not sure that that long thin taper makes sense. At least for the reasons it was used on the N-1. Instead of two stacked spherical tanks, we have a cylindrical tank stacked above a spherical one joined by a straight fairing? Could that make sense as a design? Well, for Kerbals, sure. Those guys just ain't right in the head…! Still, it's a good application of Rule of Cool.
Michel Van said:nice work, Kirk Kerman
I want to see how the kerbal astronaut screams his way up in that rocket
Kirk Kerman said:Yeah, unfortunately the long thin taper is the enly way to get the conical shape without overblowing the width. I'd imagine it could still work: with a spherical tank on tha bottom and a longer pill shaped tank above it.
Kirk Kerman said:
Kirk Kerman said:Well, I tried to launch the Zarya on my new M-1, but my apparent upper stage curse struck again and the engine on the second stage refused to start. I fixed the problem, but I son't have enough time to try it again tonight.
su_liam said:First. ¡Brainbin!
Michel Van said:I like this version of "2001: a Space Odyssey"
i wonder of MGM get lower cost movie or burn Kubrick same amount of money like OTL?
Michel Van said:On Perry Rhodan
were can i shot William Dozier in this TL ?
irony there is Italian "Sci-fi" movie based on Perry Rhodan with same tone: Pure Trash
this bright, wacky, colourful satire will over top by dub made for German audiences
Shevek23 said:The ATL Odyssey movie would be a treat to watch I think, though it is very different. Fewer iconic spacecraft (just the first circumlunar mission, and then one each US and Soviet ensemble, no space station or gigantic Clavius Base). No HAL! So I suppose there is going to be more dialog and character interaction among the US crew and possibly some over-the-shoulder looks at the Soviet crew as well, with subtitled dialog among them.
Shevek23 said:Frankly it's not easy for me to see why Muskie or any large, influential wing of mainstream Democrats would set themselves such a goal in the first place. It's not quite what Kennedy, or the Congressional Dems before he was elected who twisted Eisenhower's arm OTL, were setting out to do, exactly. NASA of OTL was indeed supposed to be civilian, but these were civilians with a quasi-military mission, a sort of distillation of the "explorer/civilizer" role of the military, quite frankly front-line soldiers (with a hell of a huge logistical tail of course) in the Cold War. Since that mentality remains stronger than OTL into the '70s I don't see why Muskie would be driving any wedges or trying to burn any bridges to the Pentagon.
Any support he had in doing that, from a rising counterculture, would probably prefer he didn't "waste" any money in space at all--there were OTL and are now "space hippies" like myself who certainly do want to see this kind of progress and somewhat deplore it being quasi-military, but we are odd and rare ducks, not much of a constituency, and most of us would expect at least a quasi-military mentality to dominate anyhow and would imagine more hippyish character expies of themselves as somehow getting along with and perhaps moderating somewhat the fighter-jock types, oddball cop buddy movie style.
So while I appreciate the timeline is not trying to get too deep into backstory unrelated to space, since Muskie has this peculiar position, I think we need to know more about how and why this TL's US culture and politics differs from OTL, to explain his odd-seeming position and show where he gets a basis of support for it, or anyway believes he will.
Petike said:Okay, nixonshead, the time has come... The time for what, you ask ? The time to binge-read your timeline, that's what ! I'll give you my impressions soon enough.
Bahamut-255 said:From the Earth to the Moon? Now where have I heard that name before?
Bahamut-255 said:All the while as NACAA push ahead to meet Muskie's goal which for them is now a very real possibility, even with all the various changes made with regards to crew safety (or perhaps happening because of them). Btw, what are the Minerva-B's performance figures? And what are the specs for the Columbia Spacecraft?
Kirk Kerman said:No picture this time?
EDIT: also, I'm currently working on making Chasovoy-1 in KSP.
Shevek23 said:I'm just going to guess the capsule itself is between 3 and 4 tons--why? Bigger than a Gemini I hope--lots of people say that the Gemini was a great spacecraft and that the Apollo capsule was actually too big--but I say that's nuts. I just don't think it is optimal to crowd people that tightly, not for many days on end. True, the Gemini missions that went on for a week or so worked out OK I guess. Whereas people cite the fact that space sickness afflicted many Apollo astronauts--because now they had enough room to move around, and could experience and realize, on an, um, gut level--that they were in zero G, and reacted to it.
Shevek23 said:I started writing this trying to convince myself it would look nothing like a Gemini but that's where logic and minimal evidence seem to point. After all, the Americans have, other than Dynasoar, only ever flown Mercury capsules, and Gemini OTL started out as "Mercury II". Here, the sheet of paper is much fresher but, given the somewhat surprising to me decision to go tight with habitable volume, I know Gemini was considered very satisfactory by OTL astronauts and if you want to make the space tight, there probably aren't a lot of other ways to do it right--given that Mercury is the only data point they have, a good design seems likely to parallel Gemini. Darn it!
Shevek23 said:Chelomei's disaster is the whole Soviet program's disaster. Even though the failed launch of his Safir test article (surely it wasn't a manned attempt, was it?) might be seen as vindicating Mishin by some, that's an irrational way of looking at it--for Mishin's Varya-based lunar flyby is also scheduled to be launched by a Proton, and it was the Proton rocket that failed; not the payload.
Astronomo2010 said:another great update . The soviets are going to be so Jealous , The NACAA is going to land on the Moon. Cant hardly wait for the next chapter .
Michel Van said:nice update
although there is issue with Columbia capsule
in post is say there no need for EVA, but it got a Payload bay in service module.
So how get the data of those instruments into Capsule ? (Apollo crew made EVA to get tapes from SIM bay)
are Film from cameras feed into capsule like Spy sat and Data recorder installed in side Capsule ?
Shevek23 said:I guessed this is how they'd do it. Recorder in the capsule, why not?
nixonshead said:However, no spacewalks were planned for at least the first few Columbia missions
Tonyq said:Hurray - I've been lurking around this thread for months, since the Zarya/ Kuznetsova anomaly, hoping we'd get another female cosmonaut, eventually.
Does anyone have any objections if I insert a little vignette about Kotova? It seems to be a shame not to have a bit more to say about her background, career and spaceflight?
…
Vladimir Chelomei chats to Soviet Air Pilot, Senior Lieutenant Lidiya Vladimirovna Kotova, as she sits atop the UR500 Proton booster, waiting to become the first woman in space, September, 1973.
Great work Kirk Kerman! I like the sloping cone best from a visual point of view, though the engineer in me figures that the straight cylinder may be more likely - but so boring! Can you give us the dimensions for the conical stages?
Will you be adding a fairing? Unlike the original R-6 launched Zarya, M-1/Zarya-B has a fairing and escape tower similar to OTL’s Soyuz (the switch to kerolox means the fireball of a launch failure would be too big for ejection seats, aside from mass issues and concerns after Kuznetsova’s ejection).
Sorry, no time . I hope to correct this during the hiatus, including something for Brainbin’s guest post. For Chasovoy, think something like OTL’s OPS module or Tiangong.
No objections from my side, though I’ll let you know if anything conflicts with the established story. Great picture, I’ll add that to the Wiki if I may!
Kirk Kerman said:With a Zarya at 1.25m wide, the third stage for M-1bis is 1.875m wide, while the second stage goes from 1.875m-2.5m, and the first stage goes from 2.5m-3.75m
<snip>
tonyq said:"The First Woman in Space - Part 1"
Looks good! Ideally I'd like to have something a bit more Soyuz-like for the fairing (grid fins, for example), but I love the overall shape, and it stays within the 4.15m diameter limit.
Love it! I'm guessing you're planning a Part 2? Let me know if you want anything clarified about the Orel, or anything else, to help put it together!
Kirk Kerman said:Well, I wouldn't be too sure that it's within the limit, you still have to scale it up so that the Zarya can fit people instead of kerbals.
Tonyq said:Thanks.
Yes. I think there will be four parts. Part 3 is written, and Part 2 is in the works. Should have something else up by early next week.
Shevek23 said:Is there any particular OTL knowledge of Chelomei's character that would support the idea that he'd be more serious about women playing truly equal roles in space than the typical prevailing mentality that OTL history (and ATL thus far) has made all too painfully obvious?
<snip>
I should note that Chelomei of ATL anyway is attempting something that the Soviets OTL didn't do until the Americans were finally ready, with Sally Ride's first mission, to put the second woman in space. Then and only then did the Soviets put up the second, their second, just weeks before Ride's launch, and send one to the current Salyut station.
Chelomei is doing what he is doing with the Americans presenting no such "threat."
Shevek23 said:Now, it has just occurred to me for the author's main story line--if President Muskie really wanted to double down on Columbia being a project that will somehow be seen as an alternative to rather than extension of the Military-Industrial Complex, he should perhaps have considered including women in the Lunar astronaut corps!
Say, start grooming a married couple to be the first to land on the Moon? "People from the planet Earth came in peace for all humankind?"
I remember spotting a comment about the Tisha B'Av War, and how this holiday is a much less important one than Yom Kippur, which of course was the date of the equivalent conflict IOTL. The comment seems to have disappeared, but I just wanted to thank the poster (sorry, I forget who) for pointing this out, as it wasn’t something I was aware of (though I guessed it wouldn’t be as important as Yom Kippur). ITTL, the use of the holiday as the date of the planned attack isn’t actually so important. I knew it would happen in the summer, as the absence of Shelepin and consequent paralysis of the Soviet leadership seeped into the consciousness of the Arab leadership, plus the necessary time to prepare and coordinate details. Tisha B’Av just happened to be at about the time I was thinking anyway, so it seemed a convenient date to go for, as even if it’s not a very significant holiday it would still likely leave Israel slightly less prepared than on a normal weekend. Waiting until Yom Kippur, two months later, would give that much more time for their plans to be discovered (although they had been anyway) and for the international situation to change.
Such was my reasoning, anyway! Do please let me know if it seems unlikely or if a better date suggests itself. The war itself I saw as pretty much an inevitable result of the geopolitics of the region.
Looking forward to it!
naraht said:Also, another thing to consider in iTTL, (to the point of possible Retconning the last part of the war description). With the US support of Israel weaker in the war, with Saudi forces apparently not participating and particularly without the followup sale of arms supplies and appropriations by the Nixon administration, there may not be a complete embargo by Saudi Arabia and OPEC.
Here you go!
"The First Woman in Space - Part 2"
Another great chapter!
The only part I'm not sure about is Star City.
Looking forward to the next!
Thanks for the kind and encouraging words. To be honest I did think about whether Star City was appropriate, and checked back through the thread for clarification - do you want to suggest an alternative wording and I'll edit it?
This will be the base for the Orel cosmonauts and they'll conduct atmospheric testing and training from Chkalovsky, and they'll use that name to refer to it.
Sound reasonable?