Plan a Successful Sealion!

Because I haven't seen this before... (not a joke)

Most of the time, people kneejerk "Impossible" when they hear Sealion. Then they explain what was wrong with the OTL plan. That's all well and good, but what if the Nazis hadn't been so bloody stupid? People tend to start off, and then say, "But of course that wouldn't be OTL Sealion, so we should forget it entirely". Why?

Your challenge, then, should you choose to accept it, is to create a plausible invasion of Great Britain by the Third Reich, with a POD no earlier than 1933.
 
What have you unleashed?

OK, I'll start: For any German invasion of the UK mainland in WW2 to be successful, any war with the USSR has to be postponed until the UK has been mopped up.
 

MrP

Banned
Well, the sea lanes need to be open and there need to be purpose-built landing craft for crossing the Channel. Weather must be within acceptable limits, too. There must be air superiority/supremacy. The RN's light forces must be countered or destroyed, and the heavier vessels kept at bay or destroyed/beaten off. My initial thoughts - navally - tend toward a Franco-German rapprochement to provide a stronger fleet to counter the RN. This will also handily tie down RN units in the Mediterranean - as the Regia Marina did IOTL.

Once ashore the attackers should face a weak enemy. We can accomplish this by either having a bad regular British army or by shifting a good one overseas at the crucial moment. Major problems in India, perhaps? Or there's always tying down a BEF on the Continent. But that's a little clichéd for Sealion. ;)

Supply lines for the invaders must be kept open - this means control of ports, plenty of merchantmen, and continuing dominance in the Channel. It would be preferable if the British had no plans drawn up for an invasion, but since the invasion needs landing craft, that's laughably implausible. So have a good plan and a bad commander, a plodder who fails to react to the movements of the invaders. I'm sure we've got plenty of silly chaps from OTL who can do service here!

An weak PM will be helpful, of course. Perhaps a scandal has just struck the government and he was on the verge of resignation when war struck or perhaps there have been social problems for which his government is blamed.

I'm sure I'll think of more later . . .
 
As much as I'd like to see a successful Sealion, I just can't come up with any plausable way for it to happen.

A stronger Kriegsmarine will help, but the RN will simply outbuild them and any increase in KM strength means fewer tanks and aircraft. Britain has an empire available for manpower and materials, Germany doesn't.

If somehow Hitler can convince Stalin to go along with this and provide Germany with troops and material it might work, but I find Hitler and Stalin working together on Sealion (or anything for that matter) about as likely as skiing in Death Valley in August.
 

MrP

Banned
As much as I'd like to see a successful Sealion, I just can't come up with any plausable way for it to happen.

A stronger Kriegsmarine will help, but the RN will simply outbuild them and any increase in KM strength means fewer tanks and aircraft. Britain has an empire available for manpower and materials, Germany doesn't.

If somehow Hitler can convince Stalin to go along with this and provide Germany with troops and material it might work, but I find Hitler and Stalin working together on Sealion (or anything for that matter) about as likely as skiing in Death Valley in August.

With a '33 PoD, we don' need Hitler, old boy. :)
 

bard32

Banned
Because I haven't seen this before... (not a joke)

Most of the time, people kneejerk "Impossible" when they hear Sealion. Then they explain what was wrong with the OTL plan. That's all well and good, but what if the Nazis hadn't been so bloody stupid? People tend to start off, and then say, "But of course that wouldn't be OTL Sealion, so we should forget it entirely". Why?

Your challenge, then, should you choose to accept it, is to create a plausible invasion of Great Britain by the Third Reich, with a POD no earlier than 1933.

Well, the first thing I'd do is to reduce the RAF to such a state that won't be
able to defend Britain. That would mean having Winston Churchill send all the RAF's fighters to France. Then the very first thing I'd do is to ignore the
ships in the English Channel and proceed immediately to the radar stations.
Take those out, and the British would be blind, and my fighters could proceed on to attack the RAF's fighters on the ground. After that, once I'd
established air superiority, I'd order my fighters and dive-bombers to attack
the ships in the Channel. Then I'd make it possible for the landing barges to
land troops on British soil for the first time since the Battle of Hastings in 1066.
 

MrP

Banned
Well, the first thing I'd do is to reduce the RAF to such a state that won't be
able to defend Britain. That would mean having Winston Churchill send all the RAF's fighters to France. Then the very first thing I'd do is to ignore the
ships in the English Channel and proceed immediately to the radar stations.
Take those out, and the British would be blind, and my fighters could proceed on to attack the RAF's fighters on the ground. After that, once I'd
established air superiority, I'd order my fighters and dive-bombers to attack
the ships in the Channel. Then I'd make it possible for the landing barges to
land troops on British soil for the first time since the Battle of Hastings in 1066.

Actually, as recently as the Napoleonic Wars the French landed a (risible) expeditionary force in Wales, old boy.
 
Your challenge, then, should you choose to accept it, is to create a plausible invasion of Great Britain by the Third Reich, with a POD no earlier than 1933.

For all the often-repeated reasons, a cross-Channel invasion is out. However, could the following work?

Germany decides in 1939 that the Britain Has To Go. SO, the first step is to husband the fleet for the event, no wasting ships up in Norway. Instead, they pull the Norway operation on Southern Ireland, a neutral state independent of the UK. Do it the same way, ships loaded with troops gun their way into Irish ports and seize them, then follow up with merchant ships. Assuming Ireland collapses pretty quickly, that can then be used as a springboard for an attack on Britain's western coastline. Fighters based in Ireland can get to a whole load more than the southern 10 percent of the country, that makes the job of taking down the RAF easier.

Does that sound practical? Or even plausible?
 
For all the often-repeated reasons, a cross-Channel invasion is out. However, could the following work?

Germany decides in 1939 that the Britain Has To Go. SO, the first step is to husband the fleet for the event, no wasting ships up in Norway. Instead, they pull the Norway operation on Southern Ireland, a neutral state independent of the UK. Do it the same way, ships loaded with troops gun their way into Irish ports and seize them, then follow up with merchant ships. Assuming Ireland collapses pretty quickly, that can then be used as a springboard for an attack on Britain's western coastline. Fighters based in Ireland can get to a whole load more than the southern 10 percent of the country, that makes the job of taking down the RAF easier.

Does that sound practical? Or even plausible?

The UK will personally blow Ireland into orbit before they let the Germans have it.

More importantly, the Allies will have much better air cover (out of Wales, if nothing else) than they did in Norway.
 
Wouldn't a German invasion of Ireland piss off the United States more severely than they already were at German invasion of Europe in OTL?
 
Seriously though, there's no military leader in World War Two who's as hyped up, wanked up, or overrated as Rommel; the only other person who's even close is Patton.

I just don't understand it.
 

MrP

Banned
Seriously though, there's no military leader in World War Two who's as hyped up, wanked up, or overrated as Rommel; the only other person who's even close is Patton.

I just don't understand it.

Zhukov, maybe?

Everyone likes their tragic anti-heroes, I think, and Rommel, an honourable man fighting for the baddies is always going to be noticed. Plus, of course, he fought us in the desert for ages, which is a campaign more widely (albeit not necessarily well) known in the Anglophone world, I suspect, than the Balkan or Russian theatres.
 
Top