With a POD of Hitler's rise to power in 1933, reform the german armed forces, military industrial complex and war doctrine so that sealion can successfully go ahead in 1940.
AHC: Fix Sealion
- Thread starter idontlikesand
- Start date
This is a hard thing. Nothing would scare London more than a larger than OTL naval production. Likely event is a war somewhere around 1936-38 with United Kingdom supporting France and the targets of early German aggression. The planned navy is far from complete and meet a mixed faith of sunk in harbour, sunk on sortie and scrapped/paused.
The problem is that once the RN gets a whiff of Plan Z then there will be an instant response - the Lion class gets built, the Audacious class gets built and maybe even some version of the Malta class. Plus by 1945 Castle Bromwich will be punching Spitfires out by the thousands.
Not only that, they wouldn't allow any delay of the war. A key to British appeasement was the limit on German naval armament of the Anglo-German naval agreement of 1935. This treaty would not exist or be scrapped earlier. United Kingdom would go to war against an even more bankrupt Germany trying to increase their navy beyond the realm of possibility.
Actually, would this be slightly possible if the USA collapses into civil war, the USSR becomes seriously isolationist, and Japan decides to take advantage to strike against the UK 2 years early?
Without the USA and USSR in the picture, 1941 Japan could probably manage to at least stalemate the British fleet and launch an invasion.... if they weren't on the opposite side of the world. How prohibitive would the logistics (and political considerations for such a comprehensive German-Japanese undertaking) be, and how difficult would it be to get their ships and material into Europe to support a German invasion?
Without the USA and USSR in the picture, 1941 Japan could probably manage to at least stalemate the British fleet and launch an invasion.... if they weren't on the opposite side of the world. How prohibitive would the logistics (and political considerations for such a comprehensive German-Japanese undertaking) be, and how difficult would it be to get their ships and material into Europe to support a German invasion?
Saphroneth
Banned
Since the German economy was basically operating at capacity and staggering from near-crisis to near-crisis to bare survival through the whole of the Nazi era(cf. Tooze), there's very little you can do to improve matters by simply producing more things than OTL.
So, you can apportion them differently. Which runs into a major problem. In fact, more than one.
Moving resources navy-wards can cause two independent problems.
1) If you reduce the Army or the land-centric Air Force, you can end up losing the battle of France. (Actually, even if you increase them you might lose that battle, because it was so incredibly lucky OTL.)
2) If you increase the Navy, then you alarm Britain earlier. Quite frankly, Germany absolutely can not win a naval race with Britain. It's a matter of superior designers, superior workers, superior materials access and a huge starting lead.
So, you can move resources around inside the Navy. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Goring suffers some kind of epiphany and allows for naval air power without throwing a hissy fit.
Let's also assume that the German navy can produce world-class torpedo bombers, they can build as many as the USN has at this point, and the Royal Navy somehow doesn't take notice.
Great. Except that the RN literally invented carrier aviation, and they certainly aren't going to let a Luftwaffe carrier arm go unanswered. So you have a force of a few hundred land-based torpedo bombers with, frankly, uninspiring performance (think Douglas TBD Devastator would be comparable), with perhaps two carriers at most to use them from on top of that. And, because the resources came from the navy, either the Kriegsmarine has no surface capital ships or it has no escorts or it has basically no submarines.
The RN can wipe the floor with the carriers. Carrier aviation doesn't become decisive outside port strike until at least 1941.
The land based torpedo bombers are a threat, but not a decisive one. They're meat on the table unless they operate within escort fighter range - which means Bf109 range, basically. Ultimately, they can apply additional attrition to the Royal Navy until they're expended, which will happen in proportion to the intensity of their use.
So, you can apportion them differently. Which runs into a major problem. In fact, more than one.
Moving resources navy-wards can cause two independent problems.
1) If you reduce the Army or the land-centric Air Force, you can end up losing the battle of France. (Actually, even if you increase them you might lose that battle, because it was so incredibly lucky OTL.)
2) If you increase the Navy, then you alarm Britain earlier. Quite frankly, Germany absolutely can not win a naval race with Britain. It's a matter of superior designers, superior workers, superior materials access and a huge starting lead.
So, you can move resources around inside the Navy. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Goring suffers some kind of epiphany and allows for naval air power without throwing a hissy fit.
Let's also assume that the German navy can produce world-class torpedo bombers, they can build as many as the USN has at this point, and the Royal Navy somehow doesn't take notice.
Great. Except that the RN literally invented carrier aviation, and they certainly aren't going to let a Luftwaffe carrier arm go unanswered. So you have a force of a few hundred land-based torpedo bombers with, frankly, uninspiring performance (think Douglas TBD Devastator would be comparable), with perhaps two carriers at most to use them from on top of that. And, because the resources came from the navy, either the Kriegsmarine has no surface capital ships or it has no escorts or it has basically no submarines.
The RN can wipe the floor with the carriers. Carrier aviation doesn't become decisive outside port strike until at least 1941.
The land based torpedo bombers are a threat, but not a decisive one. They're meat on the table unless they operate within escort fighter range - which means Bf109 range, basically. Ultimately, they can apply additional attrition to the Royal Navy until they're expended, which will happen in proportion to the intensity of their use.