AHC:Japanized Korea

Greetings,AH.Com.

As a part of my research on my TL,is there any possiblities,given the Sengoku era-POD..

that Korea will be finally "Japanized" culturally?

can you do it?
 
Japanized I doubt it, they had close ties to China and if your going to do a repeat of the Imjin war with just an Uesugi Shogunate. I assume they would still resist as in OTL.
 
In short, no. It would be extremely unlikely, if not impossible.

In terms of military conquest akin to the Imjin War, I discussed here why it would be essentially impossible for Japan to conquer and hold the peninsula, as numerous generals and admirals operated across the peninsula independently of the government, stalling the Japanese before the Chinese eventually interfered. An earlier war wouldn't have made a significant difference considering the fact that Joseon had continuously stationed at least 50,000 soldiers along the northern border against the Jurchen, most of which would be immediately recalled south if the Japanese appeared. A later war could have been much more disastrous for Japan, as Gwanghaegun, Seonjo's successor, was a skilled diplomat, and might have been successful in reforming the government and the military after avoiding the chaotic aftermath of the Imjin War, strengthening Korea in the long term.

Significant cultural changes are also out of the picture considering that China had wielded a disproportionate influence on both countries for over a millennia at the time, not to mention that before the Imjin War, Korea had considered the Japanese as disorganized "barbarians" that had continued to raid the peninsula, as the wokou had continued to operate for centuries. Removing China's influence would essentially require a PoD before 300 BC, but this would make it much more likely for Korea to influence Japan, as it had done IOTL from AD 300 to 700. In fact, Japan was somewhat "Koreanized" by Korea due to the Imjin War, as numerous scholars and artisans were kidnapped, many of which significantly impacted the development of Japanese philosophy, technology, and culture, suggesting that the reverse would most likely not occur given the conditions allowing cultural transfers. On the other hand, Korea has been somewhat "Japanized" IOTL, mostly due to importing terminology for western concepts, but many of these terms were borrowed into Chinese and Vietnamese as well, and was a byproduct of Japan's expansion starting in the late 19th century, which occurred due to complex interlocking factors.
 
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Well not even the cultural genocide inflicted upon the Koreans during the Japanese colonial period actually resulted in completely assimilating them into Japanese society. (ie: adopting Japanese names, theft of Korean artifacts)
 
Well not even the cultural genocide inflicted upon the Koreans during the Japanese colonial period actually resulted in completely assimilating them into Japanese society. (ie: adopting Japanese names, theft of Korean artifacts)

This too.

It's also important to note that the Japanese attempts at cultural genocide were not half-hearted, as it established a historical committee in 1925 that, for over a decade, created hundreds of volumes severely distorting Korean history, not to mention altering, destroying, or relocating tens of thousands of historical texts/cultural artifacts to Japan, the vast majority of which have not been returned. None of these decisions caused Korea to widely retain Japanese customs after WWII, although some superficial aspects remained.
 
I'm by no means an expert on any of this but not regarding a pod concerning the imjin war.
A earlier unified japan without a Sakoku period (and also not beeing bullied by european powers) could emerge stronger in early 19th century, mabye strong enough to take over korea.

On the topic of cultural changes, these things dont change in a decade or two.
Following european examples you need something between 2-3 generations (~50-70 years) to fully implement the language (One step towards "japanizing"), and that's of course dependent on how much resistance the japanese encounter.

Also the Qing (as long as they are strong enough) wont let japan do as it likes on the peninsular.

Just my 2 cents.
 
A earlier unified japan without a Sakoku period (and also not beeing bullied by european powers) could emerge stronger in early 19th century, mabye strong enough to take over korea.

Yes, but the Sakoku policy was implemented in part due to the Imjin War, meaning that the war would almost certainly need to be averted for Japanese isolation to be butterflied away entirely. As a result, Joseon might be more free to focus on expanding into Manchuria, allowing it to be much more prepared when the Japanese attempt to interfere.

On the topic of cultural changes, these things dont change in a decade or two.
Following european examples you need something between 2-3 generations (~50-70 years) to fully implement the language (One step towards "japanizing"), and that's of course dependent on how much resistance the japanese encounter.

Given the stiff resistance that occurred IOTL, it would be virtually impossible for the Koreans to be assimilated before the Japanese are eventually kicked out.

Also the Qing (as long as they are strong enough) wont let japan do as it likes on the peninsular.

This too, although if there is no Imjin War, the Ming could last longer.
 
Though here's a question: did modern day North Korea actually succeeded in preserving their own culture more than their South Korean counterparts, or is it the other way around?
 
Though here's a question: did modern day North Korea actually succeeded in preserving their own culture more than their South Korean counterparts, or is it the other way around?

Hard to tell, given that North Korea is extremely reclusive. Given the limited information available, along with scattered testimony from defectors, broadcast material is often a façade of reality, while outside media and products are smuggled in through the black market. The North tends to have more Soviet and Chinese influences, although the ideology is mostly based on Japanese fascism, while the South has more American influences. These factors also carry over to terminology, and while the North tends to use more traditional orthography and pronunciation, along with more "native" vocabulary, the latter often incorporates artificially constructed terminology without solid basis in etymology.

The North might also retain more "traditional" customs in general, but they're generally restricted to rural regions, in which case the South retains them to a degree as well.
 
Hard to tell, given that North Korea is extremely reclusive. Given the limited information available, along with scattered testimony from defectors, broadcast material is often a façade of reality, while outside media and products are smuggled in through the black market. The North tends to have more Soviet and Chinese influences, although the ideology is mostly based on Japanese fascism, while the South has more American influences. These factors also carry over to terminology, and while the North tends to use more traditional orthography and pronunciation, along with more "native" vocabulary, the latter often incorporates artificially constructed terminology without solid basis in etymology.

The North might also retain more "traditional" customs in general, but they're generally restricted to rural regions, in which case the South retains them to a degree as well.

North Korean Juche must have been a one, big, fat irony since it is based on a kind of fascist system that their former Japanese overlords used. Though there is the issue of Korean artifacts that the Japanese government hasn't yet returned to South Korea. Then there's also the Japanese claim that Japan and Korea were of the same nation due to the legend that a princess or queen ended up in Japan after she fled from Korea, a legend that I don't know well.
 
North Korean Juche must have been a one, big, fat irony since it is based on a kind of fascist system that their former Japanese overlords used. Though there is the issue of Korean artifacts that the Japanese government hasn't yet returned to South Korea. Then there's also the Japanese claim that Japan and Korea were of the same nation due to the legend that a princess or queen ended up in Japan after she fled from Korea, a legend that I don't know well.

Yeah, that was pretty ironic. I also addressed the artifact issue earlier, and it's probably not something that can be resolved soon.

Regarding the relationship between Korea and Japan, the historiography from both sides tends to get complicated, of which many components were fabricated for various reasons. The Samguk Yusa claims that a Silla fisherman supposedly got lost and landed on Japan, after which he and his wife were eventually proclaimed as the first king and queen, although this has never been historically verified. On the other hand, Japan began to interpret passages from the Nihon Shoki as basis for the fact that Jingu supposedly "conquered" Korea (which was divided among five major entities at the time), although no archeological evidence has been found, and there are no corresponding details within Korean sources. In addition, the Kojiki does not mention any similar events, and there is virtually no way to verify the chronology of the early Japanese rulers, many of whom may have been fabricated. Another theory proposed that the Japanese rulers were originally located on the Korean peninsula, but the Koreans eventually revolted and established their own rulers, while the deposed ruler was forced to flee to Japan, suggesting that the Koreans were subservient. These theories, along with others, such as one implying that Gojoseon originated as a Chinese colony, were used to justify the Imjin War and the Japanese colonization of Korea, although none of them have been historically verified.

In other words, Japan took pains to fabricate historical justification for rule over Korea, many of which were incorporated by the historical committee that I mentioned earlier. However, various historical and archeological evidence all suggest that for at least four centuries, Korea transmitted culture and technology to Japan, many of which originated from China, although some were later imported directly from China, not to mention immigration and widespread trading/diplomatic contacts among the countries involved.
 
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So the East Asian history that we probably know may have a 50% chance that it might have been fabricated?

Well, many of the details concerning the earliest rulers of China, Korea, and Japan were probably based on historical figures, but arbitrarily had their reigns projected backward in order to give the appearance that their respective civilizations had been in place far longer than they had been. For example, the Yellow Emperor probably did not rule Tianxia before 2500 BC, while Dangun Wanggeom probably did not establish Gojoseon in 2333 BC, and Jimmu probably did not exist in 660 BC. All of the states mentioned consolidated much later than their supposed foundation dates, and the trend continued for some successor states, as Baekje, Gaya, and Silla were probably not consolidated until around AD 250-350, but all claimed to be established several centuries before then. Propaganda was also rampant, as the Yellow Emperor supposedly fought Chi You, which may or may not have been true, while various Korean states often made spurious claims (according to the Gwanggaeto Stele, Goguryeo supposedly vassalized Baekje, Gaya, and Silla before 391, which was not the case), and Japanese rulers supposedly ruled a "unified" Japan long before 500, although actual control probably shifted among various competing statelets.

That being said, however, not everything is inaccurate, and details generally tend to be more accurate for China after 700 BC, Korea after AD 200-300, and Japan after AD 500.
 
Just as many Classic People took Gods, traditions, and trades from neighbors and made them their own, so it seems the Koreans and Japanese did the same from China. Reworking their history and rulers to fit the times and crimes that they wish while having only a small scattering of the truth.

Heck look at what modern politicians are doing today on the internet. :rolleyes:
 
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