British after DEFEATED Sealion

KillerT

aha I know what you were all thinking-another Sealion thread?

But no, forsooth hath it not be said that man shall not utter the dreaded S word without first bowing down and admitting that it suffereth from great implausability?

So S has been defeated. There are well in excess of 50K POW's including Erwin Rommel. The stock of Rhine barges has never been lower. The Luftwaffe has been given a bloody nose, a black eye, and broken ribs. The Kriegsmarine? Well it was there a minute ago Mein fuhrer but where it is now? (hmm how to say bottom of the Channel/N Sea without getting a one way ticket somewhere deeply unpleasant...)

So hows things in Britain? Over to you to speculate your hearts out!
 

KillerT

hmm I was sort of thinking-and after the dancing in the streets malarky... (oops do we owe any wonga to Messrs Bowie and May?)
 

BlairWitch749

Banned
I don't think the picture is too much brighter than it was in the fall of 1940 (even saying they captured/destroyed 4-8 German divisions) There will be fear that the Germans will try again (unfounded but will still exist) and Germany's field army is still 3x what Britain can ever put into the field; so until they get a war buddy (Russia/USA) they are still going it alone and at a loss for strategic options to defeat Germany
 
Cook

Cook

Banned
KillerT said:
The Luftwaffe has been given a bloody nose, a black eye, and broken ribs.
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One of the requirements for Sealion to be given the go-ahead was for the Royal Air Force to be defeated and the Luftwaffe to establish air superiority over the English Channel.

Luftwaffe with a bloody nose and broken ribs means no Sealion, it’s an either/or situation.
 

KillerT

The Luftingwaffle got its kicking as it hadn't eliminated the RAF as an ongoing and developing threat-much to the chagrin of all those JU52 pilots who went down with their planes and fallshys...or the JU87s...etc etc.
No-one has said anything yet about nearly every barge gone from the Rhine....

So there are 50K POW's, around 50K KIA, another similar number wounded, all the JU52 fleet gone (well pretty much most of it-along with all those experienced crews), the KM has gone, the Fallshy's are gone.

UK forces-Home Fleet has had a major mauling-assume loss of 45%. RAF is now rebuilding but is greatly reduced (but due to greater industrial output and training overseas is rebuilding far more speedily than LW), the UK army is rebuilding-getting lots and lots of Valentines, the Auxilliers proved their worth and raiding companies are being formed to carry the fight across the water....

(have a think about what impact that has)
 

fort-capuzzo

Banned
What effect would it have on the Balkan campaign and the Invasion of Russia?
Would it change Hitler's strategic thinking?
 

The Red

Why is Rommel a prisoner? Even if he was involved in the operation he or any of the rest of the high command wouldn't be going across, it would be deemed much too risky to land at such an early stage in the operation or even cross the Channel (it's arguable which is more deadly). Although I now have a great image of Rommel striding onto the beach with a corn cob pipe only to be gunned down by a Bren. :D
 

KillerT

C1940 Rommel wasn't the field marshal he was to become, instead he was a divisional commander so very definitely going in with his boys as any div commander would. So he gets captured. Didn't want to have the old boy killed. So he's now esconced in a very comfortable POW camp thinking 'we really do have a maniac in charge over there after all'

(long term who's up for seeing a KGL Mk3? )

(KGL was a legion -ie all arms force- in the employ of KG3 fighting through the Peninsular Wars and at Waterloo, post W it helped create the regular Hanoverian army and believe it or not several regts wore the Peninsular and Waterloo battle honours on their helmets facing (their former) partner regiments (like the KOYLI, RB and KRRC) across the Somme and at Ypres; KGL Mk2 was created in the Crimean War but not long lived and none too auspicious either, so this new Kings German Legion....hmmm)(oh there was actually a kind of KGL3 in UK as there were well in excess of 2000 Germans and Austrians who fought in the British army-several in SAS and 21st and 22nd Indep Companies AAC)
 

The Red

KillerT said:
C1940 Rommel wasn't the field marshal he was to become, instead he was a divisional commander so very definitely going in with his boys as any div commander would. So he gets captured. Didn't want to have the old boy killed. So he's now esconced in a very comfortable POW camp thinking 'we really do have a maniac in charge over there after all'
Click to expand...

And how exactly do the 7th Panzer get over when in all likelihood any additional reinforcements, especially armour, other than the first wave will be held back with the Royal Navy closing off the Channel?
 
Cook

Cook

Banned
KillerT said:
The Luftingwaffle got its kicking as it hadn't eliminated the RAF…
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Hitler’s directive was clear on this; the RAF was to be eliminated prior to Sealion commencing.

‘War Directive No 16’ July 16th, 1940:
2. The following preparations must be undertaken to make a landing in England possible:
a) The English Air Force must be eliminated to such an extent that it will be incapable of putting up any substantial opposition to the invading troops.
b) The sea routes must be cleared of mines.
c) Both flanks, the Straits of Dover and the Western approaches to the channel…must be heavily mined as to be completely inaccessible.
d) Heavy coastal guns must dominate and protect the entire coastal front area…

So for Sealion to go ahead the RAF has ceased to exist as an effective fighting force.
 
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Cook

Cook

Banned
KillerT said:
C1940 Rommel wasn't the field marshal he was to become, instead he was a divisional commander so very definitely going in with his boys as any div commander would.
Click to expand...


Divisional Commander of 7th Panzer division, which would not have been in the first wave given that the Germans had no capacity to unload tanks unless they’ve secured a port.
 
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Deckhand

Not Rommel in the bag. Manstein.

He was one of the corp commanders in the first wave in the OOB's i have seen. Plus Student of course.
 
Cook

Cook

Banned
Deckhand said:
Not Rommel in the bag. Manstein.

He was one of the corp commanders in the first wave in the OOB's i have seen. Plus Student of course.
Click to expand...



Do you have a link to that please deckhand, I’ve never actually seen a specific OOB for Sealion?
 

BlairWitch749

Banned
Deckhand said:
Not Rommel in the bag. Manstein.

He was one of the corp commanders in the first wave in the OOB's i have seen. Plus Student of course.
Click to expand...

Manstein's corps was actually supposed to go into dover (his infantry where fresh and had mountain troops)

I can't see him landing in the first wave though? Division commanders (save the airborne) would even be iffy... space in the landing craft is at a premium; and they have an entourage around them who aren't the best sorts of chaps to shoot at people... those people usually don't land until there is a safe place to set up a divisional HQ (regimental commanders and lower would go in)

And Manstein as a corps commander would require even MORE resources to come with him when he lands (especially communications troops; but a ton of freaking staff officers as well)... you could maybe see him in a second or third wave (provided the beach head was somewhat secure and that they had enough territory to set up a corps command hq they would want to land him as soon as this was possible to add command and control)
 

Deckhand

In the sandhurst games the second wave was sent and got massacred in the channel, so it is at least plausible that he buys it. How does it affect the war if manstein goes glub glub?
 
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