A Completely New and Original Idea

So after working on Korean Empire and considering this and this today, and this, this, and this from before, I've decided to make a timeline that combines all those elements without seeming "ASB" at the same time. That means that nuclear weapons will not be developed before 1945, which is what happened in OTL.

I'll start by describing the OTL Mesopotamians, but I'll introduce slight and "minor" divergences throughout the thread until the world becomes similar to OTL, but still ATL and not ASB at the same time.

For the next week, everyone is welcome to throw any suggestions at me at once, and I'll try to put everything together by next Monday.

I realized that I should start off with the history of hominids before talking about Mesopotamia, so here we go.

Although hominids existed on Earth for millions of years, it was not until 1.8 million years ago when they began to emigrate out of Africa, starting with Homo erectus. Historians also suggest that they emigrated out of Africa after developing the concept of language, which allowed individuals to communicate with each other through vocal expressions.

For thousands of years, different hominids lived alongside each other, and it is assumed from the skeletons that most of them endured many vast phenomena of nature, and also could have competed with each other for natural resources, such as food. However, as time developed, each generation began to have less fur on their bodies because of natural selection, and some even began to develop the concept of weaving, and therefore discovered that clothing could be used to keep people warm in cold climates, and vice versa.

Although no one can ever be sure if all hominids were related, or if different species competed for survival, it is certain that Homo sapiens became the only remaining upright one remaining by 30,000, and began to be referred to as “humans” when the Neanderthals ceased to exist.

Therefore, although humans managed to establish themselves on all continents except Antarctica, the first “civilization” was established in Mesopotamia at around 7000-5000 BC. Although other “civilizations” were independently established around the world, most historians have agreed that the Mesopotamian civilizations provided the most influence on history as a whole.

I didn’t want to go into too much detail because I’m pretty sure that most of us know about the history of human beings, but any suggestions are welcome.

I curious about where this is going. It will be interesting to see the balance that will be found.

Interesting idea, looking forward to the next update.

You know, some people will say that a difference even tiny so far back is going to change everything. But I say at that point it's just as likely to end up similar to our own reality as any other. Good luck!

I'd like to thank everyone for the positive criticism, and would also like to state that I'd also like to draw inspiration from:

Ender's Game/Shadow by Orson Scott Card, and

Catch 22 by Joseph Heller.

Turtledove's works might also influence me a bit, but it seems a bit too "ASB," so I'll try to stay away from it.

The next update will be sometime between Saturday and Monday.

Also, I realized that personally, this will be good review for my four upcoming AP exams in early May.

democracy101 said:

I've decided to make a timeline that combines all those elements without seeming "ASB" at the same time. That means that nuclear weapons will not be developed before 1945, which is what happened in OTL.

Click to expand...

I don't think you know exactly what ASB means. There's nothing special about the year 1945 that means that nukes can't be developed before that time. It just has to be internally plausible

Well, in reality, I know what you're trying to say, but if you looked at each of the links I provided in the first post in this thread, you'll see why I said that.

Basically, I'm trying to prove that the terms "OTL," "ATL," and "ASB" really does not make a difference as a whole when you look at the whole picture. If somehow, a group of intelligent species on another planet decided to invade Earth for whatever reason, then the "ASB" that we took as granted will suddenly become "OTL," and I'm not even going to talk about OTL/ATL scenarios.

Does that help?

Due to the recent power outages in the area where I live, I have decided to type up the info as quickly as possible, so most of it might seem jumbled and incoherent for a while.



Before moving into the discussions concerning the rise and fall of civilizations, it is reasonable to state that the concept of music was the major impetus for these structures.

Although people are uncertain about what happened from 7000-3000 BC, it can be stated that by 3000-2900 BC, the first stable Sumerian/Mesopotamian civilization was founded. Two of the reasons for a stable civilization in the area were fertile land and natural resources. However, there was erratic flooding, which was very hard to predict. As a result, although the overall concept of “Mesopotamia” stayed the same, there were series of civilizations that developed in the area because it was very open to invasion.

Simply put, these were grouped into the Early (2900-2000 BC), Middle (2000-1700 BC), and Late Bronze Ages (1600-1100 BC), and then the Iron Age (1100-600 BC).

Generally, the Sumerian civilizations flourished during the Early Bronze Age, the Babylonian civilizations flourished during the Middle Bronze and Iron Ages, the Assyrian civilizations flourished during the Middle Bronze, Late Bronze, and Iron Ages, and the Hittite civilization flourished during the early Iron Age.

Meanwhile, other civilizations had developed independently throughout the world. The first Egyptian civilizations were founded in 6000 BC, with the arrival of Neolithic culture in the area, but the first unified Egyptian civilization was not established until 3150 BC under King Menes.

Although most historians group the Mesopotamian and Egyptian civilizations together because both were located in the Fertile Crescent, which was named because of its shape and the abundance of natural resources there, there were clear differences between the two. Both experienced flooding, but while the ones in Mesopotamia occurred without warning, the Egyptian ones were constant, and Egyptian mathematicians were eventually able to predict when and where the flooding was going to occur. Eventually, as Egyptians began building bigger and better houses, the mathematicians began to devise formulas for calculating the areas of the structures.

The other two major civilizations which developed during this time were the Indus Valley Civilization, which flourished from about 2600-1900 BC, and the Chinese civilizations, which were primarily the Xia (2070-1600 BC), Shang (1600-1046 BC), and the Zhou (1045-256 BC). The Indus Valley Civilization fell to invaders from what is now southern Russia, yet significant elements continued to exist for a couple of hundred years. Meanwhile, in China, the feudal system started to break down in 770 BC, and completely disintegrated starting in 475 BC.

Meanwhile, Gojoseon, which had been founded at around 2333 BC under Dangun Wanggeom, began to establish itself in the northern Korean peninsula and southern Manchuria. Its inhabitants were Altaic, and although it is hard to distinguish between fact and myth, it can be assumed that the Bronze Age occurred in Korea from about 800-400 BC.



That will be it for now. I'll talk about Judaism in the next update, and then introduce the POD, which occurs when something happens to Ying Zheng . . .

Although the factual details of Judaism are heavily contested, it is clear that out of the major religions of the world, it provided the most influence on history as a whole, especially because it was a monotheistic religion when most of the ones at the time were polytheistic or pantheistic.

Because most of the information on Isrealites comes from the Torah, Bible, and the Quran, which are considered the "Abrahamic religions," most of the factual events have to be conjectured from the textual evidence. Although there are significant differences between the three religions, which are in part due to cultural differences, all agree that Abraham was the father of the people of Israel. Jews and Christians concur that Issac was the rightful heir of Abraham, while Muslims state that Ishmael inherited Abraham's property and was therefore the ancestor of Muhammad.

However, as a whole, Jews hold that Abraham was the founder of Israel, Christians hold that although Abraham established the foundation for Christianity, Jesus was the Messiah who spread the message outside of Israel, and Muslims hold that Muhammad was the last and greatest prophet. These disagreements served as a huge part for the wars waged by the three religious entities, both within and against each other, for hundreds of years to come.

Meanwhile, in Asia, there were several "Eastern religions" which developed independently of the "Abrahamic religions." In India, the major religions were Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism. In East Asia, the major religions were Taoism, Confucianism, and Shinto. After East Asians had contact with India, they began to integrate Buddhism into their theologies and made it a religion of their own.

Although it can be stated that Hinduism was the basis for the other three Indian religions, and Taoism was the basis for the other two/three East Asian religions, the concept of comparing the "Abrahamic religions" with the "Eastern religions" does not exist in Asia, and therefore it is difficult to conclusively compare the two without expressing cultural differences between the "East" and the "West."



I'll try to introduce the POD in the next post.

Awesome!

This is great! Can't wait to see more!

Before introducing the POD, I thought it would be useful if I presented my condensed (non-exhaustive) version of Chinese and Korean dynasties, as they will be most affected by this timeline. However, it took me about ten days to type up, and is longer that I thought it would be. As a result, I have decided to split each countries' dynasties into three sections. I hope that my analysis, somewhat backed by archeological evidence, written records, and etymological analysis of city names will provide the support for the upcoming ATL. Italics indicate that the evidence is mostly conjectural.

China (Xia to Han):

Xia (2070?-1600? BC): The first Chinese dynasty acknowledged in China, although disputed elsewhere. Although preceded by the Three Sovereigns and Five Emperors (3500?-2000? BC) in some Chinese texts, this period, founded by Fu Xi, is mostly assumed to be mythological. Founded by Yu the Great, the Xia, through archeological evidence, is assumed to have been established around the Huang He river valley. In China, this civilization is linked with the Erlitou culture, although a lack of written evidence supporting this idea renders this hypothesis mostly conjectural.

Shang (Yin) (1600?-1046? BC): The first Chinese dynasty acknowledged outside of China. It was founded by King Tang, who overthrew the last Xia emperor, King Jie, according to Chinese records. It ruled the North China Plain, according to several archeological sites, although there is no absolute evidence that the societies in the area were unified under one ruler. In addition, there were also other distinct advanced cultures in the area, suggesting that they were not the only significant society/civilization. They were also the first Chinese civilization to develop writing, which were found on oracle bones for divination, and are considered precursors to modern Chinese characters.

Zhou (1046?-256 BC): The longest ruling Chinese dynasty, although it lost effective control in 722 BC (Eastern Zhou) due to the Spring and Autumn Period in which numerous fiefdoms claimed autonomy. Although the people who established the dynasty were from the western border region of the Shang, they adopted Chinese customs and essentially integrated themselves into the dominant society. They also established the Mandate of Heaven to justify King Wu's overthrow of King Zhou, stating that able leaders were allowed to overthrow corrupt rulers when they lost the right to rule. Similar to the Shang, archeological evidence proves that they ruled around the same area.

Spring and Autumn/Warring States Periods (771-480 BC, 475-221 BC): After the Zhou collapsed and the kings ruled in name only, various leaders vied for control for more than 500 years, causing widespread disorder due to numerous campaigns through raising troops and money. Some of the first recorded Chinese philosophers lived during these periods, such as Laozi, Confucius, Mencius, Sunzi, and Han Feizi, who attempted to rationalize the state of affairs and explained how to reestablish order through recognition of one's place in society/nature or through military means. During the Warring States Period, the various states were either absorbed or consolidated into seven main states, namely the Chu, Qin, Yan, Han, Wei, Qi, and Zhou. Starting in 230, the Qin under Ying Zheng began to conquer the remaining kingdoms, and although the remaining independent ones attempted to form an alliance, they failed to effectively stop his advance, and was quickly (re)unified within nine years after the Qi fell.

Qin (778/221-207 BC): The first and shortest Chinese imperial dynasty, and one theory suggests that the name 'China' came from this dynasty. Like the Zhou, it was originally established in the western frontier, but eventually expanded into modern-day Sichuan and came into conflict with the Chu, which had expanded into Wu, a non-Chinese region at the time. Under Ying Zheng, the kingdom adapted a Legalist philosophy by using military means to aggressively consolidate territory, leading to a relatively quick unification. After proclaiming the first imperial dynasty by changing his name to Qin Shi Huang, taken from sources of legendary emperors, he quickly attempted to consolidate his rule by promoting his militaristic philosophy. He also unified standards of measurement, philosophy, and way of life, while rearranging the states into more manageable chunks, and standardizing the Chinese characters, which had gone through diverse developments in each of the Warring States. In this process, he burned numerous texts and killed many scholars, leading to many permanent losses. The emperor also built the Great Wall, which would be rebuilt by succeeding unified dynasties, by unifying previous walls in the area and forcing the masses to build the structure to protect the country from invasion. Soon after his death in 210, however, the people revolted against the tyrannical institution, causing a brief civil war which was resolved when the Han extinguished the newly risen Chu.

Han (206/2 BC-AD 220): The longest ruling Chinese imperial dynasty, and only one of two founded by a commoner. Liu Bang, later Emperor Gaozu of Han, was a peasant who joined local revolts to overthrow the Qin, and quickly rose to power by gathering followers. He later narrowly escaped an assassination attempt by the Chu and won a string of military victories, forcing the enemy to submit. It was also the first to conquer Vietnam in 111 BC, which would be under Chinese rule until 939 and later from 1407-27 with minor interruptions. The dynasty also promoted Confucianism as a better alternative to Legalism, although the two would remain prevalent ideologies for succeeding dynasties, and was the first to chronicle history along with flourishing art and culture. Some innovations included paper in 105, smelting methods, agricultural tools, the water clock, and the seismometer in 132, along with treatises on math. Meanwhile, the trader Zhang Qian helped to create the Silk Road, which is still used today. Although it was the first Chinese dynasty to expand into Central Asia (Xinjiang), it was beset by invasions from the Xiongnu and Xianbei, northern nomadic tribes, and the relationships were mostly equal as both sides paid tribute, and the Han was forced to send (pseudo) princesses to maintain the peace. The turmoil caused Wang Mang (9-23) to seize power and found the Xin (new) dynasty, until it was also overthrown and replaced by the Eastern Han dynasty due to extreme reforms and inability to defend against the northern tribes. Although this period mostly re-instituted and maintained former political and economic systems, it never managed to regain the glory, eventually disintegrating into warlord rule. Its division would not be repaired by unification for almost 400 years, the longest period in Chinese history excluding the division between the Zhou and Qin dynasties.

Three Kingdoms to Liao:

Three Kingdoms (184/220-280): After unifying China for more than 400 years, its foundations shook due to the Yellow Turbans Rebellion in 184, and in 213, the last Han ruler, Emperor Xian, was forced to hand over power to the warlord Cao Cao, who established the base for Cao Wei (220). Soon after, Liu Bei, a distant descendent of the Han imperial family, founded Shu (Han) (221), and Sun Quan founded (Sun) Wu (222). Although Cao Wei was the most powerful state due to its large population, and it almost reunified China within a couple of decades, Cao Cao lost the Battle of Chibi (Red Cliffs) due to his naval inexperience, prolonging the division for more than 300 years. Although Wei conquered Shu in 263, Cao Wei was usurped in 265 by the (Liang/Sima) Jin, led by Sima Yan, temporarily unifying China from 280-304 after vanquishing the Wu. However, it was soon thrown into chaos by multiple regencies from 290-307, before it fell to nomadic invasions by the Wu Hu, and the nation was divided once more.

Sixteen Kingdoms/Southern and Northern Dynasties (304-589): China was divided for more than 250 years in which numerous kingdoms were established, leading to the longest period of widespread disorder since the Warring States Period. Buddhism was also transmitted to the area during the time, becoming a significant influence for more than 400 years. The northern states were mostly established by nomadic tribes who eventually became sinicized, such as the Tuoba Wei and multiple Yan dynasties, while the south became home to numerous Han who fled the chaotic north and integrated themselves among the natives in the region, beginning its history as part of China proper. The disorder between the two regions would only come to an end when the Sui, a northern state, eventually conquered the Chen in 589 by sacking the capital and transporting some of the aristocrats north.

Sui (581/9-618/9): The first dynasty (excluding Jin) to reunify China since the Han, and also the first to be founded by a sinicized nomad. Both emperors extensively consolidated and expanded their rule by conquering neighboring regions in central and southeast Asia. Although the empire thrived during Emperor Wen's rule, he failed to conquer Goguryeo, his only major defeat. His son, Emperor Yang, then built the Grand Canal to facilitate transportation, but then made matters worse by making numerous mistakes while attempting to conquer the defiant state. He amassed more than three million troops, the most of any Chinese dynasty, but failed to adequately cover supplies, while ordering his generals to report directly to him after each major movement, allowing Goguryeo troops to rebuild during the transmissions. One notable battle occurred at Salsu, in which the enemy opened prepared dams to drown 300,000 Sui troops, who were all but decimated. His troops eventually suffered from exhaustion during the campaigns, leading to the dynasty's steady downfall and numerous uprisings until it was overthrown by the Tang dynasty.

Tang (618-907): The largest territorial Chinese-ruled dynasty. It was founded by Li Yuan, the cousin of Emperor Yang, who was persuaded by his second son, Li Shimin, to revolt against the ineffective Sui. After defeating other numerous rivals, he became Emperor Gaozu of Tang, instituting a long period of unification, with brief interruptions, along with a golden age, that his son, Emperor Taizong, continued. After consolidating rule by instituting land and economic policies and reforms, the latter attempted to conquer Goguryeo after allying with Silla, another Korean kingdom, because Yeon Gaesomun, a general, usurped the throne by assassinating the ruler and rejected Tang demands of submission. However, the Tang was unable to conquer it until Emperor Gaozong, after Yeon Gaesomun's death. Although it attempted to retain Goguyeo by making it a protectorate, it was driven out by Silla in 676, and Balhae was established in the region in 698. The dynasty was temporarily interrupted by the Zhou dynasty (690-705) founded by Empress Wu, who was the only female regnant in Chinese history. After the Tang was restored, however, the dynasty continued to prosper. The Goguryeo general Gao Xianzhi (Go Seonji) expanded the state's domains in Central Asia and clashed with the Abbasid dynasty, until hiring numerous non-Chinese soldiers led to the An Shi uprising (755-63), undermining the central government. Meanwhile, the Tibetan Empire, which had previously demanded a Chinese princess, sacked Chang'an, the capital, in 763. It then fell into a decline with warlords exercising most of the power, until a military governor overthrew the dynasty, leading to the last widespread period of division during dynastic rule, the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms era (907-960).

Liao (907/16-1125): The first established nomadic dynasty absorbing some elements of Chinese culture. It was founded by Yelu Abaoji, who declared an era name in 916. Although it was a Khitan dynasty, it was run by both nomadic and Chinese methods, and although it was somewhat integrated into Chinese culture, inventing their version of Chinese characters to write their language (the Russian name for China is Kitai), some resisted assimilation, retaining their surnames and refusing to use Chinese even though they were fluent. Although its rulers campaigned various times against their enemies, such as the Song, Balhae, and Goryeo, it only managed to conquer Balhae. After Buddhism took hold in the region, the nomads gradually lost influence until the alliance between the Song and Jin destroyed the dynasty.

Song to Qing:

Song (960-1279): Although it unified China proper from 960-1127 (Northern Song), it was bordered by the Liao to the north, which caused considerable issues, and was the smallest imperial dynasty in size, with no claims in Central Asia. However, it flourished culturally in numerous areas such as paintings, poetry, and calligraphy, along with economic and technological developments, the most of any Chinese dynasty, causing an increase in trade within and with other countries, and a population boom, possibly reaching over 100 million. It also became the first country to produce paper money, gunpowder, and the movable type system in 1040, while inventing the navigation compass in 1088, along with becoming the first Chinese dynasty to establish a permanent navy. On the other hand, the military had little influence over the government, which possibly contributed to a weaker army and inability to expand its lands beyond its control after unification. After it was pushed south by the Jin, losing Kaifeng, its capital, establishing another in Li'nan (Hangzhou), the general Yue Fei, considered as a hero in China, scored numerous victories, maintaining its independence. It then continued to hold out against northern dynasties until it finally came to an end after losing the Battle of Yamen, paving the way for the Yuan.

Jin (1115-1234): Not to be confused with other dynasties of the same name. It was founded by Wanyan Aguda, who changed his surname from Jin. After forging an alliance with the Song to conquer the Liao, it then turned on its former ally, capturing Kaifeng and taking over Chinese territory north of the Huai river. Unlike the Liao, however, the dynasty became sinicized as thousands of nobles emigrated south to govern the natives, and some married them. Laws were also based on previous Chinese ones, allowing greater integration between the rulers and the natives. Although minor rebellions erupted within the country, and the state along with those surrounding it made numerous campaigns, the dynasty mostly held firm until the Mongols invaded in the early 13th century. The country was the only one adjacent to the Mongols to withstand Genghis Khan's invasions, although it eventually fell seven years after his death after the Song invaded from the south in concert with the northern nomads. Its fall would eventually open the path for the first non-Chinese unification of China proper.

Yuan (1271/9-1368): The first non-Chinese (excluding sinicized rulers) ruled dynasty to unify China. It also led to Chinese unification for the most part until 1911 as the two succeeding dynasties managed to consolidate rule for long periods. Although the Mongol Empire was created by Genghis Khan, it fractured into several smaller ones, of which the Yuan, located in the east, was established by Kublai Khan (Shizu), one of his grandsons. After establishing the dynasty and getting rid of contenders to the throne, he invaded the Song, defeating them in a naval battle and unifying not only China, but eventually most of East Asia. Because he had lived in China and was tutored by Chinese officials, he was able to consolidate control by utilizing both Chinese and Mongolian methods, allowing both ethnicities to serve in the government, although classes were separated by ethnicity in a loose caste system. The unification also allowed culture to flourish, along with widespread trade along the Silk Road, as its Asian routes lay entirely within the Mongol Empire. Numerous travelers and traders, such as Marco Polo and Ibn Battuta, traveled to the Yuan, while Kublai sent an ambassador to Europe to meet with the major rulers. After his death, however, succession issues weakened the state, causing it to lose legitimacy in China and expulsion north of the Great Wall after the Chinese launched numerous revolts. The Northern Yuan, however, lasted until 1635, when it submitted to the Qing.

Ming (1368-1644): The last Chinese-ruled dynasty. Zhu Yuanzhang, only the second commoner to become emperor, fought off contenders to the throne, eventually becoming the Hongwu Emperor. Because he resented the previous Yuan rule, he moved the capital to Nanjing in hopes of reviving Chinese ideals separate from nomadic ones. Soon after his death, however, one of his sons, the Yongle Emperor, shifted the capital back to Beijing, and implemented policies contradicting that of the founder. It was also the last to conquer Vietnam under his rule, holding it briefly for 20 years until the natives revolted and drove out the Chinese when they attempted to rule it as a province. The emperor also sent a fleet overseas, led by Zheng He, a Muslim eunuch, in order to learn more about cultures outside of Chinese influence, but his successor banned them because of ethnocentricity. However, even though they conquered parts of Central Asia, while bringing present-day Yunnan firmly under Chinese control for the first time, none of the emperors were able to dominate the Mongols, who kidnapped the second emperor. As a result, they rebuilt the Great Wall to prevent future invasions. Soon afterward, the dynasty prospered both economically and culturally, trading with European powers, who brought their wealth from colonizing the New World, while flourishing in the arts, causing a population increase to possibly 200 million. However, the Imjin War put a strain on Chinese resources, causing a steady decline after trade began to decrease with foreigners, while the Little Ice Age wrecked havoc on food supplies. During this time, the Jurchen, led by Nurhaci, rose in the northeast, unifying the region by taking advantage of the Ming's weakness. His successor continued his father's policies by changing the title of the state from Later Jin to Qing, while renaming the people as Manchu. After separating Joseon from the Ming, he invaded China by breaking through the Great Wall, conquering the country in 1644. However, the remnants of the Ming, led by Zheng Chenggong (Koxinga), who founded the Kingdom of Tungning (1661-83) in Formosa (Taiwan), Wu Sangui, who had betrayed his country, and others, would continue to resist until 1662. The rebels failed to push the invaders out because they were divided over who to support, causing the Qing to defeat them easily.

Qing (1644-1912): The last dynasty to retain Chinese culture. Although it was officially founded by Nurhaci, he was posthumously named Tianming by Huang Taiji, his eighth son, who conquered China. The original Jurchen state was created after initial campaigns unifying the Jianzhou Jurchens, leading Nurhaci to break ties with the Ming in order to conquer all of the tribes. He also sought alliances with the Mongolians, intermarrying nobles in order to seal alliances, while attacking those who resisted. Although he stabilized the state by instituting the Eight Banners system and inventing the Manchu alphabet, he died soon after his first major defeat, leaving his son to carry his legacy. Two of their descendents, the Kangxi and Qianlong Emperors, ruled for 61 and 60 years respectively, ushering in another golden age of flourishing Chinese culture. Military campaigns also greatly expanded the empire's territory, conquering Mongolia, Central Asia (Xinjiang), and Northeast Asia. With the exception of Outer Mongolia and Manchuria, along with Tuva, the dynasty set the boundaries for modern China, and marked the first Chinese immigration to Manchuria in the 19th century as the dynasty initially blocked it, then changed its mind after Russia began to encroach on the area. On the other hand, the Manchus began to lose their fluency in the language, becoming the only ethnic group which does not speak a non-Mandarin language, although the Xibo speak a related one. However, the prosperity did not last long, as the Russians demanded Outer Manchuria, and the British began smuggling opium in order to attempt to trade with China. Although Lin Zexu, an official, destroyed numerous opium boxes to signify opposition, this action launched the Opium Wars (1839-42, 56-60), which marked the beginning of China's division into spheres of influences, along with Hong Kong becoming a British colony until 1998. After the country's defeat in the First Sino-Japanese War (1894-5), the natives became fed up, overthrowing the dynasty in the Xinhai Revolution. China would not be unified quickly, though, as it went through the Warlord Era/Civil War (1916-28, 27-49), and still remains divided between the PRC and ROC.

Korea (Hwanguk/Baedalguk to Goguryeo):

Hwanguk/Baedalguk (7000?-2333? BC): Most of the information on these dynasties comes from the Hwandan Gogi, which is a disputed reference, as it was most likely created in the 20th century. However, the archeological evidence in the Liao (Yo) River valley and around the Bohai (Balhae) Sea, including Shandong (Sandong), Liaodong (Yodong), and the Korean peninsula, suggest that several similar advanced societies in close contact and proximity to each other existed around 6000-3000 BC, although it is not known whether they had rulers who consolidated control.

Go (Dangun) Joseon (2333?-108 BC): The first accepted and longest ruling Korean dynasty, in which Go means 'old' to disambiguate it from Yi Joseon. According to mythology, the country was founded by Dangun, who was claimed to be an offspring between a son of a divine being and a bear who turned into a human. This suggests that three groups of people, worshipping heaven, the bear, and tiger separately, came together to form a society. Archeological evidence dating to about 2000 BC have turned up corresponding artifacts, such as mandolin shaped daggers and comb pattern pottery, from Liaodong to the Korean peninsula, while both Chinese and Korean historical sources indicate Gojoseon to be the only advanced society in Northeastern Asia at the time, suggesting that the archeological and written sources are related, but the rulers are disputed. Gija, who founded his own country in the area (Gija Joseon) is said to have fled from the Shang dynasty in 1122? BC as it fell to the Zhou, but this is disputed by most Korean historians, as the collective written evidence contradict each other. However, Wiman later fled from the Yan and created his own nation as well (Wiman Joseon) in 194 BC, although it is unknown whether this state coexisted with the original one. The one founded by the refugee would eventually fall to the Han in 108 BC, which would establish four commanderies in the area. Meanwhile, the Jin, which existed around the third and second centuries BC, was located south of Gojoseon, and sent diplomats to the Han, suggesting that the society was highly centralized. It most likely developed into the Samhan (Three Hans), namely the Mahan, Byeonhan, and Jinhan, around Gojoseon's fall, which later became Baekje, Gaya, and Silla, respectively.

Buyeo (250? BC-AD 494): The second Korean nation according to various sources. After its foundation by King Dongmyeong (Bright Eastern King) in the third century BC, who fled from the Tangni kingdom north of the Songhua river to a southern tributary, the nation gained power through conquests of its neighbors, including nomadic tribes that Goguryeo would later dominate, along with crippling Gojoseon, suggesting that it was a link between Gojoseon and Goguryeo. Chinese records state that the state never lost any wars before Goguryeo came to power, and that the Han paid a form of tribute by sending jade covering when the ruler died, suggesting that even the Chinese regarded the country as at least a powerful regional kingdom. After the Han fell apart, a Liaodong warlord, Gongsun Du, allied with Buyeo in order to counter the influence of other kingdoms, although after his family was destroyed by Cao Wei, Buyeo welcomed the invaders through diplomacy. However, it was later attacked by the Former Yan in 285, and was constantly invaded by Goguryeo after 350, causing a steady decline before it was completely incorporated into Goguryeo in 494. Its rulers divined the future by methods similar to oracle bones, although no characters were written on them.

Goguryeo (200?/37 BC-AD 668): Although the Samguk Sagi claims that this nation was founded in 37 BC, this is uncertain as Chinese sources record a region with the same name in 113 BC, while Taizong of Tang stated that Goguryeo had lasted for 900 years, and it is unlikely that Silla was first established among the Korean Three Kingdoms (50? BC-AD 668). Although it is established that King Chumo, who originated from Buyeo, founded the state, it is likely that his other given name, King Dongmyeongsung (Bright Holy King of the East), was later taken from the mythology of Buyeo in order to integrate the state and also claim succession from it. Although it almost came to an end in 244 after their capital was sacked by Wei, and later suffered greatly as a result of Baekje's constant attacks and geographical encirclement through land claims in China, the southern Korean peninsula, and Japan, it eventually regained power through constant raids of neighboring tribes and kingdoms and expansion to become the dominant state in Northeastern Asia. The state initially practiced shamanism, but later converted to Buddhism in 327, which would become the state religion for succeeding dynasties until 1392, while it developed a style of art that influenced surrounding states, such as the other Korean kingdoms and Japanese ones as well. It also built the largest complex of pyramids in the world, although their size was not comparable to Egyptian ones. King Gwanggaeto the Great (only one of two 'greats' in Korean history), who was the first Korean to claim an era name (Yeongnak) originally reserved for Chinese emperors, greatly expanded the state by leading several campaigns against his enemies and greatly decreased Baekje's influence, which had caused his grandfather's death. He also claimed to be a taewang, which was the Korean equivalent of an emperor at the time. Goguryeo was also the only dynasty to theoretically unify Korea under King Jangsu, the son of King Gwanggaeto, as it stretched from modern-day Inner Mongolia and Northern Yan after vanquishing Later Yan, to nomadic tribes in central and northern Manchuria, to the southern Korean peninsula, with Baekje, Silla, and Gaya as vassal states. The son also ordered construction on the Gwanggaeto Stele, which described Goguryeo's origins and his father's campaigns, and the stone is the largest of its kind in the world. The state was also one of the main reasons for the Sui's downfall, which launched four costly campaigns that were blocked by the general Eulji Mundeok, although it later fell to the Silla-Tang alliance after three campaigns from 645-668 and more than 700 years of rule. Goryeo later took its name from one of the various names of this state in order to claim itself as the successor.

Baekje to Balhae:

Baekje (150?/18 BC-AD 660): The Samguk Sagi claims that this was the last state to be established among the Three Kingdoms, but is also disputed and is likely to have been founded soon after Goguryeo was, as the founder, King Onjo, was a son of King Chumo. It became one of the first maritime empires under King Geonchogo, stretching across much of coastal China, along with Liaoxi and areas around modern-day Beijing, southern Japan, and possibly Southeast Asia. These are according to etymological evidence drawn from city names along with Chinese historical texts, which stated that it was organized into 22 Damno and named some of them along with their rulers, while recording numerous conflicts in the region. It clashed with Goguryeo for more than 200 years over control of the Korean peninsula until it was eventually pushed back into the southern Korean peninsula by King Gwanggaeto and Jangsu, losing its capital, Wiryeseong (Seoul), in the process, establishing another as Sabiseong (Sabi Castle) in modern Jeolla-do and retained it until its downfall. Although it later attempted to regain influence in the region by allying with Silla to attack Goguryeo, it was soon betrayed, and would remain a shadow of its former self until it was vanquished by the Silla-Tang alliance in 660. The state then attempted to reclaim its territory in 663 by invading the peninsula along with the Wa, but failed, and the Baekje nobles fled to Goguryeo or Japan, ending the nation's status as a major naval power. Although there is no concrete evidence, it is suggested that Japan became a nation through Baekje's colonization efforts for 300-400 years, and after the mother nation's fall, the region that was once called Wa by the Chinese became known as Nippon, or the Land of the Rising Sun.

Silla (57 BC-AD 935): The first of the Three Kingdoms to be established according to the Samguk Sagi, although this is disputed, as it was written during the Goryeo dynasty, and Silla had vanquished the other two, most likely causing loss of numerous historical records. It was the only Korean dynasty to have female rulers, and the first, Queen Seonduk, was an able ruler who helped provide the basis for the unification of the Three Kingdoms. The kingdom was founded by Park Hyeokgeosae, who hatched from an egg according to mythology. The dynasty established the hwarang, which was an institution equivalent of the Korean boy scouts, and was used to train troops. Later, it also established the oldest astronomical observatory in East Asia. However, it suffered constant attacks by Baekje, who later used its colonies in Japan to achieve further gains until Gwanggaeto sent troops to aid Silla, although this would bring the latter under his control. When Goguryeo faced strife within the royal family by rival factions, Silla took advantage by gaining control over eastern Korea by allying with Baekje to attack their enemy, then seized Baekje's territory, greatly reducing its influence. This move also allowed them to gain access to the Tang through sea routes, and their alliance with the empire caused the demise of Baekje in 660 and Goguryeo in 668 under King Munmu's leadership. However, they later had to drive the Tang off the Korean peninsula in order to maintain their independence, and were prevented from recovering Goguryeo's lands because of Balhae. In the early ninth century, Jang Bogo attempted to stand up against Tang domination by maintaining control over the seas south and west of Silla. After more than 900 years of rule, however, the dynasty came to an end when the king surrendered to Wang Geon during the latter Three Kingdoms era.

Gaya (42-532): The 'ignored' kingdom of the Three Kingdoms era, and also the weakest as it was heavily influenced by its three neighbors, and constantly sought foreign aid to prevent invasion. It was founded by King Suro, one of six princes who descended from the sky in a box according to mythology. His wife came from Ayuta in Korean sources, which is suggested to be the state of Ayodhaya in India. The country was comprised of several city states, and because it was located near the sea, it most likely had trading relations with Baekje, Silla, and natives in Japan, although it is disputed what the exact connection with the latter was. While Japan claims that the state was possibly dominated by the Japanese natives, archeological sources suggest that Gaya was more technologically advanced, so the opposite would be more plausible. It came to an end when Silla began expanding its territory to compete with Baekje and weaken Goguryeo, but adapted numerous cultural elements, such as the gayageum, a Korean zither.

Balhae (Jin) (698/712-926): Excluding the controversially linked Kim/Cheong dynasties, it was the last Korean dynasty to rule modern-day Manchuria. Because there are few written sources and China has blocked entry into the archeological sites, comparatively little is known about this nation. It was founded by Dae Jo-young, whose ethnicity is disputed as China claims that he was of Mohe (nomadic tribe) descent, while Koreans claim that he was of Goguryeo descent. He managed to unify the various tribes around the area by building up resistance to the Tang, establishing the Jin in 618, and renamed it Balhae in 712 after the Tang acknowledged it under that name, beginning the North-South Kingdoms era (698-918/26). It quickly recovered most of Goguryeo's lost territory north of the Daedong river within 100 years, although written sources suggest that it only temporarily held the Liaodong peninsula. The second ruler, King Mu, invaded a Tang outpost in Shandong, and at least one of its capitals was based on Goguryeo ones, suggesting that it was a powerful kingdom/empire of its own, instead of merely a Tang tributary. It also sent diplomats to Japan, which referred to the country as Goryeo. After suffering a volcanic eruption on Baekdu mountain, causing food supply problems, along with internal issues, the state fell to the Liao, established by the Khitan. Although it was temporarily reestablished as the Dongdan Kingdom (926-36) by the invaders, it quickly came to an end as a result of several unsuccessful revival movements. However, long after its downfall, the Jin utilized several Balhae noblemen in the government, along with several Balhae consorts, while the Mongols grouped Balhae as a separate ethnic group apart from other ones.

Goryeo to Joseon:

Goryeo (918/35-1392): The first kingdom to nominally unify Korea, although losing Manchuria in the process. It also provided the etymology for the word 'Korea,' as Europeans and Muslims visited the area during its rule. It was notable for creating the Tripitaka Koreana, a collection of Buddhist sutras, the first metal movable type printing press, and its unique blue-green celadon, which utilized both Chinese and Korean techniques. Gung Ye initially founded Hugoguryeo (Hu meaning later) in 901, later renaming it Majin and Taebong, sparking the second Three Kingdoms Era along with Hubaekje, which was established by Gyeon Hwon, and Silla. After attempting to use religion to strengthen his power, Gung Ye was overthrown by his generals led by Wang Geon (King Taejo), who established Goryeo in 918. He also unified Korea for the first time as Balhae fell to the Liao in 926, Silla surrendered in 935, and Hubaekje fell the following year after Gwon Hwon led Goryeo troops against his former kingdom due to a succession struggle among his sons. Although current sources refer to the rulers as kings, the titles among the royal members suggest that it considered itself to be an empire. After unification, King Taejo incorporated the defeated kingdoms into the state, including Balhae refugees, led by Dae Gwangheon, the last crown prince, who fled after their country fell. However, the nation took an aggressive stance against the nomadic tribes, sparking three wars with the Khitan from 998-1019 and several conflicts with the Jurchen from 1010-1383, temporarily taking land in Manchuria. Eventually, after setting up an empire, the Mongols invaded the country six times from 1231-1270, causing numerous deaths for Goryeo and the death of the Mongol general Sartai, only one of two during a campaign. After the Korean nation agreed to become a tributary of the Mongol Empire, the latter demoted the tributary rulers' ranks to kings, and both sides exchanged princesses for marriage into the royal families, while allowing cultural elements to flow between the two nations. The nomadic dominance lasted until King Gongmin pushed back Mongol soldiers, regaining its independence, although he became an ineffective ruler soon after, as the Red Turbans invaded from 1359-60. The dynasty fell due to a struggle between pro-Yuan and pro-Ming factions, causing Yi Seonggye, a Korean general, to return without conquering Liaodong/Yodong, triggering a coup and creating a new dynasty.

Kim/Cheong (1115-1234, 1644-1911/2): Called Jin and Qing in Chinese sources, its founders claimed ties to Silla through their ancestor, Kim Hambo, who fled from Silla after the kingdom fell, in their historical texts. Because Jin/Kim is a rare surname in China, while it is the most common one in Korea due to Silla's 900+ year reign, it can be assumed that the Jurchen and Manchu dynasties had ties to Silla through their ancestors. After the Jurchen founded their own dynasty, they reduced their invasions of Goryeo, and during the Seven-Year War, when Japan invaded Korea, they offered assistance, while the Qing was content with leaving Joseon as a vassal state instead of controlling them directly as they did with Mongol and Tibet, suggesting that the people were aware of their close ties to Korea.

Joseon (1392-1897/1910): The last Korean dynasty. It was the first to embrace Confucianism as the state religion and resort to diplomacy instead of direct conflict to resolve most territorial issues. It was founded by Yi Seonggye, a Goryeo general who was ordered to invade Yodong in order to aggressively assert its territory. However, he turned his troops back because he realized that it would put a strain on resources, which would allow the Waegu (Japanese pirates) to attack more fiercely, while the troops were not prepared to stand up against the Ming. As a result, he ousted the king, temporarily setting up two puppet ones in his place to ensure legitimacy, then assassinated them and became the ruler in 1392, later changing the dynasty to Joseon due to occasional revolts and opposition among the nobles. However, the struggle for the throne did not cease, as infighting among the members of the royal family continued until 1455, with the exception of King Sejong the Great. His father, King Taejong, contributed most to the establishment of the dynasty, opposing Jeong Dojeon, a minister, who thought that the state would be stable if the government held more power. However, he kept most of his former rival's reforms, and promoted Confucianism, which would be the dominant ideology until the fall of the dynasty. His son ushered in a brief golden age by promoting the arts through numerous innovations, such as Hangul, a scientific alphabet in which the shapes of consonants represented the ones made by the mouth and throat, an extraordinary invention considering that there was no way to see them directly. Other innovations and inventions include the Kangnido in 1402, a world map, possibly the first rain gauge in 1441, various inventions to measure time and days, and an iron printing press. It also published the Dong-ui Bogam in 1613, a Korean medical text also used in surrounding countries, and the first ballistic vest in the 1860s with numerous layers of cotton. In addition, Sejong also expanded territory to the north, forming the northern boundary of modern-day North Korea. Later, Joseon sent diplomats to Ming and Qing officials, attempting to fix the boundaries, which were marked as the Amrok and Duman rivers, although some Koreans stated/state that the latter was a tributary of the Songhua river. Although there were several factional struggles for several decades afterward, the dynasty managed to hold itself together until the Imjin War, in which Japan demanded passage through Korea in order to attack China, then attacked Korea instead because it refused. This resulted in seven years of warfare through two campaigns, causing loss of huge amounts of farmland along with civilian loss in Korea, while millions of soldiers died in the three countries involved. Japan failed to conquer the peninsula due to the tactics of Yi Sun-shin, an admiral and Korean hero, who used the geography to fool the invaders into attacking recklessly. He most notably fought off 333 ships in the Battle of Myeongnyang with only 13, destroying or disabling half of them, while he lost none and suffered very few casualties. He was also known for developing the turtle ship, the first iron-clad battleship, although attempts to reproduce it have not been successful. Although he never lost a battle, he died during the final one, which sent the Japanese back after unrecoverable losses, but also greatly weakened Joseon militarily. After King Gwanghaegun took power, he attempted to stabilize relations with his neighbors by sending diplomats to Japan, while maintaining close relations with both the Ming and Jurchens, negotiating terms to keep his country independent. However, after he was ousted by an opposing faction, the state suffered two devastating invasions from the Manchus in 1627 and 36-7, causing Korea to become a tributary to a nomadic nation once more. The situation continued until 1894, when Japan forced Korea out of China's influence, while Joseon made a last attempt to retain independence by establishing the Korean Empire under Emperor Gojong. However, Japan had other plans, brutally assassinating the empress, and forcing the emperor out and installing one of his sons in 1905. Five years later, however, the country would be annexed into Japan, an ironic situation as all of Korea was dominated by a foreign power for the first time without invasion after resisting enemies for more than 2500 years. Japan then sought to integrate the country as a colony, distorting, destroying, or taking historical references back to Japan, leading to the loss of numerous records. Korea would not regain independence until 1945, but the nation would be divided since 1947, which still continues today.

As always, questions, comments, or criticisms are always welcome.

I would also like to comment on what I think of the butterfly effect, because I've received numerous criticisms for failing to take it into account previously. In my opinion, although it is possible to create realistic timelines, it is impossible to accurately portray what would have happened due to a POD. For one thing, any major alteration before 1500 leads to drastically different languages, due to the different paths taken. If we want to explain this based on Buddhism, which may or may not be true, a person's premature or belated death, or even the different decisions that they chose to do, will have repercussions after reincarnation because of different karma. This may lead to that that person's rebirth as a different person, or he/she may not be born at all. Although we can try to simulate the changes, it is literally impossible to take all of them into account, so we can only reproduce them to the best of our ability, or ignore most of them.

People have also stated multiple times that changing one person's life will have numerous repercussions, causing a completely different chain of events. In reality, however, unless you can change multiple lives simultaneously, I feel that the divergence will most likely become greater over a period of time, until they begin to stabilize and follow a similar, but not necessarily parallel pattern, as that of OTL. Even if different people are born in ATL, it is highly unlikely that within a few decades of the POD, they will all have different names and do different things, but it is highly possible that one of the two options will happen. Also, periods and people are relatively stable. For example, a speck of dust moved two inches to the right will most likely not cause major disasters, because events changing numerous lives are mostly predictable for the most part, although it may be hard to notice them at first.

I'll try to go into more detail if necessary, but that will be it for now.

democracy101 said:

As always, questions, comments, or criticisms are always welcome.

I would also like to comment on what I think of the butterfly effect, because I've received numerous criticisms for failing to take it into account previously. In my opinion, although it is possible to create realistic timelines, it is impossible to accurately portray what would have happened due to a POD. For one thing, any major alteration before 1500 leads to drastically different languages, due to the different paths taken. If we want to explain this based on Buddhism, which may or may not be true, a person's premature or belated death, or even the different decisions that they chose to do, will have repercussions after reincarnation because of different karma. This may lead to that that person's rebirth as a different person, or he/she may not be born at all. Although we can try to simulate the changes, it is literally impossible to take all of them into account, so we can only reproduce them to the best of our ability, or ignore most of them.

People have also stated multiple times that changing one person's life will have numerous repercussions, causing a completely different chain of events. In reality, however, unless you can change multiple lives simultaneously, I feel that the divergence will most likely become greater over a period of time, until they begin to stabilize and follow a similar, but not necessarily parallel pattern, as that of OTL. Even if different people are born in ATL, it is highly unlikely that within a few decades of the POD, they will all have different names and do different things, but it is highly possible that one of the two options will happen. Also, periods and people are relatively stable. For example, a speck of dust moved two inches to the right will most likely not cause major disasters, because events changing numerous lives are mostly predictable for the most part, although it may be hard to notice them at first.

I'll try to go into more detail if necessary, but that will be it for now.

Click to expand...

It's just that last time you had stuff like Barack Obama appearing, which means the Butterfly Effect was completely absent. If you're going to do that, just do some research and come up with different names.

That was a long time ago. I've come up with a rough plan of the ATL by thinking about more realistic divergences, but I won't be posting it any time soon.

However, thank you for the criticism.

Did you take a look at the dynastic overview though? I need to know what people think about it so that I can fix my divergences if necessary.

EDIT: The summary is quite long, so it might be better to just skim through Three Kingdoms to Liao, Hwanguk/Baedalguk to Baekje, and Balhae to Joseon for the moment. The rest is basically a rehash of textbook-ish history, so you can read through it later when you have more time.