Timeline 191 Might be a Stranger World than What It Seems

There are a couple of threads going on discussing what would have happened in Timeline 191 if we expended it past the novels. However like the novels, most posts focus exclusively on military and political changes; this of course is a very limited picture of what the world in TL 191 would actually look like. Particularly because by seeing by that angle it looks very similar to ours with just a few changes in WWI and WWII Being a film student and art history major this really bugged me while reading the series. Turtledove only mentions any of these topics in the second book of the series: American Front.
The world of TL 191 would actually be a very strange world. These are a few points of social, economic and changes that the novel overlooks. All which would affect the way people think.

I will start with what the TL 191 World is more familiar with:

Economics
Socialism as a viable economic system - The fear of communism that existed throughout most of the Western world in OTL up until the 1980s would not exist. Although Russia and the CSA both experienced communist revolts none of these were successful; furthermore, the US has experimented with socialist polices and has had 4 socialist presidents. Excluding Blackford’s presidency, the economic policies of the socialist party turned out to be for the most part successful. It would be safe to assume that other countries will follow the US examples. And without a commie-phobic McCarthyesquvery possible that the spread of Marxist ideas through out the world would spread much faster, although in a much more moderate sense than in OTL. Because the war of economic ideologies is not present in TL 191, new economic ideas would be accepted more easily resulting in a much more economically progressive world.
However imperialist economies are still present, and will act as a counter ideology against Socialism. Imperialist economic theories (drawing wealth from one’s colonies) had dominated the economic system for hundreds of years and in TL 191 they are still very much present at a point where in OTL they were considered outdated and tyrannical. In TL the Imperial powers have changed; rather than being France and Britain the world has passed unto the hands of the US, Germany and Japan; all who have colonies, and occupied territories to exploit. We can see that in US the Democratic Party’s economic policies are somewhat imperialist; unlike in OTL this is still accepted in TL 191.
Such changes would severely alter the way people think and this would in turn change much of society including art, music, architecture, city design, and habits. Here I will try to describe how some of these would have change.
Most importantly, because the world is still heavily militarized, and a Socialist President is in power at the end of the Second Great War (even though Dewey is inaugurated soon afterwards), consumer culture will decently not be created much less encouraged as an economic solution to the economic state of the world. Even the Democrats would look into their new colonies as ways to improve the standard of living not consumer commodities. It is clear to me that Turtledove knows little of economics he created a new Great Depression out of the blue, but the same cannot be done by consumer culture under a government with Marxist or even Imperialist ideologies. Without consumer culture the world will evolve very differently for one part technological development on private matters will go much slower. Microwavable meals, a TV in every American home, every American driving his own car, or the notion of the American Dream as every American owning his white picket fence will be seriously different. (Later on in architecture I will explain how unlikely it would be for Suburbia to even exist).

Art
Marchel Duchamp (who appears in the Great War trilogy) serves as an excellent point of divergence to see how art evolved. In OTL Duchamp was part of the expressionist movement (more accurately cubism) before WWI, his Woman Descending Staircase, is a perfect example of this. At the end of WWI he moved to Switzerland where the Dadaist, most whom were German, began their movement. Dadaism was an absurdist form of art that focused on how society, particularly German society was going down the drain because of the war.
In TL 191 it is mentioned that Duchamp paints another painting a portrait of Anne Colton after the war. This painting is still in a cubist style. Because most of the Dadaists of OTL were German we can assume this movement never existed. Why? Because Germany was not as in bad shape as it was in our timeline and because non-German Dadaists like Duchamp appear to still paint in expressionistic genres. How does this affect the rest of the world? Dadaism, and most of modernist thought, was a pessimistic view of the world, one that wanted to redraw society from scratch. The fact that these trails of though never occurred can actually explain why instead of looking for new forms on how to organize society as it happened in OTL with communism an fascism, people instead looked back towards older forms of organization, such as monarchy, Russia and France both regressed into absolutism once again. Society in TL 191 is much more nostalgic that society in OTL. This can be seen on how in OTL Nazi Germany was trying to create a 1000-year Reich, while France in TL191 was trying to restore the French Empire.
As a consequence there will also a greater trust in classical art. In OTL neo-classicism was demonized because it was the Nazi’s preferred form of art. In TL191 it is much more likely that France would trying to restore Paris’ stance as the world’s art capital, a title that now probably belongs to New York or Berlin. To do so the French would try to be as avant-garde as possible. After France’s defeat in the Second Great War it is much more likely that modernism will be the demonized art. This changes the world big time: architecture would be completely different (a topic I will dedicate more time further on), which means it will change the way people live, if modernism never occurs a big wave of modernist artist Andy Warhol, Jackson Pollock, Keith Haring, just to name a few will never come into the light. This is unless there is a major revolution of thought happens later in the timeline it is very unlike for modernism to be taken seriously. And as we saw in economics consumer culture is severely hindered in TL 191, without it there is no way Pop-art will come into being.
As a small note the Swastika will still be a symbol commonly used. In OTL it was a popular team logo or a good luck charm (even in Europe) before the Nazi’s claimed it as their symbol. The Freedom Party Banner might take its place but it is highly unlikely as a red X can be used for basically anything and means anything. I don’t see a taboo still existing 60 years down the line if someone uses a red X for an organization’s logo like we would for the swastika today.

Alright this is all I have for right now but don’t worry I still have quite a few chapters to go but let me know what you guys think.
 
Great analysis, I've only read the first book in the series, and I've been wondering the same thing. I haven't read the whole series, but I was wondering how the treatment of Black Americans will effect the development of music; consider Jazz, R&B, Rock and Roll, Hip Hop, etc. I've also pictured, a red scare replaced by one against Japan and to an extant all Asian cultures; and also, since it appears Mexican/Chicanos become the dominate minority in TTL, I wonder what cultural effects this will have (you can see this influence in OTL now, but I wonder how this will develop early on), in addition of the shape of things to come in regards to the former Confederacy and Canada.
 
This is really good! I think I'll have to see if I can work it into my After Timeline TL1 timeline (assuming I ever make it) Although I'm not sure about avante garde Paris, it seems to me that considering how reactionary Actione Francais was they might go for a more eighteenth century look.
 
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Very interesting, although I got the impression that the Socialists in the USA were predominantly of the mild, Social-Democratic stripe, and not that much different from New-Deal Democrats in OTL. I don't think that kind of social democracy necessarily prevents a strong consumer society - in fact, a consumer society arguably existed in much of western Europe and the USA since the 19th century.
 

Faeelin

Banned
Very interesting, although I got the impression that the Socialists in the USA were predominantly of the mild, Social-Democratic stripe, and not that much different from New-Deal Democrats in OTL. I don't think that kind of social democracy necessarily prevents a strong consumer society - in fact, a consumer society arguably existed in much of western Europe and the USA since the 19th century.

In Bizarro Turtledove world, they are actually more conservative than the New Deal Democrats by the 1920s, even though in 1914 they were talking about whether or not they're delaying the Revolution.
 
As I understand it the Socialists in the U.S somehow turned into the British Labour party, circa 1929 (I know little about Britain's experience in the depression, but that seems how Harry was playing it). Then, once re-elected they turned into the Conservative party, circa 1938. The oddest thing is that people in TL-191 kept going on about a mythical pension scheme. You'd think, amidst copying everything else from Germany (though note the rationing schemes seem to vanish after the first series), the U.S would have adopted Bismarckian social welfare. But they don't. In fact it is not entirely clear what the Socialists do in office, except somehow preside over the OTL 1920s (though, not, one assumes, prohibition).

Now in Harry's defence, the socialists in the World War I series are largely from New York and therefore are ostensibly more Marxist then American socialists elsewhere. This pops now and again across the series, but again what the socialists do (one assumes they implemented a labour relations scheme of some kind that made it easy to unionize?) is left untouched. I guess HT lacks the imagination for such things. Of course, assuming they are modelled on the moderate elements of the SPD, this might accord with what the SPD did in office (I assume the SPD was in office somewhere prior to the 1960s).

In any case viable American socialism is interesting for many reasons, but the series never really addressed it, along with many other things (endless Mormon revolts and the position of Canada, were particularly odd).
 
OK, after several interesting-looking threads about the topic, which I had to slip, finally curiosity has overriden the need to pretend I am not a NOOB. What is Timeline 191? :confused:

(given some posts on this thread I gather than it is a Turtledove book? And is Turtledove really as bad as some AH members seem to think?)
 
It's a fan name for the set of How Few Remain, the Great War Series, the American Empire Series, and the concluding "Settling Accounts" series. The POD is that an order which was lost (Order 191), is not lost in the Civil War leading to a Confederate victory at Camp Hill and resulting Anglo-French intervention. iOTL the order was lost, a union soldier found it, and the result was a tie at Antietam (which helped cool off any European interest in intervention). Since there's no catchy overarching name for the myriad of books involved, TL-191 it is.

HT can in fact write things (some of stand alones and short stories are quite good--How Few Remain, for instance, is interesting; I found his duology about the invasion of Hawaii lousy as alternate history, but a nice, sometimes gripping yarn). But his alternate history is less then rigorous (some of this is for marketing reasons), and much of his writing in long series is less then inspiring (including a tendency for thin characters and glaring consistency problems). On the other hand I have read through the series, so that says something.

In TL-191 in particular some of the problem is that the series was, I think, originally only supposed to cover WWI and then later expanded. In contrast I find his Darkness series, which is essentially a fantasy replay of WWII, essentially perfectly workmanlike historical fiction, that actually provides a real sense of the Eastern front.
 
Hey guys, thanks for all the comments.
All right so here is part 2 where I will discuss Music and Film. However before I continue, I want to clear up a few points:
Consumer culture did exist since before WWI in OTL but it was limited to the bourgeoisie. Early Marxists condemned the bourgeoisie because of that. However consumerism as the engine of economic progress was not used until the end of WWII, before that most world powers used the colonies as the main source of their wealth. In OTL the Truman administration encouraged consumerism to rebuild the economy after the war. Because colonialism in TL 191 is still active and strong by the end of the Second Great War it is most likely that it will continue to be the main force in the economy for a few more years.
The other point regards with France avante-garde attitude. Even if the Actione Francaise is very reactionary, they will be reacting against the new New, which in TL 191 is most probably German art prior to the Great War. In OTL this was German Romanticism and I will assume this remains unchanged. France will be trying to restore France status as the art capital, and reacting against the Germans by being more French which in this case would involve being as modernist as possible. Remember that Woodrow Wilson tells Anne Colleton that part of the reason they are fighting is to defend civilization and progress, in reference to Duchamp’s painting. He mentions the US being primitive in these matters because their taste in art consists of German landscapes and operas (German Romanticism).

Alright now to the new stuff

Music
Of all the arts this is the most clear that Music will be completely different. For one thing Jazz is most probably dead by the end of the novels; here is why. Jazz would most definitely be a Confederate genre; this means that it would not spread as fast into US as it did in OTL because the US and the CSA are staunch enemies at the time in which Jazz is born. Though I guess the English and the French will enjoy their share of Jazz. Secondly it is a black genre. I would assume that black culture would have been heavily marginalized during Featherston’s administration and therefore Jazz would also be marginalized. The musical influence would remain and my guess is that white musicians will pick up the rhythm and play their version as it happened in OTL. Nevertheless this would happen to a lesser degree since you would not want to be heard playing black music while the Freedom Party is in power. The Population Reductions (a horrible euphemism in my opinion) will have also gotten rid of most of the talent and thus it will be very unlikely for Jazz to have a revival. Furthermore because the black populations have suffered so much it is highly likely that their future music (and most of their culture) will develop a much more serene tone for a few years. Without Jazz we also don’t have Rock & Roll, which will then affect most of the genres that came out from it. I think it will be safe to assume that The Beatles will never conquer America, or even come into being. Even if they exist they will be playing very different music.
We most also take into consideration that Jazz in this timeline would have had competition for the Confederate audiences against Cuban music: habanera and guajira. Before the Second Great War it will be my guess that the Confederacy would have dominated most of the music industry world wide, or at least have a very strong one. Influences not only form Cuba but also from Mexico will also be present. The Confederacy had two ex-Mexican states, which had their share of music most probably gruppera style since they are form the north and because the Empire of Mexico was a very close ally a few notes might also slip in as well. However Cuba will probably remain the stronger of the two influences since it appears to be that most confederates considered Sonora and Chihuahua backwater. Because confederates considered “greasers” (honestly Harry could have come up with a better derogative) to be loyal, the Freedom Party would have probably encouraged this music over Jazz.
Now after the Second GW the US takes over the Confederacy. Because Jazz is for the most part gone these genres will likely become the dominant influence in American music and will from there easily spread to the world. Mexicans also seems to be a much bigger minority in TL 191 than in OTL at that point, particularly because of the Mexican immigration into the Confederacy during the Mexican Civil War; they probably are a large minority than black since most were killed off. As mentioned in another post there will very likely be a second civil war that will dethrone Jose Francisco II soon after the Second GW. This will only cause more Mexicans to move north, they will bring their music with them possibly some genres form further south like cumbia or rumbas. The US also has control over big portions of the Caribbean and I suspect Caribbean music will easily take hold of American audiences.
It is unclear what exactly happens with Cuba at the end, if it gains it independency form the Confederacy and therefore is never annex or if it is annexed along with the rest of the Confederacy. Whichever the case Castro’s communist regime will never happen and Cuba will continue to have an open market. My guess is that Cuba will have a status similar to Jamaica in OTL; although it is a small country will be a major cultural influence in the world particularly in music and popular culture.
Finally because imperialism is still present (yes back to imperialism) and Germany holds most of West and Central Africa now (even a few chunks in the East), African culture will spread more rapidly into Europe. My guess is that there will be a large number of German settlements in Africa, these Germans will listen to African music and then take it back to Europe. What European music would have looked like during the interwar period is harder to know in OTL it was heavily influenced by Jazz since it was the new thing around and American culture was rising in popularity because of its role in WWI, this of course would not happen in TL 191 what the music of Europe would have looked like without these influences I don’t know but it would probably be more conservative in rhythm and much more harmony based. It will be the music that will mix with the African rhythms later on.
In conclusion very much like in OTL music will blend but the blends will come around in very different ways and result in very different forms.

Ok this came out longer than what I expected. I was planning to do film as well in this post but I’ll have to do that some other time, hopefully tomorrow. Do let me know what you guys think.
 
Fun stuff, jycee! :)

On Art:

Mostly spot on. One quibble is Dada, which OTL developed in Neutral Switzerland (Zürich, centered around Cafe Voltaire) in 1916 as it appeared that the old world was eating itself in horrid trench warfare. So sayeth the all-knowing, ever-accurate Wiki. :D Assuming the TL-191 titanium "butterfly nets" hold, no reason it doesn't in -191 since the Euro front Great War is pretty much OTL as I can gather up to 1917. Maybe no Berlin or Paris or NY Dada TTL, so maybe it stays a small movement.

Question: Futurism. Does it still develop? I forget what happens to Italy in -191 (haven't read in a while). Is there still Fascism? Futurism was a major influence on Dada, though they diverged greatly politically (Dada -> Marxism, Futurism -> Fascism).

Music:

Caribbean and Mexican vibes. No real development of Rock. Perhaps music stays more "Country" and "Folk". People tired of war, prone to Imperialist adventures in Latin America, seeking to blow new postwar bucks on leisure...

Hmmm....

Jimmy Buffett conquers the American music scene!?!?! :eek: :D
 
There is a discussion about dAdA.
I have to participate.

There is likely to be dada in Switzerland, but dada Berlin would be very different if it happens at all.
dada Berlin was, appart from Baader and Hausmann also a political movement, leaning towards communism and opposing the Weimar republic.

Since Communism is very unlikely to be big thing in 191-Germany it might exist as an unpolitical movement.

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Does anyone remember that comment about "the maltesean Elephant", a movie starring a guy with the first name Humphrie?
Well I am pretty shure that Peter Lorre didn't participate in that movie.


And I think there is a comment, that indicates that Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain) has not written a novel by 1882 (How few remain)
So there is no Tom Saywer (OTL 1876). Quite an important book, not only because it was the first novel written on a typewriter.
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And what ever happened to Germany?

My guess is that it made a big step towards a parlamentarian monarchy.

And somehow "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles" became the national anthem (mentioned in the beginning of Return engagement I think), although it realy is anti-feudalistic.
Soldiers marched into the war singing it in OTL, so it likely happened shortly after the war.
The creation of the USPD will not bebutterflied away, but it will stay much smaler, Liebknecht and Luxemburg are likely to play a mayor part in it.
The Social democrats are likely to continue there success in the Reichstag election, but they won't get a mayority in 20s.
Women suffrage is unlike to happen as some as OTL (1919).
 
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Alright so here is Film for you but before that I just want to make one point about Dada

Dada was created in Switzerland, but it was mostly by Germans and a few French like Duchamp. It was actually French masters like Duchamp that gave the movement its seriousness without them Dada would have stayed simply as an art student project. So it is possible for it to exist in TL191 however it will not influence our ways of thinking like it did in OTL.
As for futurism that already existed before WWI so my guess is that it is still present. However it will be one of those modernist genres encouraged by the Actione Francaise so I’m not sure how good it will do in later years.
Ok so moving on

Film
In the novels Turtledove mentions a film entitled The Maltese Elephant, the explanation for this is that The Maltese Falcon novel was written with and elephant as the McGuffin rather than a large statue of a falcon; as he did on OTL Humphrey Bogart still stars in The Maltese Elephant. However in OTL The Maltese Falcon was a Film Noir (a type of style popular in Hollywood during that time). The Maltese Elephant could not be filmed in that style and here is why:
First and most importantly Hollywood is not the capital of filmmaking in this TL. In OTL Hollywood gained its strength during the WWI when the development of cinema in Europe was halted do the war. In TL 191 America is also suffering because of the war and so the development of American cinema is also placed into a halt and Hollywood does not get a head start. Secondly D.W. Griffith son of a Confederate Soldier developed most of the film language that was developed in Hollywood. I can assume that in TL 191 he will not have this honors and if he does it will be for a Confederate studio. Along with Griffith many of Hollywood’s first movie stars were Southern Belle’s so they too are out of the picture. Now film language (film language means the techniques used to tell the story cutting, crosscutting, building suspense etc), is such an obvious thing that I will assume it will still be developed without Griffith’s help albeit differently and probably a little bit later. Griffith also introduced the feature film to the world before him you would go to the cinema and sit through 2 or 3 short movies instead of 1 long one. Once again the feature film will probably still come into being but maybe the short feature format will also survive. In this TL Hollywood will have to compete with European cinema and start at the same level. Its strongest rivals will be German and Italian cinema.
In OTL, once Hollywood had a head start, a lot of talent from Europe moved to America to work. Most importantly a lot of German filmmakers, like Fritz Lang, Robert Wein, F.W. Murnau, came to Hollywood because of the Nazi Regime. During the interwar period German Expressionists developed a type of cinema, which was different from everywhere else. They perfected the use of sound to create ambiance, and relied heavily on lighting; Hollywood was still doing very bright lighting while German’s had mastered the technique of using shadows. However Hitler hated the expressionist’s take on cinema, he saw cinema as a way to make the Deutsch in Deutschland stand out. So Fritz Lang and friends move to Hollywood in order to work as the pleased. In TL 191 without Hitler these filmmakers are likely to stay in Germany and thus Hollywood will have to figure many more things by itself. A third thing against Hollywood’s rise will be that it is not a place as peaceful as it was in OTL. You have the Mexican Civil War on one side and the Japanese bombing on the other; with such troubles L.A. could not become as big of a city further draining the talent in Hollywood. It seems to me that after the Second Great War Hollywood will still have to battle against New York for its status as the American Film Capital. With the talent so spread out across the globe film language will develop at a much slower pace than it did in OTL, altering the way movies look at quite a large scale.
In OTL Italian cinema was the strong hold of European cinema during the interwar period. Unlike Germany it did not experience a talent drain and it achieved a small revival after WWII; even today it is still one of the strongest European cinemas. It seems that in TL 191 Italy does not suffer much during the Second Great War, possibly even to the point that many European filmmakers will seek refuge in Italy to avoid the war and thus concentrating talent there.
It is obvious that such a change in film will change culture immensely. In OTL Hollywood is an exporter of American culture to the rest of the world. When you go to the movies outside the US over half the movies showing are American films in the US they are all American films. In TL 191 this will not be the case. You would go to the movies and see the newest German flick, the latest Italian epic, and a few American films some from Hollywood some from New York. Audiences will be a little bit more sophisticated. Unlike in OTL it seems that most Americans in TL 191 speak a second language (most of them German) having a huge array of films will also greatly affect this. If you are used to seeing Italian and German movies you end up picking up a few phrases. Popular culture will be severely affected in years ahead.
There will also be a large change in the genres that become popular. In OTL early Hollywood loved Westerns; they are after all the base of the American myth. In TL 191 this myth has been replaced by, and I quote Woodrow Wilson in American Front, “a dark and bitter one”. Remembrance is the new American myth. There will be much more films about the Great War and how American and Germany obtained their place in the sun. These Films will triumph imperialism, remembrance, and the American-German way. Westerns will still exist of course; the US kept a large chunk of the west and after the Great War it won a northern frontier, Canada, to settle and expand the myth. But I think it is clear that this frontier genre will be very different than the western. Secondly without film noir and a weaker American Dream as a cultural pivot gangster films in American cinema will not be as popular. These films came from film noir and mostly about the corruption of the American Dream. After the Second Great War when America gains large chunks of the Caribbean it is also my guess that a genre of “Ocean Films” more probably romantic comedies will gain a lot of popularity.
Finally I’ll talk briefly about Japan. It is very simple Anime and Cyberpunk will not develop. In OTL Anime came from the growing popularity of American culture in Japan. After WWII and the American occupation the Japan under reconstruction adopted the American comic and transformed it into something of its own. In TL 191 Japan and America are still fighting over Hawaii, and Japan is never occupied by Americans. Therefore Japan will not be as influence. Secondly Japan is not nuked and thus the Cyberpunk, the Japanese post-apocalyptic genre of chaos is not born. Japanese cinema and pop-cultre will likely be something like OTLs Bollywood (without the musical numbers). By this I mean it will be a cinema that evolved separately with its own conventions and iconography. A cinema that enjoys great popularity in Japan and its neighboring nations, in TL 191 case all its colonies, but it is mostly restricted to those places. Since the Empire of Japan still exists well past the Second Great War, Japanese cinema will probably still consist of samurai films ala Kurosawa.

I think this pretty much sums it up. But I think it is clear how much culture will change as art, music, and film change. Next time ill go a bit into architecture and city planning and if I have time ill touch a bit on scientific and cultural thought.
 
With a mass based socialist/social democratic party in the United States, and the affiliated labor movement, I'm guessing that the focus of civic life for a lot of Americans will be the guild hall or the union local, rather than churches, sort of like OTL Great Britain.
 
With a mass based socialist/social democratic party in the United States, and the affiliated labor movement, I'm guessing that the focus of civic life for a lot of Americans will be the guild hall or the union local, rather than churches, sort of like OTL Great Britain.
Or churches could end up even more the focus of civic life, the Democrats are very conservative and without an athiestic power like the USSR encouraging athiesm it would probably even out. I'm really enjoying these articles!
 
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Moving on onto Architecture and City Design

The truth is that due to the butterfly effect every building that went up past 1963 is going to be completely different and the same goes for the expansion of every city. If some one form OTL was suddenly transported into the same city in TL 191they would be worse off than a tourist and will get lost. Now dear Harry never takes the butterfly effect to its full extent and my guess is that in TL 191 certain key buildings will still be built, but some will look very different.
As I mentioned in the economics section it is highly unlikely that consumerism will be as encouraged as it did in OTL. It will exist of course but not as much and because of the Socialist Party existing class differences will also be stressed rather than set aside as in OTL. In OTL the presence of the USSR caused Americans to hide class differences as much as possible, thus the American middle class was created. This middle class was really a well-dressed working class who was encouraged to own their own houses and their own cars and to work even more. This resulted in the solidification of the American Dream in the 1950s. In TL 191 such attitudes will hinder the fight for Socialism. For Socialism to strive for class equality class difference needs to exist. Even if there is no Socialist president there will still be Socialist in congress passing bills encouraging government housing and other Socialist principles. This will result in one major change to the American Urban landscape; apartment buildings will be more common. This will also result in more compact city design. The Socialist party will also strive for public works that in turn will result in better city services such as transportation.
The labor movement will also result in union halls being the center of civic life (I just noticed Jello Biafara already stated this). These halls will need to be located close to the work center. As a consequence people will also live closer to work than they do in OTL. American cities in TL 191 will look more like the cities in the rest of the world in OTL, compact with higher population density, and with life happening downtown rather than in the sprawling suburbs. Suburbs in TL 191 will be severely reduced. Being closer to downtown, also gives you much easier access to all the boards that exist in this timeline.
Architecturally the buildings will also look very different. As I mentioned in the art section modernism will be demonized as the Actione Francaise rises. In OTL modernism fueled the sprawling of suburbia even further particularly in the early 60s. In TL 191 buildings will be more classical in their design and more practical as well (modernism tends to encourage form over function). Like in OTL I will assume that the Great Depression will hinder the development of art Deco and other futurist architecture but instead of being replaced by modernist architecture it will more likely go back to something more classical in appearance a style encouraged by the practically minded Germans.
After the Second Great War Paris and London were both superbombed or nuked they will of course be rebuilt with German aid though they will look very different. I can assume that they will try to rebuilt Paris as it was (minus the Arc d’ Triumph and other monuments) since Paris no matter in which timeline has always been considered too beautiful to destroy. In OTL neither the Nazi’s nor the modernists were able to get their hands in Paris. With the absence and demonization of modernism as a radical reactionary French nationalist movement the New Paris will have to look like the Old Paris though the buildings might be German in design.

Jamhaw, even if the Democrats are more conservative this does not mean they are religious and will encourage the church. Rather they are more militaristic and veteran and soldier’s clubs (we know about the Soldier’s Circle) will likely be the civil centers of those who do not vote Socialist.

And I will just make a small comment in transportation

As a result of cities being more compact cars will also change. First of all there wont be a car in every American home if consumerism is not encouraged. Cars will likely be more compact for city life, like European cars in OTL.
Also airships might still be around (and I know that all AH fans love airships). In OTL the Hindenburg exploded resulting in the de-romatization of airships. In OTL the Hindenburg was filled with Hydrogen (an explosive gas) because the Nazis had placed and embargo on American goods (who would have provided the with Helium a safer gas). Hitler wanted the crown piece of the Reich to be 100% German, which resulted to be a very bad choice. In TL 191 there will be greater cooperation between American and German scientists and engineers resulting in safer more reliable Helium filled Airships. So if you are an American and you want to take a vacation why don’t you consider taking a sky-cruise over the lovely new American colonies in the Caribbean? Or over the snow covered Rockies of occupied Canada?
 
I really agree with you on the cities, I figured with the devistation from the wars would really change things (US had fighting in their streets, instead of on some distant battleground across the atlantic)

Overall I like to wonder about these cultural developments, I think they're often overlooked by much of AH. Even Harry T. addresses this somewhat by "barrels" becoming the name of Tanks; something I never really thought of before.
 
With a mass based socialist/social democratic party in the United States, and the affiliated labor movement, I'm guessing that the focus of civic life for a lot of Americans will be the guild hall or the union local, rather than churches, sort of like OTL Great Britain.

Other than at Socialist (capital S, not lower case) presidential inaugurations, where some red bunting and flags hang alongside US flags and bunting, and gangs of workers taking part in the grand parade, I've seen nothing that indicates such a radical departure from the OTL New Deal America as implied here and throughout this thread. The Socialist Party is simply the progressive-liberal party of the US two-party system, TL-191's Roosevelt/Truman/Johnson Democrats.
 
Other than at Socialist (capital S, not lower case) presidential inaugurations, where some red bunting and flags hang alongside US flags and bunting, and gangs of workers taking part in the grand parade, I've seen nothing that indicates such a radical departure from the OTL New Deal America as implied here and throughout this thread. The Socialist Party is simply the progressive-liberal party of the US two-party system, TL-191's Roosevelt/Truman/Johnson Democrats.
It was implied that the workforce was much more heavily unionized in TL 191. It pretty clearly showed that class struggle was something that was part of dinner table conversation for most Americans, which is a pretty big cultural departure from OTL.

I'm not denying that programmatically, it's not much different than New Deal Democrats. But neither was Labour in the UK, and they inspired some considerable cultural changes in British life even if class struggle was kept within largely reformist lines. The Socialists don't even have to accomplish anything of note in order to inspire those sorts of cultural changes. These differences are cultural, not structural, but they definitely would occur.
 
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