Sci-Fi Author Goes Nutso, Starts Cult

Strategos' Risk · Oct 16, 2004

Who else could have followed L. Ron Hubbard's insanity?

Phillip K. Dick- He suffered a mental period when he believed a superintelligence name "VALIS" met him. First allohistorian cultist!
George Lucas- And all of the people who filled out Jedi as their religion.
Gene Roddenberry- No brainer.
Lovecraftian writers- Lovecraft was a firm atheist, but what about his successors?
Issac Asimov- Not the actual man, but someone who took the idea of the Foundation as humanity's salvation seriously?

MerryPrankster · Oct 16, 2004

Well, Lovecraft's first successor August Derleth was a Christian; he invented the notion of the Elder Gods b/c he did not believe in the indifference and amorality of the universe.

There are some pagan groups that actually worship the Lovecraftian beasties, but I don't know how serious they are.

Leo Caesius · Oct 16, 2004

The best candidate for a post-Lovecraft cultist is Colin Wilson. He's a Welsh sci-fi author/philolospher/occultist who incorporates tons of Lovecraftian symbolism into his works. If anyone has ever read his books, you know what I'm talking about. He's obviously a really intelligent man with a tremendous imagination that takes himself way too seriously. The introduction that I've linked to assures the reader that Colin Wilson is not the head of a cult, which is the kind of statement that sets off warning bells in my head.

I consider Ayn Rand to be semi-sci-fi, and she certainly spawned a cult of her own - probably more influential than even L. Ron Hubbard's.

Robert Heinlein for the same reasons - I think Heinlein is something like the Ayn Rand of the Sci-Fi world. He inspired millions of chubby kids with coke-bottle glasses to flip back and forth from fascism to libertarianism and every point in between. At least Rand never had the crypto-fascist streak that Heinlein had in his later life.

Robert Anton Wilson seems to have inspired a cult of sorts, but it taps heavily into the counter-cultural movements of the 60s and 70s, so I'm not exactly sure how much to attribute to him in particular.

Straha · Oct 16, 2004

I resent that! My glasses aren't coke bottle ones!

Gladi · Oct 17, 2004

Leo Caesius said:
Robert Heinlein for the same reasons - I think Heinlein is something like the Ayn Rand of the Sci-Fi world. He inspired millions of chubby kids with coke-bottle glasses to flip back and forth from fascism to libertarianism and every point in between. At least Rand never had the crypto-fascist streak that Heinlein had in his later life.

Bright day
And I resent that for Heinlein himself, sure he got old and stuffy, but then everybody does, and his Future History is quite certainly radical's must read. And when we are at that any evidence for his fascist leanings (and give me some warning if you intend to say !Starship Troopers" please)

tom · Oct 17, 2004

The Orion's Arm FH features "Trekism" as a serious religion 105 centuries in the future, whose "popes" feature names like Kirk Picard XII.

Leo Caesius · Oct 17, 2004

Gladi said:
Bright day
And I resent that for Heinlein himself, sure he got old and stuffy, but then everybody does, and his Future History is quite certainly radical's must read. And when we are at that any evidence for his fascist leanings (and give me some warning if you intend to say !Starship Troopers" please)

You ever read Farnham's Freehold, Gladi?

Archangel Michael · Oct 17, 2004

tom said:
The Orion's Arm FH features "Trekism" as a serious religion 105 centuries in the future, whose "popes" feature names like Kirk Picard XII.

That's interesting. Where can I find this book?

NapoleonXIV · Oct 17, 2004

I don't see how anyone could take Asimov's Foundation itself seriously enough to start a religion around unless one also had actually derived some sort of "Laws of Psycho-History" or whatever it was that the institution was supposedly based on. If one ever did, of course, these laws would indeed probably become a religion in short order, since they would predict the behavior of large groups of people with mathematical precision.

Gladi · Oct 17, 2004

Leo Caesius said:
You ever read Farnham's Freehold, Gladi?

Bright day
I don't know right now

. I read most of his books in a certain "pack" available on internet, which said "Complete Works" (I read it only to ascertain if I should buy, of course), so chances are I did, unless the title lied.

Leo Caesius · Oct 17, 2004

Gladi said:
Bright day
I don't know right now . I read most of his books in a certain "pack" available on internet, which said "Complete Works" (I read it only to ascertain if I should buy, of course), so chances are I did, unless the title lied.

Well, if you like Heinlein, don't bother. It's utter crap, compared to his earlier stuff. It's about a future world where the whites have managed to bomb themselves into the stone age and the brown-skinned peoples of the world unite under the banner of Islam and subjugate the planet, enslaving the few remaining whites. The aging hero gets nuked a thousand or so years into this word of the future, where he builds for himself a nice little harem of nubile young white women who bend to his every desire. Now, please note that I'm not necessarily accusing Heinlein himself of being a racist or a fascist, but some of his stuff (particularly racially-charged, sexist masturbatory fantasies like FF) have a way of resonating with the RAHOWA set - particularly the Eric Harris and Dylan Kliebold type. I believe that once an author releases his work to the public, he relinquishes all effective control over its interpretation.

Also note that I'm not calling for Heinlein to be banned or anything like that - because I'm a "liberal" whenever I start criticizing something, half the forum assumes that I'm agitating for it to be put on some kind of secular Index of Prohibited Books. I myself thought that FF was almost so bad that it was good - but I do stand by my earlier comments that stuff like this is like the Holy Grail to the teenaged fascist set. That's the long and the short of what I meant to say.

Gladi · Oct 17, 2004

Oh than not, I have not read that.
But I believe pieces like Gor have their place, if only for masturbatory effect(I cannot believe I said that, I must soon inject some authoritanism into blood stream).

But I really do not have anything with these "types" of "people" you talk about, so I have concede.

And we will nevr know if it was written seriously or as a joke, or whatever. After reading , well over dozen?, things by Heinlein. I would conclude from hearsay, the case would be more like with Picasso- who could paint, unlike many wannabes.

NapoleonXIV · Oct 17, 2004

FF was my introduction to Heinlein, very luckily I had checked out a volume of his early shorts with "By His Bootstraps" in it, or I probably would have never read him again.

Even Heinlein, toward the end of his life, was forced to say that a writer doesn't always agree with his characters.

Strategos' Risk · Oct 18, 2004

Ayn Rand's philosophy was highly atheistic, though she does have a cult of personality that exists to this day.

Robert Anton Wilson mentioned the Principia Discorida in the Illuminatus! Trilogy (of course, I've only read the first 100 pages so far), and that is connected the Church of the Subgenius, both parodies of religion. No big chance of an actual religion growing out of that.

Orion's Arm is a far-future space science fiction, trying to be as scientific as possible. There are interesting religious ideas from it, but I find it hard to believe that old line religions will disappear by so far.

What does anyone else think about Philip K. Dick's hypothetical cult?

Tom_B · Oct 18, 2004

I think Samuel Delaney is another one who with a not so big nudge could've gone off the deep end and established a cult. I like most of his stuff but there is a certain pretentiousness to it.

Brian Aldiss is another with some possibility though the "nudge" would have to be bigger in his case.

Tom

Grey Wolf · Oct 18, 2004

Tom_B said:
I think Samuel Delaney is another one who with a not so big nudge could've gone off the deep end and established a cult. I like most of his stuff but there is a certain pretentiousness to it.

Sheesh, you ever read 'Tides of Lust' (I think that was the name) - Delaney is likely to start a cult similar to those Children of God people if you see what I mean

For modern authors, how about Piers Anthony or Roger Zelazny ? I get the idea that a cult needs a defined world view (worlds view) and both of those are authors who have established their ability at doing that

Grey Wolf

Tom_B · Oct 18, 2004

Grey Wolf said:
Sheesh, you ever read 'Tides of Lust' (I think that was the name) - Delaney is likely to start a cult similar to those Children of God people if you see what I mean

For modern authors, how about Piers Anthony or Roger Zelazny ? I get the idea that a cult needs a defined world view (worlds view) and both of those are authors who have established their ability at doing that

Grey Wolf

I never developed a taste for Piers Anthony but from what i know of him he does not take his own philosophy that seriously. Zelazny is more serious about his ideas but is sort of borderline for this purpose.

Ah but if we expand from Sci Fi to fantasy, I have the perfect candidate.

Robert Jordan (whatever his real name is--I foget).

Tom