Sealion Interview

Unfortunately they seem to breed like b***y bunnies...:(

As it is hitting them over the head with facts is turning into AH's version of whack-a-mole..(whack-a-sealion?)

Everyone loves a successful Sealion as it is the only military way to achieve German victory in WW2 after 3rd September 1939. The alternatives such as a successful Barbarossa can be countered by an eventual Anglo-American nuclear attack if conventional warfare proves too slow and costly. The only real alternatives are political PODs involving changes in the British or American leadership, either in 1940 or due to a loss of patience in 1943-4. German victory in WW2 is attractive because it produces very significant differences in all aspects of subsequent history. For example, the list of banning offences on AH.com will be very different!

The problem is that describing a plausible successful Sealion is challenging. There does not seem to be a POD after May/June 1940 giving any chance of success. Nobody even came up with a plausible POD starting from January 1940 in a recent series of posts https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=162318. Unfortunately, I tried to find a POD starting from September 1939 and in consequence have wasted a significant amount of time. On the principle of “our men shall not have died in vain”, I am now wasting further time to inflict it on you (including some repeated ideas from the earlier thread).

The POD has some weaknesses or at least improbabilities. It starts from Adolf Hitler, who we all know was a stable and rational individual, and assigns to him both some rather unusual beliefs and a slightly unusual manner of thinking. The beliefs basically come down to the idea that the worms who had yielded at Munich would only dare to oppose him now (September 1939) if they had been promised assistance from America and thus that he is confronted, at least in embryo, with the alliance of France, Britain and the USA that had defeated Germany in 1918. Such an alliance has much greater economic strength than Germany and would justify the French slogan “Nous vaincrons parce que nous sommes les plus forts” (we shall win because we are stronger). It is not totally implausible that Hitler might have had odd beliefs about America. Adam Tooze argues that America was central to Hitler's world view: “In Hitler's mind the threat of world war, the Americans and the Jews were inextricably intertwined” - Tooze “The Wages of Destruction”, Page 424. However, even Tooze is only talking about 1940. There is no evidence that he did see America as standing behind Britain and France in 1939 nor that he believed that America might have rushed into the war if France were defeated. However, had he had such a belief, it is likely that he would have decided that simply defeating France would not end WW2. In fact, had he believed that America would quickly declare war, he should have realized that there would be no time to successfully conquer the USSR before the Anglo-American threat pulled his forces back to the west. If, again following Tooze, we assume that Hitler understood America's ability to produce aircraft, ships and equipment of all types, he would had little excuse for believing that Germany could win a long war. Only a few people would have followed such a train of logic all the way to accepting that the only chance of victory was to defeat and occupy first France and then also Britain during 1940 when even defeating France seemed very difficult but this POD assumes that Hitler was one of them. It seems likely that Hitler was seeking a way to defeat France rapidly and that this attracted him into gambling on a thrust through the Ardennes. However, in OTL he believed that Britain would make peace if France fell and thus saw no need to make any plans to invade Britain. My POD has Hitler believing that France will fall quickly to a German attack but also that the war would continue after the fall of France. Thus he starts preparations for an invasion of Britain from September 1939.

The next improbability is that Hitler and/or other German leaders would have set a group of fairly intelligent people to work on plans for this Sealion and would use his authority to support them in clashes with the other power centres of the Reich. I tried to model the group on the planners of Operation Weserübung, the invasion of Norway and Denmark, but obviously planning for Sealion would be a much larger and more complex project. There is no reason that a group of competent people could not have been assembled but it requires luck. A hostile analysis might liken collecting such a group to having the bottom of a flask of water freezing while the top half boiled but it is in fact slightly more probable, especially if the initial competent members recommended/ co-opted others. However, there would clearly be a danger of Luftwaffe – Kriegsmarine conflict especially if Raeder and Goering, both capable of great incompetence, became involved. The OTL story of the German use of magnetic mines could serve as a fine example of how not to wage a war involving LW – KM “co-operation”. I am not sure if Jodl, Marschall and Milch with Hitler's support could have kept Keitel, Raeder and Goering from snatching defeat from the jaws of victory but it is at least untested. In one area LW – KM distrust is helpful for my POD as I feel that KM criticism of LW cipher security would have been a plausible result of asking the two to exchange information freely. It even seems plausible that the LW might have adopted the KM method of sending indicators as it is so obviously better that their own system (the LW system seems in retrospect so utterly stupid that one might almost suspect sabotage).

One obvious question with my POD is whether Germany could have produced additional aircraft and gliders, ideally while training additional pilots, completed surface warships quicker, built landing craft and additional S-boats and R-boats, produced additional mines, converted ships to lay them, designed and produced effective aerial torpedoes and otherwise prepared for a successful Sealion. Much of this goes back to assessments of the German war economy. Immediately after the war, Galbraith argued that Germany had not initially fully mobilized its economy and explained the huge surge in production in 1943-4 as due to belated mobilization. This view has been largely discredited leaving the views of Richard Overy (for example in “War and Economy in the Third Reich”) that the German economy was mobilized but very inefficient and the view of Adam Tooze, “The wages of Destruction”, that the 1943-4 surge was a result of the huge investment in industrial plant over 1938-43. If we accept Tooze's view, the question for this POD is what sort of output was possible if it had been decided that the war would be won or lost by the end of 1940. Cancelling synthetic fuel plants that would not be completed within a year in 1939 rather than as OTL by Speer in 1942, not rebuilding shipyards for U-boat construction, not completing the Volkswagen plant, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen, which produced its first Kubelwagen in 1940 but was not complete until 1941, the huge Flugmotorenwerke Ost factory for the Jumo 222 or the Nibelungen-Werke tank factory and many smaller investments will free large quantities of steel and labour. It is much less clear how much extra output is possible by the middle of 1940 although many plants were not working for 24 hours because of lack of labour. For example, He 111 production doubled in 1942 after more labour was provided. Would extra labour have revealed other limits? Aero-engines seem a possible problem but the USSBS report notes that “The capacity of the industry was more than adequate for the aircraft program during the first years of the war with the result that production rates in individual plants were below an economic level. This excess capacity, however, turned out to be valuable insurance.” Looking at the data in the report http://www.sturmvogel.orbat.com/airrep.html for DB 601 production at the main Genshagen plant does not show a sharp increase until 1942, so I am guessing that production only moved to a 24 hour basis in 1942 and that extra labour would have raised production over 1939-40. Of course, if the main problem is inefficiency, different orders from above may make no difference.
The proposed production of mines and torpedoes might also raise some eyebrows. In September 1939, 1250 550 kg LMA and 1150 960 kg LMB magnetic mines had been ordered but only 143 had been delivered. Approximately 1000 magnetic mines were laid during the first year of the war. Clearly, producing much larger numbers would have required explosives which were in short supply due to need for a huge increase in ammunition production in 1939. However, the situation seems to have eased by Late Spring 1940. In any case, the availability of additional steel would prevent the construction of 12,000 emergency concrete cased bombs which were never actually used and allowed the explosives to be used for mines. Torpedoes were a major problem for my initial efforts. Unfortunately, I have not read “Der Lufttorpedo: Entwicklung und Technik in Deutschland 1915-1945” by Friedrich Lauck except for table 5 http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=2270 which shows German production of around 200 torpedoes per month once production had geared up. Production of the F5 for September 1939 was 36 torpedoes from the same table. The critical question is how much redesign occurred between the near useless F5 and the usable F5b. Could the facilities for F5 production have produced F5b like torpedoes in early 1940 had tests in September to November 1939 found most of the defects? Another question is whether discussions with the Italians and Japanese who both used inertial fuses would have led to a comparison of these with the German whisker contact fuses (there is a description of Italian torpedo fuses from a USN mine disposal handbook at http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/weapons-systems-tech/italian-torpedos-11487.html) and much earlier deployment of reliable contact fuses (were there any examples of British ships being hit by dud Italian torpedoes?). The weakness of the Italians was probably aiming their torpedoes from either aircraft or ships and the SM79 did not carry any aiming devices such as the German ToKG-1B http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/weapons-systems-tech/german-torpedos-11482-2.html. Thus Italy might also have benefited from German ideas. However, the pre-war trained Italians hit more ships by eye than the Germans hit with their predictor. I am assuming that German interest slightly accelerates the establishment of an Italian torpedo bomber force.

Finally, the curse of all timelines are the butterflies. There are some obvious unaddressed problems. For example, several French ships took refuge in British ports, most at Plymouth and Portsmouth, before the Armistice was signed on 22nd June 1940 and remained there undisturbed after it came into effect on the 25th June. They were boarded and taken over by the British at first light on 3rd July. If the Luftwaffe had been attacking Plymouth and Portsmouth over the week before the 3rd July, it seems likely that something would have changed. One possibility would have been that Adm. Darlan might have ordered the ships to sail to neutral or French controlled ports, either because of German pressure or to avoid damage from bombing attacks. Would the British have allowed the ships to sail? If there had already been Anglo-French clashes, then in turn the events of 3rd July would surely have been altered. Even if the ships had remained quietly in port and not suffered damage, they might have manned their anti-aircraft guns at first light on the 3rd and this could make boarding them more exciting. I decided to ignored the problem and assume that Anglo – French relations went exactly as OTL. There is a second issue in that I have assumed the same world wide deployment of the RN as OTL including a strong fleet at Alexandria despite fewer German loses off Norway. The ships at Alexandria were certainly needed and the strength at Scarpa looks adequate, so the deployment is not improbable especially if Churchill was already involved in those details. I have also assumed that the British would interpret the failure of the Germans to deploy a magnetic mine up to June 1940 as evidence that they had not developed a working mine although they had received reports of German magnetic torpedo fuses and the Oslo Letter mentioned magnetic mines. OTL few counter measures were started before an air dropped mine was examined in November. It is worth pointing out that the British magnetic mines operated on the rate of change of the magnetic field while the German mines used its direction. Thus sweeping methods need to be different. I am assuming that neither could sweep enemy mines in July 1940. It is improbable that the British would have produced very many magnetic mines in the absence of German use because they would have feared that the Germans might capture and copy the fuse.

Finally, it could be noted that the Germans are given some luck in this timeline. However, I would argue that they had much more luck in May 1940. An Icelandic saga writer would simply remark that Germany's luck was good up to late 1941 but we should not fall into the opposite extreme of arguing that Germany had used up its luck after June 1940.

Can he do it, folks? To dare ride the Forbidden Mammal to Victory? To brave the flames of Internet Backdraft? To Dream the Impossible Nightmare? To grasp the Unholy Grail? …
 
Interview with General Martin Harlinghausen given in 1972 – Part 1

“General, may I first congratulate you on the very enthusiastic reviews that your book “Sealion” , which is being published this week, has received.”

“Thank you. I had always wanted to tell the story and retirement naturally gave me the time and hopefully the perspective. However, while writing I was surprised to discover much that I had either forgotten or, more likely, never knew at the time.”

“Would you like to explain your own unique qualifications for writing this page of history.”

“The uniqueness of my qualification is a function of my delay in writing. I have been left, with Admiral Heye, as the most senior survivor of the Sealion planning staff.”

“Which means that you saw the whole story from the inside and from the beginning.”

“Almost. I was obviously in a subordinate position. The planning staff were centred around Jodl who had been appointed by Hitler together with Milch and Marschall, representing the Luftwaffe and the Kriegsmarine, and the architect Albert Speer, who dealt with economic issues and planning the construction of anything that we needed to build. These chose the next circle outwards and for the Luftwaffe Hans Geisler was picked as Milch's deputy. In turn I was chosen within the first week. I reported to Geisler and was given the task of developing methods for attacking ships from the air and training specialist anti-shipping units.”

“You were the Luftwaffe's premier expert at attacking ships from your service with the Condor Legion so you must have been well prepared for your task.”

“There was some difference from attacking individual ships, mostly merchant ships, off Spain and trying to stop the whole Royal Navy. The “ Swedish Turnip” method that I had developed seemed a good way of attacking ships such as destroyers but we needed a way of stopping battleships and cruisers. Even my “Swedish Turnip” method needed adaptation. I had attacked at low level using a He 59 biplane to drop a bomb with a long delay so that it fell just short of the ship and skipped towards the target. When attacking ships with more anti-aircraft guns, we needed to approach as fast as possible to shorten the time during which they were shooting at us. Thus I wanted to use the new Ju 88 and Bf 110 as they were the fastest aircraft available that could carry bombs. However, that still left the battleships and cruisers whose armour would stop a skipping bomb. There were three other ways of attacking, level bombing, dive bombing and torpedo bombing and I knew that level bombing seldom hit a moving ship.”

“So what method did you decide to use?”

“At that time, September 1939, we decided to use all available methods to defeat the Royal Navy. I should step back and say that we were planning on the basis that our army would quickly conquer France and that we would then have to invade Britain. Initially Marschall argued that the task was nearly impossible because of the strength of the Royal Navy but he was persuaded that there were a few possibilities that together might give us a chance. Most of the possibilities depended on new technologies: attacking ships from the air was almost untried, our surface ships were being equipped with radar which we hoped would give us a decisive advantage at night and we had developed magnetic mines which we hoped our enemy would have no way of sweeping. In addition, we would use our submarines and, at night, S-boats. In the same spirit, Geisler and I decided that we would explore all the possible methods. The KM was initially rather dismissive of the effects of bombs from dive bombers on battleships but we when we examined our best guess of plans of the British battleships and looked at plans of the old SMS Baden and Bayern, we realized that unmodified WW1 battleships were vulnerable to bombs such as our SD 500 with moderately long delays, for example, 0.1 second. The KM commented that the bombs with those delays would tend to hit strong armour and break up rather than explode but we came up with a solution by adding a fuse that detected distortion of the explosive cavity so that the bombs would always explode high order. We had to admit that the newer battleships such as Rodney and Nelson were probably built with thick armour decks well above the waterline and would be able to survive many hits but even those ships would suffer damage from hits fore and aft. The KM believed that only torpedoes would sink such ships, so we also decided to greatly expand the LW torpedo bomber force. Unfortunately, this proved very difficult.”

“What were the problems?”

“The torpedoes! The v******** torpedoes! When we began to test them at the end of September, we found that almost everything in our torpedoes was defective. We might have given up but I approached the Italian and the Japanese naval attachés and asked for their advice. Both were shocked or possibly amused by how badly our torpedoes performed and both assured me that their torpedoes were much better. I needed permission to give them details of our successful technologies and so I went to Jodl and he approached Hitler. Then they were given just about anything that they wanted in return for the drawings and specifications of their airborne torpedoes and in the case of the Italians after a long delay, a few real torpedoes. Meanwhile, we continued testing and found more and more problems. However, eventually, especially after looking at the Japanese plans, we began to find solutions. For example, the Japanese coated their torpedoes with rubber which broke up after they hit the water but cushioned the shock. They also used a wooden box like attachment to stabilize and slow the torpedo in the air. We tried those idea and also using wood to absorb the shock. Rear Admiral Naruse sent us details of the Japanese plan to use gyroscopic controlled fins to prevent the torpedo rolling after release and we were able to incorporate his ideas. Unfortunately, one of the critical requirements was a more powerful motor but we also had to keep the torpedo in production so that we had examples to test. Thus we were never able to actually match the specification of the Japanese torpedo and had to settle for only 1500 metres range and only 36 knots. Finally, when we thought that we had a working torpedo and used a few torpedoes in live tests, we found that they often did not explode. Fortunately, we could simply copy the Italian fuses which worked very well.”

“I understand how fuses that did not explode would be disastrous but why was it important to prevent roll?”

“Torpedoes go deep into the water when dropped and their fins move to cause them to rise. However, if the torpedo has rolled, that causes them to turn sharply left or right rather than to rise to the correct depth. I should mention that there was another headache due to the initial plunge. We found that the torpedoes survived dropping best if they entered the water at nearly 30°. However, that made them go very deep and we were worried that they would hit the bottom in several regions of the Channel or indeed in the Baltic where we were testing them.”

“So how did these problems affect your preparations?”

“Very severely! While aircrew could learnt to judge a ship's distance and speed, it was hard to train them to drop torpedoes when we did not know the speed of the torpedoes in the water, their range or the optimal heights and speeds for dropping them! It was also hard to decide which aircraft would drop the torpedoes while we did not have good torpedoes to use for tests. We did not even know whether to include torpedo bombers in our plans as we were not sure if we would have usable torpedoes when we needed them. In fact, if we had had to invade only a month earlier, our torpedo bombers could hardly have played an important role because we had so few good torpedoes and our training had been so seriously delayed.”

“Were defective torpedoes the worse problem for the Luftwaffe?”

“I have to be careful not to overstate the importance of my own role. I was involved in planning air attack against British warships and British warships were one of the greatest threats to our invasion. However, the LW was also confronted by the RAF, whose fighters might prevent all our operations during the invasion and whose bombers could sink our own ships and attack the landings, had to land paratroops and gliders during the landing and then support our army. One link between my role and the other tasks was that I wanted my bombers to be escorted. The Bf 110 Zerstörer squadrons had the range for that but I became convinced that they should not fly close escort. I wanted the Bf 109 to be fitted with a good drop tank but that proved difficult to organise.”

“Why was that?”

“Technically, the drop tank needed to be cheap but needed to function without giving air locks and needed to detach cleanly. There was also a problem of personalities in that Milch and Messerschmitt were old enemies. In fact we needed Messerschmitt to work full time on developing the Bf 109 and Bf 110 as those were the only aircraft that could be used during 1940 but he was also developing several other aircraft. I think that Jodl and Speer may have spoken to Hitler about the problem. Certainly, Hitler insisted that work on other aircraft must not hold up development of the two fighters although Messerschmitt was allowed to work on his giant glider and even its powered derivative.”

“So the Bf 109 was used as the escort?”

“It was a little more complicated. The Bf 109 units believed, and told me, that the zerstörers would have difficulties against a good single engined fighter because the Bf 109s could beat them in mock combats. Goering, who had first wanted them, believed that the zerstörers would be able to sweep the enemy from the sky. However, I pointed out that neither he nor his zerstörer leaders wanted them to be tied to slow moving torpedo bombers or stukas. So the zerstörers were to operate freely in the area and some Bf 109s would fly close escort. Of course, I actually wanted the Bf 110s to carry bombs for skip bombing, so I was keen to free them from escort duties.”

“As you have made clear, you played an important role but that was only one part of the overall plan. In “Sealion” you also describe the vast range of preparations which were all intended to come together in a successful invasion. Could you explain how it was possible to produce consistent plans for the invasion for the each of Heer, Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe. After all, this was the first time that something like this had been planned.”

“It depended on the central group making the plans. We were very fortunate that Jodl was good at handling people and managed to defuse most clashes. Initially, the Army played a restricted role in the planning, mostly by laying down supply requirements, and the KM – LW relationship was critical and, fortunately, a good relationship quickly developed between Admiral Marschall and Geisler, who was himself originally a naval officer. It may have helped that our staff suspected that we were regarded as Hitler's folly by OKH and perhaps also by Raeder and Goering. Certainly we had to fight all three services over the production priorities as we needed enough landing crafts, gliders, transport aircraft, mines and airborne torpedoes. Thus the Sealion planners tended to think of themselves as having common interests against the world. Of course, as 1939 changed to 1940 and choices had to be made, the clashes became more serious, especially between the Army and the Navy.”

“That was after von Manstein joined the staff?”

“Yes! We were very lucky that he was available. Actually one story goes that he annoyed von Brauchitsch and Halder by offering so much advice as von Rundstedt's Chief of Staff, that he was posted to us simply to get rid of him. Be that as it may, he immediately made a strong impact and the Army started to prepare for something different from a river crossing, for example by starting to think about the order of landing equipment. However, to understand the main clash, you have to go back to the issue of mines.”

“Of course, mines were the key to Sealion.”

“Yes. That was Heye's insight. Normally mines were important in naval warfare but not decisive because it was always possible to sweep a channel through the field. It was only minefields covered by artillery, as at the Dardanelles, that could deny the sea to the enemy. However, Heye realized that Germany had developed the magnetic mine and that the British did not seem to have a method for sweeping them. It was the possibility of an unsweepable mine barrage that convinced Marschall that Sealion was possible. The problem was that we did not have enough mines and could not lay enough even if we had them. Thus the navy wanted to have two mine barriers with only about 50 kilometres between them, which would mean the Army would have to land on the Kent cliffs and advance on a very narrow front. Manstein wanted to land on a wide front initially so that the enemy would not know where to block the main thrust.”

“Thus it was decided to lay the Western Barrage between Cherbourg and Portland, which allowed landings along most of the South Coast.”

“Yes. Things might have been easier had the Navy won the argument but nobody wanted to put the Army through a First World War type mincer.”

“Let's have a break now for coffee. We can edit it together for transmission.”
 
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Interview with General Martin Harlinghausen given in 1972 – Part 2

“Would you like to say a little more about mines and minelaying.”

“We could attack the British warships with many weapons but it was soon clear that mines and aircraft were the only weapons likely to defeat a force of the size that the British could send to the Channel and only mines would work at night. It was critical that the British did not find out that we had magnetic mines and thus we dared not use them until the week of the invasion. We had to fight off an unholy alliance of some LW leaders such as Joachim Coeler and most of the admirals from Raeder down who all wanted to use the mines immediately. However, Hitler ruled for us and Coeler's men had to use contact mines over the winter as did the destroyer force. At least the destroyer minelaying sorties enabled us to practise air-sea cooperation. We had the Bf 110 “Zerstörers” as escorts to prevent enemy aircraft reporting them. Those missions were difficult because the aircraft had to navigate over water and to fly at very low level to avoid revealing where our ships were via radar.”

“The mine production and minelaying was on a scale never seen before.”

“True. We wanted to ensure that a ship should hit ten mines, which required us to lay about 40,000 mines. Destroyers could each lay 60 mines per trip and S-boats 6 each but we only expected to have around 40 destroyers and torpedo boats and around 100 S-boats. Unfortunately, those ships were also needed for other roles. Thus we depended on converted merchant ships to lay most of our mines and would have needed over a hundred such ships to lay a convincing barrier. In reality, given the actual number that we could lay, we needed our enemy to try to go through the shorter barrier in the Straits of Dover for us to have any real hope of success.”

“And while all these preparations were being made, the war continued with battles at sea.”

“Yes. Our submarines and raiders were operating in the North Sea and the Atlantic while British bombers tried to attack our fleet. We tried to learn from these battles. For example, we had the first clues that our torpedoes had defective fuses although the evidence was ignored at first. In the new year, we talked to Doenitz and showed him our results. After that he supported using copies of the Italian fuses in all torpedoes. However, we began to become involved in planning real operations when plans were made to invade Norway and also The Netherlands.”

“I think that I missed the details of the attack on The Netherlands when reading your book.”

“We only exerted a small negative influence. There was initially a plan to capture the Dutch Royal Family but we objected that it risked losing too many transport planes and was unnecessary because the war would be over within a few months. We were happy with parachute drops and glider attacks but we did not want transports to land near the front line. Thus the paratroop operation was concentrated in the Rotterdam area.”

“And Norway?”

“Yes. In a sense that was our main practise for Sealion. Again we argued against the initial plan, which was difficult because the initial plan was from Raeder and obviously Raeder was Marschall's boss. The problem was that Raeder's plan envisaged taking Norway to give the fleet bases but risked losing the fleet to take Norway. If you adopted a cautious plan, the British would get the chance to utterly wreck the Norwegian ports but that did not matter to us or to Hitler because the war would be over before we would need them. In fact, it was a real threat and only a little iron ore could be shipped from Narvik in the Winter of 1940-1 but losing our fleet would have killed Sealion.”

“What were the lessons from Norway?”

“The Royal Navy and the Luftwaffe were both very worried. We had failed to sink battleships and had only sunk a few cruisers and destroyers. However, the RN was shocked by how many ships were damaged and realized that it would suffer heavy losses if it operated close to German bases for a long period. The KM had only lost two light cruisers, a torpedo boat and some submarines. However, its radar equipment, which we believed was critical if it could defeat the RN by night, had suffered numerous failures. The U-boats had launched many torpedoes with very limited success and now everyone admitted that there was a serious problem.”

“While Norway was absorbing your attention, the battle in France was being decided.”

“I believe that the only point where the requirements of Sealion came into real conflict with OKH's plans came around 20th - 24th May when OKH was cautious but Hitler was urging Guderian to dash for Dunkirk and destroy the BEF. Fortunately, Guderian told 1st Panzer Division to ignore Calais and they reached Dunkirk on the night of 24th-25th May in time to block the British retreat.”

“You comment in your book that the nature of the planning changed again at that moment”

“From that point we could start to make plans to be executed on a specific date. We were happy that there would be almost no moon, because it gave our radar equipped ships an advantage. In addition, we did not have to worry so much about British night bombing of our landings. However, we had to start making difficult choices and some were truly nightmarish.”

“You are referring to the sacrifice of the pioneer battalions?”

“That was probably the worse of the worse. We realized that we could only lay enough mines to effectively block the Straits of Dover and make attacks from the West dangerous. Thus we needed to bring the British Fleet from Scarpa Flow down their East Coast towards the Straits of Dover. Then we calculated that they would attempt the Straits rather than sailing round the North of Scotland. Manstein's plan was quite ruthless. We would use gliders and S-boats, to land small forces of infantry around the Thames Estuary as the first landings on British soil. The gliders would approach the British Coast at very low level and at dusk while landings from the sea would occur after dark. The initial objectives would be British radar stations as putting those out of operation would be a significant gain in itself. The problem, of course, was that there was little chance of withdrawing those men successfully. The plan also used the fact that our landing craft started from the German and Dutch Coasts, suggesting an East Coast landing. In fact, although the French Channel Ports were critical for supplying the landing, those ports were also almost certain to unusable when captured, so we could not move our landing craft there until the actual moment of the invasion.”

“Didn't the LW also help by dropping a mine barrage off the East Anglian Coast by night to mislead the British further?”

“Yes but they were again left dropping contact mines and anti-sweeping devices. The British could watch the minelaying on their radar screens. We hoped that those mines might also slow the British response so that they did not find a nearly empty Thames Estuary too soon.”

“The LW also had to attack the British warships that were already near the invasion zone.”

“Sinking or crippling those ships was an absolute necessity to allow the minelaying as well as the initial landings. We expected to suffer losses from Flak and British fighters and we had scheduled several attacks on each target during a single day in case some attacks were broken up and failed to inflict damage. There was a special requirement in the late missions against Dover, Sheerness and Harwich that we should involve all of the locally available enemy fighters, so that they would have landed as our gliders approached at very low level at sunset. The gliders had escorts also at low level but that obviously limited their ability to defend their charges.”

“The initial landings were planned for 3rd July.”

“The date was still fluid until the Armistice with France on the 22nd June. After that it became firm. Of course, the real landings started around dawn on the 4th July.”

“Leaving the LW, what did the KM warships have to do over those days?”

“Initially our battleships, panzerships and cruisers had to cover both the mine laying to block the Straits of Dover, the landings in the Thames Estuary region and the sailing of the main invasion force along the Dutch and Belgian Coasts. The threat was the British destroyers from East Coast bases and anything that had survived air attack further south. In stopping the British destroyers off the Thames, we hoped to attract the attention of the main British Fleet. Meanwhile, the initial Western mine laying involved mostly destroyers, torpedo boats and S-boats. Those ships then returned to French ports and loaded the torpedoes and depth charges necessary for protecting the landing force. Obviously once the Eastern Barrage was laid, the heavy units had to pass through the gap in the mine barrage near the Belgian coast ready to fight any British ships that escape the mines and the Luftwaffe.”

“As well as the British Fleet at Scarpa and on the East Coast, you also had to protect the landings from attack from the west.”

“The LW had to strike hard at bases such as Plymouth. However, we hoped to lure British units around Gibraltar into the Mediterranean by persuading the Italians to attempt an invasion of Malta. Unfortunately, the Italians demurred, pointing out that that it would be difficult to get ashore, that they had insufficient landing craft and trained paratroops and that four of their six battleships were not ready for combat. Then we begged them to assemble a convoy for Tripoli, give it a large escort and sail it as if it were an invasion force while using their battleships to bombard Malta on the 2nd July. In fact, they did more or less what we asked but the British ignored them because the British had managed to organize a diversion all on their own.”

“How did you react to the news of the British attack on Mers el Kebir?”

“We were hugely relieved. Our morale rose and we had the sense that fate was smiling on us.”

“Let's have another break at that point. We can have a coffee before the battle!”
 
Interview with General Martin Harlinghausen given in 1972 – Part 3

“How uncertain was the outcome of the battle?”

“It was very close indeed. We had assumed implicitly in most of our planning that if our army was established ashore and took control of the land around Southampton Water, then we had won. However, we found that even that was not enough.”

“Why was Southampton Water taken as the target?”

“That region had not been accessible until the fall of France, so we did not expert to find British fortifications or coastal batteries. We also hoped that the British would have laid fewer mines in that area than further east. There were beaches rather than cliffs both to the east and west and the large enclosed anchorage would allow us to protect ships and landing craft from British ships or indeed storms while unloading. Our ships could sail from French harbours to that anchorage during a single day, so we could only be prevented from reinforcing our army if the British stationed ships in the Channel during the day. It was the job of the Luftwaffe, the role of my own command, to sink any such British ships.”

“However, that task proved beyond the Luftwaffe's capability in July 1940.”

“Yes although we started very well indeed. The Luftwaffe attacked any British ships in the Channel and British naval bases from Plymouth to Harwich beginning with the attacks on shipping beginning even before the French armistice but strengthening at the end of June. Initially many of the attacks on the bases were made by Bf 110s at low level and high speed dropping bombs fused for long delays.”

“The “Swedish Turnip” method?”

“Precisely. The low level attacks were generally more effective than bombing from high level and most of the British destroyers based in the invasion area were disabled. On 3rd July, we attacked using almost all our aircraft and accepted the risk of weakening one of our crucial weapons by using the Ju87 units. In fact, we could hardly have attacked any earlier at full strength because we had to move our aircraft, with all their supporting staff and equipment, to the newly captured fields of Normandy and Brittany. ”

“I believe that the attacks were very successful. The attack on Plymouth is famous as the first time that a battleship was sunk by air attack.”

“Yes, although sunk does perhaps overstate it. Revenge was hit by a large number of bombs and left beached in shallow water. The British cruiser Newcastle was more obviously sunk in the same attack.”

“This was a triumph of your delayed action bombs.”

“We had calculated that as few as ten hits using SD 500 bombs from dive bombers might sink an old ship such as Revenge while even fewer might disable her although it was clear that much depended on where the bombs hit.”

“You also had airborne torpedoes.”

“Yes but we only had a limited number and did not want to use them against ships in port because of the problems of shallow water and nets.”

“Skipping ahead, you used all types of air attack two days later on the 5th in the battle of the Straits.”

“The main body of the British Home Fleet had sailed from Scarpa Flow during the afternoon of the 3rd when aircraft had reported that our ships were at sea and had sailed south roughly parallel with the British East Coast at about 20 knots. Their problem was that they only received clear reports that we were landing on the South Coast during the morning of the 4th by which time they were reaching the latitude of the Humber. They naturally decided to press on and enter the Straits from the east. This left them in the disastrous position of being under heavy air attack in the middle of a dense and unsweepable mine field on the morning of the 5th.”

“A controversy has always existed on how the British Fleet was destroyed. Can you give your view?”

“Well we can exclude some claims. There were no U-boats in the area as they were all deployed further west. The KM battleships, cruisers and destroyers did defeat the RN cruisers and destroyers that broke through the mine barrier but they were not involved against the RN heavy units. The coastal artillery claimed to have hit and sunk several ships but they have found few supporters, although hitting stopped ships may have been possible. The S-boats attacked first around the start of nautical twilight as the British entered the field of magnetic mines, which the S-boats could ignore. It is nearly impossible to say if several of their torpedoes hit or whether all the damage suffered at that time was due to mines. After dawn our aircraft attacked and again there is uncertainty whether torpedo hits, near missing bombs or mines inflicted underwater damage. The number of bomb hits is also very uncertain as is the division between those from Stuka units, fighter bomber units and from larger bombers.”

“Why didn't the RAF fighters intervene effectively?”

“Basically because the radars that might have directed them had fallen victim to our initial glider assaults, because direction from RN ships had not been practised, because our Bf-109 units were more effective as they were directed by radars from the Pas de Calais and lastly because the RAF simply did not send enough fighters. The RAF fighters suffered because the Bf 109 pilots were also more experienced and flew in looser formations.”

“What prevented the RAF from sending more fighters?”

“The RAF was expecting a relatively long campaign lasting months and had not moved everything forward to fight over the Channel. Aircraft based north of London were hardly involved that day. The RAF squadrons were also trying to escort RAF bombers and to protect their own bases and surviving radar stations, some of which actually were attacked by Bf 110 fighter bombers.”

“So the landings went according to plan?”

“Essentially. Several ships were lost to British mines and there was one absolute panic when it was realised that some of the ships reported sunk at Portsmouth were not only afloat but able to sail and threaten the landings on the Sussex Coast. One destroyer had to be beached and another was crippled by the cruiser Manchester but fortunately a torpedo from either a destroyer or an S-boat hit the cruiser and brought it to a stop. In fact I can defend the Luftwaffe in that case because interrogation of the crew revealed that Manchester had sailed on only half power after bomb damage.”

“So when did things start to go wrong?”

“On the morning of the 7th July. The KM and the landing forces had suffered loses and damage up to that point, the Lutzow had been crippled by a British submarine and Hipper had been damaged by British cruisers and destroyers, but the loses were lower than expected and our mine barrage had worked. However, on the 7th Force H, the British Fleet from Gibraltar, arrived in the Channel and both our air attacks and the Cherbourg – Portland mine barrage failed to inflict serious damage. A U-boat managed to torpedo the old battleship Resolution but that left Scharnhorst, Gneisenau and Admiral Scheer to fight Hood and Valiant. They lost and only Gneisenau escaped to Le Havre with its armament mostly out of action. Fortunately the action had been prolonged and both British ships had been hit several times. Stukas attacked both during and after the surface action and both Hood and Valiant were hit. The consequence was that most of our transports could take refuge in French Ports. In addition, we succeeded in attacking Resolution next day in Plymouth and damaging it further. Thus the British withdrew their heavy units to Liverpool for temporary repairs. However, the balance had tipped. From that point on until the end of August we could still send some supplies with the few destroyers and torpedo boats left but we only occasionally managed to send our landing craft across the Channel and only about half tended to arrive.”

“Why did air attack fail on the 7th?”

“Perhaps the success on the 5th had required special factors. It is possible that many of the ships hit on that day by bombs and torpedoes had already suffered damage from mines. Our units were also showing the effects of quite heavy loses and simple tiredness and, given the limited training, perhaps again the surprise should have been the success on the 5th.”

“Looking at the naval battles over the next two month, one is often struck by how comparatively weak were the forces on both sides.”

“Very true! The KM started much weaker and had suffered heavy loses and damage while the British had a huge fleet but, critically, tried to avoid exposing more ships than necessary to the dangers of mines, submarines and air attack. This allowed us to send significant reinforcements and supplies at the end of July when Blucher defeated Berwick and in early August when a partially repaired Gneisenau chased the British cruisers away despite having only two working main turrets.”

“That last almost led to another major battle didn't it?”

“Yes but it actually led to more mutual attrition by minefields. Gneisenau hit one of the magnetic mines that the British had now begun to lay, had to be towed into harbour and could play no further role in the campaign. The British Valiant hit a German mine and again required lengthy repairs.”

“Would you criticize the British for their caution?”

“Probably not. In retrospect they were faced with a nearly impossible situation after our initial landing and after the pictures of the sinking battleships from the 5th July had been published around the world.”

“You mean because of the Italian Fleet?”

“That was one aspect. The German negotiations with Spain had started before the fall of France and were partly inspired by our invasion plans. Franco had hesitated to join us, Hitler offered him every concession that he requested and still he hesitated because he feared a British blockade. However, Spain agreed on the 7th July and, ironically, our troops were in Spain and moving towards Gibraltar as the British regained control of their Channel. Thus the British knew that the Italian Fleet would eventually have access to the Atlantic. They also knew that Bismarck and Tirpitz were almost ready for service and must have suspected that Japan was about to move south. They also presumably now believed that the French Fleet would soon come under our control. Meanwhile all over the world the British were confronted by local enemies who were now ready to strike. Iraq demanded the surrender of the British base at Habbaniah, Iran sent troops to guard its oil facilities and planned to nationalize them, the Indian Congress demanded immediate independence and Argentina started preparing to take the Falkland Islands.”

“So you feel that the British Army had to defeat the invasion while the RN and the RAF reduced supplies to a trickle but never cut them off completely?”

“From what I have read since, that is what both Churchill and his generals seemed to have believed. However, the British troops were less well trained than our elite units and much less experienced. The British greatly lacked confidence after the disasters of Norway and France and, while they defended positions bravely, found organising attacks difficult. By late August, Churchill was losing confidence and pressing for the use of mustard gas as the best chance of victory.”

“How was the deadlock broken so suddenly at beginning of September?”

“The battle that everyone remembers pitted the brand new Bismarck with the cruisers Prinz Eugen and Seydlitz against Hood and Warspite and several British cruisers. Of course, our submarines had just gained their greatest victory of the campaign by sinking Malaya. The actual battle was not part of any brilliant plan on our part. The British ships were identified as cruisers until they opened fire and we were probably very lucky although the Hood had apparently hardly any so called “immune zone” against Bismarck and, once Hood blew up, the odds were against the old Warspite. However, that battle may not have mattered because the Italian Fleet was in the Atlantic only a week later and the effectiveness of the British RAF collapsed at almost the same time, although their efforts against our shipping that week may have been the last straw.”

“Why did the RAF collapse?”

“Lack of fighter aircraft was the main reason. The main Supermarine factory had been captured by our paratroops in July and KG 100 had attacked the newer factory at Castle Bromwich as well as the two factories producing Hurricanes by night using beam navigation systems. The RAF fighters suffered heavy losses in escorting bombers in attacks on our shipping and the breakdown in the radar warning system allowed their bases to be frequently taken by surprise. Meanwhile, we had established our radars on the Isle of Wight which contributed the heavy RAF losses.”

“By contrast, I gather that the Luftwaffe's main problem was lack of pilots.”

“Yes that is true. At the beginning of July, the return of the prisoners from France compensated for our losses but later we were forced to commit less well trained pilots into the battle and those pilots suffered more accidents and were more likely to be lost in combat. Towards the end, we were lucky that the Italians were keen to send their air force to France.”

“There are reports that you personally were involved in planning for Italian assistance from as early as 1939?”

“Not exactly or rather not the deployment to France. I was involved in attempting to buy air launched torpedoes from Italy and in trying to learn how to drop them. What we found was that the Italians were in more or less the same position as us with few torpedoes actually available but they were developing good torpedoes. I suspect that our interest caused the Italians to manufacture torpedoes and establish their torpedo bombing unit under Colonel Moioli a little more urgently than they would otherwise have done. Certainly we had several visitors from Italy when training and discussed torpedo aiming devices. However, the decision to deploy most of the Regia Aeronautica to France was only taken in June. The bomber squadrons were obvious useful but there was an obvious problem with both fighters, as they had few monoplanes and those had very short ranges, and close support aircraft as their Breda Ba 65 was obsolete and the Ba 88 had failed. Fortunately, our production of Ju 87 and Bf 109s was producing more aircraft than we had available pilots. Also, we were helped by the wave of anti-British feeling in France during July and allowed them to to resume production of the Dewoitine D.520 under the condition that they immediately passed 120 to Italy with all the necessary spares and ammunition. Thus the Italians were deploying around 200 modern fighters as well as the Fiat biplanes by September and that certainly contributed to the British collapse, although the Italians suffered many crashes as they adjusted to monoplanes.”

“So Churchill proposed the use of mustard gas but was overruled in Cabinet and forced to resign, which led to an armistice.”

“Yes, people have speculated on whether the British could have continued fighting but it was clearly hopeless. Most British politicians did not want gas dropped on their cities. A very few politicians suggested continuing the war from the Empire but that was hopeless because the Empire was under threat and the British people would have starved if Trans-Atlantic trade had not resumed. For that matter, the American and Canadian farmers would have been in difficulties, as of course would have been American industries with no British orders, and there was an election campaign in America at the time.”

“Thank you General and happy birthday!”
 
As I only received the text of the above interview from an ATL universe, with a note that it had been translated by computer from the original German (which accounts for its execrable style), I am unable to do more than speculate on its implications. Clearly, some British Nationalists will dismiss it as a crude hoax and maintain that British politics were fundamentally different from French. This seems to me unpersuasive because it was only from September that most British realized that this was their finest hour.

However, what of the future of such a universe? It seems unlikely after the events recounted that there will be a war between America and Japan, because an agreement uniting Britain, The Netherlands and the USA to embargo goods to Japan seems unlikely. It also seems almost certain that Germany will attack the USSR during 1941. The outcome of such a war is unclear. One could predict a German victory leaving Hitler able to attempt to carry out the programme of his Second Book, which would certainly lead to a very dangerous future indeed. It is interesting to notice that while American opinion was split in June 1940, by November 1940 in this line, everyone would be in agreement on an America First position.

My own feeling is that the internal evidence of a rather sane interview to be broadcast in 1972, suggests a different outcome. Might Hitler have been assassinated in 1940-1? One possibility might occur if he foolishly visited London in 1940 but it is also possible that Soviet agents might try after a war started. OTL Stalin probably reject assassination as it might have given the Anglo-Americans an excuse to make peace, but in this line he might feel that it could boost Soviet morale.
 
Alot depends on what the treaty looks like and what happens to colonies and puppet states of the British Empire. Italy will probably take large chunks in Africa, but India is going to be independent. Canada, New Zealand, and Australia are going to become US satellites. India might also orient itself towards the United States to counter Japanese or Soviet influence. South-East Europe remains nominally independent, and they probably won't resist German influence too strongly, and if they do they'll be swept aside quickly.

Japan and the United States will get into a war eventually, as will the Soviet Union and Germany, but how everything would play out is subject to butterflies.
 
.....

Mostlyharmless, the subject has been done to death already.

....

I have noticed that there is no successful Sealion thread in the Timelines and Scenarios Forum so I am thinking of (threatening to) post this one unless you all pull it apart quickly (as Max S is probably hoping) or alternatively (as I hoped) suggest how the world might develop after the events reported.

To help you pull it apart, I could mention that the concrete bombs and the numbers for magnetic mines are from E. R. Hooton, Phoenix Triumphant: The Rise and Rise of the Luftwaffe, 1994, Arms & Armour, ISBN 1854091816. The British counter measures against magnetic mines are discussed in The Challenge of War: Scientific and Engineering Contributions to World War II Guy Hartcup 1970 ISBN 0-7153-4789-6. A good source for the sort of damage likely to result if unmodified WW1 battleships were hit by bombs such as the SD 500 is the USN report on bomb damage to Haruna, Ise and Hyuga http://www.fischer-tropsch.org/prim...ports/USNTMJ-200H-0660-0744 Report S-06-1.pdf . There are also reports on damage to Warspite and Barham in the Mediterranean. My feeling was that an SD 500 exploding just inside the main belt on the scarp connecting the armour deck to the bottom of the belt might have blown the belt outwards and caused severe flooding (as bomb hit no. 11 on Haruna or hit no. 1 on Ise). The blisters on British battleships were smaller than on the Japanese but bombs exploding within a blister were clearly also a serious threat. The description of the “Swedish Turnip Method” comes from Cajus Bekker, the Luftwaffe War Diaries, page 325-6. The 8 seconds fuse delay mentioned does in theory allow a slightly different mode in which a near miss sinks rather than skipping to explode under the ship, so I am not quite sure if it is skip bombing.

While trying to guess the actions of Admiral Darlan and the French Fleet, I looked at “England's last war against France : fighting Vichy 1940-1942” by Colin Smith, which skips from 22nd June to 3rd July on the turn of a page but does describe events in Iraq in 1941 which I have occurring in July 1940. I also looked at “ Vichy France : Old Guard and new order, 1940-1944” by Robert O. Paxton and “The fall of France : the Nazi invasion of 1940” by Julian Jackson without finding much about the fleet (I probably should have summoned my courage and tried Henri Michel, Darlan, Paris: Hachett, 1993 in French). Jackson is a good read. He seems to suggest that Britain would have made an armistice like France in 1940 given the same situation i.e. that French political stresses defined the development of Vichy but not the decision for an armistice.

The problem with Tooze's chapter 12 is that much of it references “Hitlers Strategie: Politik und Kriegsführung, 1940–1941” by Andreas Hillgruber, which sadly and unsurprisingly I have not read. However, I seem to have adopted in the final section Hillgruber's view (contra Evans) that Hitler was the driving force for the main NAZI excesses. I must also confess that I don't actually believe Tooze's view that Germany's economy was run as well as could be expected. There were just too many investments that never matched the plans i.e. FMO, which never produced anything like the planned 1000 engines per month (actually while checking I realised that the first concrete for FMO was poured in January 1941 so it was a bit misleading of me to have mentioned it in the first post), or the Auschwitz synthetic rubber plant, which only produced rubber after 1945. I think Speer's 1942 decision to stop building new plants was his most successful single action. There is a 1981 article “The Role of Synthetic Fuel In World War II Germany” by Peter W. Becker http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/a...aug/becker.htm which includes “Göring called for the production in 1942-43 of almost 88 million barrels of various types of fuels and lubricants. But it was not long before it was realized that a program of such dimensions would require construction steel quantities that simply were not available in an already straitened economy” to illustrate that building synthetic fuel plans could require significant resources. The problem with believing that this was a rational choice is that Hitler also planned to take the Caucasus before the plants would be completed.
 
I always love Sealion stories. :D

It's great stuff here - and don't worry about Darlan, the only thing he really can't turn into is Free French. He was all the rest at some point : pro-British, anti-British, pro-American, pro-German, strictly neutral Vichyist... So unless you have the Amiral de France rush to pledge allegiance to de Gaulle, you cannot be ASB.
 
There are a number of things I have problems with.

First

Its the ramping up of production. The problems with raising production from peacetime to wrtime quantities was by no means unique to germany. Every war economy (including the USA) had these very same, and often severe issues. It seems to have stemmed from the relatively low production rates prewar , which allowed for craftsmen and engineers to tweak and tune to get everything working, which wasnt possible when war started (indeed, these issues affcted prewar buildups as well).

This issue seems endemic to the production methods of the time (pre computer, and very poor methods of prediction), and so I do have serious issues that germany will manage to miss these for all the important things they need for SeaLion.

Second

OK, putting off a lot of the big industrial projects will free up some resources (not as much as you think, they are different resources...). However it begs the question of what is Hitlers actual war plan??

Whatever happens in the West, he's going to be heading East soon. But now he doesnt have the capacity coming online in 41-42 to supply the equipment he needs. What is the USA going to do? The Germans, while they underestimated US production, certainly gave it healthy respect. They just cant ignore it. Or are they hoping that once a peace is brokered with the Uk/France the Americans will just give them free reign? Given Hitlers thoughts on the 'way the Jews were controlling America' this seems very unlikely indeed.

Given that this early planning for SeaLion assumes hes going to have to go for Britain after France, there is a very big issue - how easy is the victory over France going to be?? No-one thought it would be anything like as fast and easy as it was, so just what scale of forces are the Germans planning on? This puts them into an impossible position, really. Given a (realistic at the time) estimate of how long to conquer France, they have to assume greater British forces, hence more men needed to invade. So more equipment needed, whic draws more away from that needed to beat France, so dragging that out, so Britain calculated to be stronger, so a bigger SeaLion needed... see the problem?

I cant see it being anything other than ASB to assume they can beat France in a couple of month.s Noone on either side OTL thought this was going to happen.
 
There are a number of things I have problems with.

First

Its the ramping up of production. The problems with raising production from peacetime to wrtime quantities was by no means unique to germany. Every war economy (including the USA) had these very same, and often severe issues. It seems to have stemmed from the relatively low production rates prewar , which allowed for craftsmen and engineers to tweak and tune to get everything working, which wasnt possible when war started (indeed, these issues affcted prewar buildups as well).

This issue seems endemic to the production methods of the time (pre computer, and very poor methods of prediction), and so I do have serious issues that germany will manage to miss these for all the important things they need for SeaLion.
All true! However, German weapon production ramped up slower than British or French. This may have been because Germany was very short of ammunition and bombs in 1939 or it may have been because of continued industrial investment in new plants.

I omitted from my original post a discussion of things that were not ready for Sealion, as that section had been edited out of the interview. For example, in 1939 Hans Geisler had hoped that Max Kramer's work on radio guided bombs, which had started in 1938, would produce a useful weapon. However, the problems of transonic aerodynamics, which were considered too complicated for the television audience, frustrated that and required years of study using wind tunnels. Similarly, a few of the very large gliders designed by Messerschmidt were ready but the Heinkel He 11Z towing aircraft wasn't available.

...OK, putting off a lot of the big industrial projects will free up some resources (not as much as you think, they are different resources...).
Sometimes the resources were the same. For example, the dockyard work to prepare for mass U-boat production included launching at least one incomplete liner, Vaterland, and breaking up the second aircraft carrier on the slip. I suspect that completing surface warships earlier was possible.

...However it begs the question of what is Hitlers actual war plan??

Whatever happens in the West, he's going to be heading East soon. But now he doesnt have the capacity coming online in 41-42 to supply the equipment he needs. What is the USA going to do? The Germans, while they underestimated US production, certainly gave it healthy respect. They just cant ignore it. Or are they hoping that once a peace is brokered with the Uk/France the Americans will just give them free reign? Given Hitlers thoughts on the 'way the Jews were controlling America' this seems very unlikely indeed.
Hitler would surely assume that the USA will not and cannot do anything if Britain falls before the USA declares war. Obviously not having built several factories and synthetic oil plants would imply lower German production of weapons and ammunition over 1941-3. It is possible that a 1941 Barbarossa in this timeline might have failed for that reason. However, Germany would not need to produce U-boats or so many anti-aircraft guns and might be able to obtain oil from Iran and Iraq to substitute for the lost synthetic production (German and Italian naval consumption would also be lower). Thus, as usual, nothing is clear.

Given that this early planning for SeaLion assumes hes going to have to go for Britain after France, there is a very big issue - how easy is the victory over France going to be?? No-one thought it would be anything like as fast and easy as it was, so just what scale of forces are the Germans planning on? This puts them into an impossible position, really. Given a (realistic at the time) estimate of how long to conquer France, they have to assume greater British forces, hence more men needed to invade. So more equipment needed, whic draws more away from that needed to beat France, so dragging that out, so Britain calculated to be stronger, so a bigger SeaLion needed... see the problem?

I cant see it being anything other than ASB to assume they can beat France in a couple of month.s Noone on either side OTL thought this was going to happen.
The improbability of quickly defeating France is the critical objection. You would need to be crazy to assume that the Germans could win so quickly. Indeed it needed the French to make some astoundingly bad decisions to allow it: sending the main reserve, the 7th Army, towards Breda, sending more reserves to the south of the French 2nd Army to protect the flank of the Maginot Line when it was realised that the Germans were sending strong forces into the Ardennes and finally failing to use any of the three Divisions Cuirassée de Réserve (DCR) to attack Meuse bridgeheads (indeed dissolving the 2nd DCR by separating its tanks from its men on trains to different towns without a battle). The POD has to be that Hitler was crazy in exactly the manner described and my excuse is that he believes that he has no other hope of victory.

The other issue of the increasing British strength may not be such a problem if you believe that the British forces sent to France will be defeated in France. The idea is to invade quickly after the Battle of France so that you meet only those forces retained in the UK. It might be assumed that that force would be of roughly constant strength.

That's not the only reason for hating a successful Sealion, but it is a good one.
You are quite correct! This is a nightmare scenario to cheer us up by showing that things could be much much worse!
 
german weapon production ramped up slower for two reasons.
First, it was already at a high level, so not as much room for quick growth by adding shifts
Second, they were very low on some essential materials, especially copper and rubber. So no matter what they want to do, they cant make more than a certain amount. Which is why SeaLion preps MUST reduce the other production, no way around this. they can be as efficient as they like, without raw materials it gets them nowhere
 
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