Ireland if sealion was sucessful
- Thread starter NIK PARMEN
- Start date
Be conquered too, IF Germany can even pull of the unmentionable-sea-mammal....
RedRalphWiggum
Banned
I would imagine we would have surrenderd lickety-split. ?wouldn't be much else we could have done.there could well have been some guerilla resistance from left-wing groups, but if the Germans returned NI to Dublin, then I'm sad to say, most Irish would probably have been indifferent to it.
I'd imagine in return for Ulster, Dublin will become something of a German shadow. If the war continues in some fashion then the Germans might want Irish ports for use but if not, probably a similar set-up to Switzerland or Finland and the Soviets. Still a democracy but with severe limitations on criticising the big bully to the west.
That sounds like the most likely outcome to me; Ireland wouldn't be worth the trouble of invading, and giving them Northern Ireland would do a lot to placate anybody who wanted to fight the Nazis (particularly since trying to fight a Germany that just conquered Britain would be suicide).
All that said, I'll toss in the generic disclaimer that the OTL Sealion plan was completely unworkable. However, plenty of people on this board have come up with ATLs were Nazi Germany gained the capacity to invade Britain at some point.
RedRalphWiggum
Banned
Maybe at first, but I can't see why they would have left us as anything other than a satellite for long. If anything,m to prevent the country becoming a huge base for US espionage.
My guess is there will some sort of American presence in Eire or making Eire a US protectorate. At the very least, Eire should be a flashpoint between Germany and the USA.
I am assuming that Great Britain doesn't fall quickly. Germany should have a time of it pacifying Cornwall, Scotland, and Wales.
I am assuming that Great Britain doesn't fall quickly. Germany should have a time of it pacifying Cornwall, Scotland, and Wales.
If Sealion suceeds, Britain may fall within a couple of weeks. Ireland will immediately attempt to form some alliance with the USA.
I Blame Communism
Banned
Um, what? Wales and Scotland is where the real mountain country is, which is good for partisans, but there's arse all in Cornwall. I'm not saying the Cornish resistance would be any weaker, no disrespect to them, but there's no reason why "Cornwall" (or indeed "Scotland" or "Wales") would be more problematic than anywhere else.
And to be honest, Britain wasn't equipped for a Yugoslav-style campaign, much as Churchill would have wanted to fight one (give the man his due: he meant what he said about our timeframe for surrendah), and without any liberating army fighting on deeper in the country, there's not much we can do except tie down some MPs and second-rate stuff.
RedRalphWiggum
Banned
Why on Earth would we have done that, given the facf that they would be helpless to defend us? Sadly, many Irish people took the 'enemy of my enemy' attitude towards the Nazis...
Well both countries have always had very strong relations. And the enemey of my enemy doesn't becomes a lot more threatening once said enemy has been vanquished.
I can't think it's likely they'd want to provoke the Germans by allying with the USA - assuming the USA wanted any such thing, which they almost certainly wouldn't in 1940: after all, what could Eire offer them?
I believe plans were in place to give NI to Eire, save perhaps some of the naval installations and dockyards for German use (especially necessary given that much of the RN would now be in Canada/US). I can't imagine Germans would want to get involved in the consequent Sectarian fighting by occupying them formally, but rather leave it to the Irish to deal with.
Ireland would probably be allowed to do its own thing under a leadership acceptable to Berlin, with a probable German presence to ensure the Irish police dealt with any espionage. Naturally, it might change if the US or rump Empire looked like it was going to use Eire as an invasion springboard.
Even if isolationist 1940 US wanted to get involved in World War II, Ireland would not ally with them after Britain gets occupied by Nazi Germany. It would still take years for the US to build up any sort of appreciable force in Europe, while the Nazi army that just occupied Britain is a lot closer. Ireland openly defying a Sealion-capable Nazi Germany would be national suicide.
Ireland was well aware that neutrality didn't offer any resiliance against the threat of invasion, consequently, Ireland entered into negotiations with London to form a plan of action called 'Plan W'.
The successful invasion of the Free State would depend on the success of Sealion. Plan W was a plan of action in the event of German troops landing on the south coast of Ireland. This involved the formation of a new 'BEF' in Ulster and these troops would move south into the Free State, initially artilllery, motorised vehicles and armour which the Irish were woefully short of. The Irish Free State army was small, but surprisingly well-disciplined, it's leaders having gained considerable experience in, not only the First War but also in the War of Independence against the British. Here they gained experience of managing smaller forces against bigger and better equipped ones. Something that no doubt would've come in handy against the Germans.
The German plan, would be to land motorised battalions and commandos to to combat Irish forces in the south, and to use their navy to hinder the landing of equipment by the British.
I think a german victory would be inevitable, however, what would be interesting would be what a post invasion Ireland would be like.
The successful invasion of the Free State would depend on the success of Sealion. Plan W was a plan of action in the event of German troops landing on the south coast of Ireland. This involved the formation of a new 'BEF' in Ulster and these troops would move south into the Free State, initially artilllery, motorised vehicles and armour which the Irish were woefully short of. The Irish Free State army was small, but surprisingly well-disciplined, it's leaders having gained considerable experience in, not only the First War but also in the War of Independence against the British. Here they gained experience of managing smaller forces against bigger and better equipped ones. Something that no doubt would've come in handy against the Germans.
The German plan, would be to land motorised battalions and commandos to to combat Irish forces in the south, and to use their navy to hinder the landing of equipment by the British.
I think a german victory would be inevitable, however, what would be interesting would be what a post invasion Ireland would be like.
I wonder how the Ulster Unionists would react. They would still have plenty of arms caches and there would still be the infrastructure and organisation of various groups that could be used against the Germans.
Yes I'm sure the UVF and such like would conduct some sort of guerilla campaign in the North. As the British had calculated that the Germans intended to land in Donegal and Sligoas well as southern counties; the Six Counties would've come under attack pretty quickly. How effective it would be is hard to say. Similarly, despite some misguided sympathies for the Third Reich from some IRA members notably Seamus O'Donovan, the IRA in the South may have conducted a similar campaign against the Nazis. On the political spectrum the Nazis were at the opposite end to the IRA. The IRA, with their left-wing brand of nationalism would perhaps have launched a limited campaign. I'm sure the remnants of the Irish Army may have joined forces with the IRA to fight the common enemy. However, I think this resistance would be short-lived as the Germans set out to subjugate the people.
Alright I'm obviously the newest guy hear, so I'll ask. What is, or what does the "unmentionable sea mammal" stand for?
Operation Seelowe, or Sealion. We use unmentionable sea mammal because Sealion is a cliche of AH, and many people (mostly noobs) love to start off with a post asking WI Sealion occured, and well, we get sick of it.
One cannot know what the Unmentionable Sea Mammal is, for it is the bane of Alternative History incarnate.
However, the base for it, and what we really mean by this term is the never attempted ((for VERY good reason)) Operation Sealion, a planned German Invasion of Great Britain during 1940. The reason that we call it the Unmentionable Sea Mammal is because of the sheer number of AH NOOBZ that always use this nearly impossible invasion as the reason the the Nazis win WWII, which IMHO is utterly impossible.