Zwei Adler, Ein Kaiser

[Valdemar II]

I agree with Susano about Breslau, Berlin at this point was are growing fast, but it's less than half the size of Vienna and lack the political and historical prestige of either Prague or Vienna. Breslau are also a rather bad choice geographical and size wise, it have around half of Berlins or Pragues population, it placed in a important province but with little access to the rest of the Habsburg-Hohenzollern possesions.
Vienna are place perfect because it give access to Hungary and Germany through the Donau, but also lay close to Regentsburg. The benefits of Prague would be the Elb, which would ensure a easy access to Hohenzollern possesion.
Berlin have few benefits, it lays excellent for the control of Brandenburg-Magdeburg-Pommern the important possesions of the Hohenzollern, plus it also give a good access to Silesia and a average one to Bohemia, but are lousy placed to deal with Hungary and Austria. It also lays in the ass end of Germany in cold damp swamp.
My guess are either Vienna stay the dynastys seat or they move it to Plague. If the next war end with the conquest of Bavaria, they may move the seat to Regensburg.

 

[The Sandman]

The "who-gets-the-capital" thing could of course be even more complicated.

Prague would be the seat of the Habsburg-Hohenzollern family estate; it's rich enough and large enough to make a worthy home for the Imperial line, and the Elbe gives it decent communications with the rest of Germany. I would expect that the capitals of the Austrian and Prussian halves of the combined domains, though, would remain Vienna and Berlin; especially in the case of Vienna, there's too much history tied up in it to abandon that easily.

Also, one thing we might see (in order to even out the prestige balance a tiny bit title-wise) is Silesia being transferred to the Prussian half of the kingdom. It would be the sort of present I can see Maria Theresa giving Frederick for an anniversary, and is of course hilarious for historical reasons.

And I see Maria Theresa being in charge of most of the domestic affairs of the kingdoms by default, given that Frederick is going to be campaigning with the army for much of his reign. I also expect that the answer to the question of who wears the pants in their relationship is "sometimes not even they know for sure".

 

[Monty Burns]

I'd go for Prague as capital, but mainly because I want to see a TL in which the capital of the German Empire and its largest state is only partially German. Should become quite interesting in the next century.

Another point I just thought about: I'd expect that Maria Theresia as a good Hapsburg will have plenty of children ITTL. And she's got a formerly Protestant husband which doesn't care that much about religion. IOTL, all of her children were married to Catholics. ITTL, her husband might propose other options...

 

[Susano]

Berlin have few benefits, it lays excellent for the control of Brandenburg-Magdeburg-Pommern the important possesions of the Hohenzollern, plus it also give a good access to Silesia and a average one to Bohemia, but are lousy placed to deal with Hungary and Austria. It also lays in the ass end of Germany in cold damp swamp.

No, actually, it lays in an uncultivated, dirty sandpit. Important difference in unusable land there

My guess are either Vienna stay the dynastys seat or they move it to Plague. If the next war end with the conquest of Bavaria, they may move the seat to Regensburg.

Regensburg isnt Bavarian, though. Its a Free Imperial City, otherwise it would never have become seat of the Permanent Imperial Diet, and is surrounded by a bishopric. And only surrounding that is Bavaria

Prague would be the seat of the Habsburg-Hohenzollern family estate; it's rich enough and large enough to make a worthy home for the Imperial line, and the Elbe gives it decent communications with the rest of Germany. I would expect that the capitals of the Austrian and Prussian halves of the combined domains, though, would remain Vienna and Berlin; especially in the case of Vienna, there's too much history tied up in it to abandon that easily.

Also, one thing we might see (in order to even out the prestige balance a tiny bit title-wise) is Silesia being transferred to the Prussian half of the kingdom. It would be the sort of present I can see Maria Theresa giving Frederick for an anniversary, and is of course hilarious for historical reasons.

You have absolutely teh wrong view on how German states of that era were built up. At the latest with Fredercisk and MTs common son ascending the throne there wont be Austrian and Prussian halves. After all, this is how both Prussia and Austria were built up even before their union: Collections of territories bound to each other by personal union, with some common administration services superposed. Same will happen with the Austria-Prussia union. Hence there is also no distinction between the "family estate" and the realm. The capital is where the imperial-royal residence is.

I'd go for Prague as capital, but mainly because I want to see a TL in which the capital of the German Empire and its largest state is only partially German. Should become quite interesting in the next century.

Of course that already was the case in the 14th century with the Luxemburg Dynasty

Another point I just thought about: I'd expect that Maria Theresia as a good Hapsburg will have plenty of children ITTL.

That still requires a man. And I can see Frederick calling it quit after two sons or maybe already even one. After all, for him the, ah, act of procreation would indeed just be dour fulfillment of duty.

OTL, all of her children were married to Catholics. ITTL, her husband might propose other options...

Eh, but as said, it seems to me she was plenty devout and at times bigotted herself.

 

[mailinutile2]

That still requires a man.

Ora at least an handsome page

 

[Susano]

Ora at least an handsome page

Heheh. But that would create quite an uproar. If Frederick is seperated from MT, then birtsh of royal bastards would be easy to recognice.

 

[Valdemar II]

No, actually, it lays in an uncultivated, dirty sandpit. Important difference in unusable land there

Good point.

Regensburg isnt Bavarian, though. Its a Free Imperial City, otherwise it would never have become seat of the Permanent Imperial Diet, and is surrounded by a bishopric. And only surrounding that is Bavaria

Yes I'm aware, but I still think that if they get Bavaria, they will be strong enough to just move in, not annex it, just place their residence in the city. It would be a rather symbolic gesture.

That still requires a man. And I can see Frederick calling it quit after two sons or maybe already even one. After all, for him the, ah, act of procreation would indeed just be dour fulfillment of duty.

He need to secure the dynasty, and keep MT busy (if she's not, she's going to run the show), and a lot of children would help with that. Beside while a lot of sons was a problem a century earlier, at this point where the possesion doesn't need to be split, they're a enourmous benefit (to say nothing about daugthers). In OTL Frederick diedn't need to procreate, simply because his sibling was able to produce his heir. Here every child would be help improving his political position.

Eh, but as said, it seems to me she was plenty devout and at times bigotted herself.

I doubt she will allow them to marry Protestants, but she ma use them as reward for conversion. That may move a lot of the medium size states into Imperial orbit.

 

[Susano]

Yes I'm aware, but I still think that if they get Bavaria, they will be strong enough to just move in, not annex it, just place their residence in the city. It would be a rather symbolic gesture.

That would upset just about everybody. Not only is that a bad precedent, it also renders the point of the Permanent Imperial Diet being in a neutral city absolutely moot. It could hence even move.

He need to secure the dynasty, and keep MT busy (if she's not, she's going to run the show), and a lot of children would help with that. Beside while a lot of sons was a problem a century earlier, at this point where the possesion doesn't need to be split, they're a enourmous benefit (to say nothing about daugthers). In OTL Frederick diedn't need to procreate, simply because his sibling was able to produce his heir. Here every child would be help improving his political position.

Im aware of that. Much offspring was an asset in that time, especially male offspring. Nontheless, it only takes one son to keep the thing going, and maybe a second one as "backup" (people could die quickly at that time, after all). Even more sons would of course be benefitial, but I can very well see Frederick not caring about that.

 

[mailinutile2]

Royal bastards are often accepted as legitimate sons in royal houses in order to hush the scandal.
(that is everybody, including the sad husband pretend to believe that they are legitimate sons and not really bastards, even if everybody else gossips like an old unmarried aunt.)
In Italy (less than 100-years-long kingdom) a couple of bastads even reached the throne.

 

[Susano]

Royal bastards are often accepted as legitimate sons in royal houses in order to hush the scandal.
(that is everybody, including the sad husband pretend to believe that they are legitimate sons and not really bastards, even if everybody else gossips like an old unmarried aunt.)
In Italy (less than 100-years-long kingdom) a couple of bastads even reached the throne.

Bastards by males. There is a major difference. And given the nature of the marriage as a great union between two dynasties, I cant really see Frederick letting such things slide by.

 

[mailinutile2]

no, I am indeed speaking of bastards by female.
there is no scandal (well, not-so-much of a scandal) if the husband has a bastard.

but if the wife has one there would be a big one, ans even the blameless husband would be involved (pride and so on).

Thus everyone often prefer to turn a blind eye, and pretend to believe that the child is his husband's mother's son

Vittorio Emanuele II (who, I add as a passing remark, has been the most respected king in Italy) was nicknamed "the butcher's son"

 

[Susano]

Eh, but looking at Frederick William and Frederick II IOTL - really, they never cared greatly about scandals, but they did care about getting their due.

 

[Monty Burns]

Of course that already was the case in the 14th century with the Luxemburg Dynasty

I know. But there's first a difference in the importance of a capital between 14th century Germany and 18th/19th century Germany and second, yet more important, there's a small difference called nationalism which may emerge pretty soon with the Czechs and which should make Prague as the German capital quite an interesting fact.

That still requires a man. And I can see Frederick calling it quit after two sons or maybe already even one. After all, for him the, ah, act of procreation would indeed just be dour fulfillment of duty.

OK, I assumed that that had changed, too.

Nevertheless, it's one thing to neglect your wife and sent her to a remote castle, yet it's another thing if that wife happens to be the Hapsburg heiress and in fact holds larger territories than you do. She might give him no chance to "avoid his duties"

 

[The Federalist]

Ora at least an handsome page

Are you talking about one for Maria or Frederick?

 

[Theodoric]

Also, one thing we might see (in order to even out the prestige balance a tiny bit title-wise) is Silesia being transferred to the Prussian half of the kingdom. It would be the sort of present I can see Maria Theresa giving Frederick for an anniversary, and is of course hilarious for historical reasons.

I think Jimbrock's trying to write a timeline here, not a sitcom.

 

[Jimbrock]

Hrm. So Breslau is built up as now Imperial residence? I dunno... seems kinda artifical to me, I think they would stick with Vienna, or maybe Prague or Berlin...

Slow down, Breslau isnt the capital city. To all participating in the 'capital debate', Breslau is just the recidence of the H-H family before they inherit either throne. It will not evolve into the capital city of the two empires, I am aware of all its...faults, it is only temporary and chosen for its (relative) proximity to both capitals.

I think Jimbrock's trying to write a timeline here, not a sitcom.

Indeed, it is very AH.Com that the TL discussion ends up into a debate on bastards.
Does anyone except Susano have any non-bastard related criticism?

 

[mailinutile2]

we are all enthusiasts, go on!

 

[Valdemar II]

That would upset just about everybody. Not only is that a bad precedent, it also renders the point of the Permanent Imperial Diet being in a neutral city absolutely moot. It could hence even move.

But the point are if the Habsburg-Hohenzollern are in a position where they have gained Bavaria too (and still have most of their old possesion), they're simply such a powerful force in Germany, that they have de facto established the HRE as a unified state. As such it would be a clear signal to move to the city where the Diets lays. Especially if they keep it as a "Free" Imperial City. Symbols meant a lot at the time and this tell a new Era has begun.

Im aware of that. Much offspring was an asset in that time, especially male offspring. Nontheless, it only takes one son to keep the thing going, and maybe a second one as "backup" (people could die quickly at that time, after all). Even more sons would of course be benefitial, but I can very well see Frederick not caring about that.

So can I, but I think he may decided to do so any way, he wasn't a fool, and he know that while MT are his biggest ally, she was also his potential biggest rival for power, and he knows how competent she are. As such this are a way to keep her busy, while also strengthen his long term political options.

 

[mailinutile2]

Eagle gossip

Whel OTL Fritz grabbed a chunk of poland, he had a lot of posters to be pasted on walls to show who was the new boss.
The posters were an image of the prussian eagle with the family motto "Suum Cuique" (To Each one, his own).
Poles had the nasty habit of adding a word to the posters when prussian officers were not around: "Suum Cuique, rapuit" ([he] robs each one of his own).

This night I had the terrible vision of a poster with two eagles (one with two heads) mating

 

[Jimbrock]

we are all enthusiasts, go on!

Good to know.

But the point are if the Habsburg-Hohenzollern are in a position where they have gained Bavaria too (and still have most of their old possesion), they're simply such a powerful force in Germany, that they have de facto established the HRE as a unified state. As such it would be a clear signal to move to the city where the Diets lays. Especially if they keep it as a "Free" Imperial City. Symbols meant a lot at the time and this tell a new Era has begun.

No, they would not move into a neutral and still technically 'foreign' city. And Im not sure I agree with your views on a united HRE, but I shall not comment further.

This night I had the terrible vision of a poster with two eagles (one with two heads) mating

That is effectively what the TL brings about...