Your Predictions For HT's SETTLING ACCOUNTS: TO THE DEATH

Is there any chance you think the US' first A-Bomb target will be on Japan rather than the CSA?

Like some have said, re-integrating the CSA politically and culturally may be more difficult if they were nuked.
I really don't think Japan will be a target for a A-bomb. In this timeline, the USA won't have the same level of anger against Japan since there was no suprise attact on Pearl Harbor. What reason do the two nations have to fight anyway? Hawaii? That's it and Japan is out of the running for that. I don't think it will be hard for Japan and the USA to come to peace and soon.

In TL-191, the real threats against the USA are Mexico, Canada, the CSA, and Britain. In Canada, there is an insurgency, so nuclear weapons won't be that effective. That leaves Britain, the CSA, and Mexico. If a bomb is even used at all, I think this is where it will be.

You're right about nuking the CSA making it harder to reintegrate the two nations, however, in the American Civil War Atlanta and a huge swath of the South was burned to the ground. Yes there was resentment, but that anger faded over time (sure it took something like 40 years). But it faded. There is precedent. That and I think the former parts of the CSA will be suffering from serious hardship and war weariness. So resistance to occupation will be minimal IMO.
 
Or do you guys think Germany will use The Bomb first in this timeline?

Here are some possible targets for them:
Paris, London, Moscow
 
If Einstein and the rest of major German physics are working for the Kaiser, that is the most probable.

However, the war woud be far more interesting if the French or the British nuke Berlin first...
 
If Einstein and the rest of major German physics are working for the Kaiser, that is the most probable.

However, the war woud be far more interesting if the French or the British nuke Berlin first...

Unlikely. Like you said, with Einstein, Teller, ect. working for Germany or Austria-Hungary [and Enrico Fermi working in Italy presumably, which I think is more pro-Central Powers], the German Empire will use the bomb first (on London, Paris, Petrograd, or Moscow). The USA will use it next (on Charleston perhaps, since that's where the CSA was born).
 
Germany getting the bomb first is a solid bet. In OTL, they had the best physicists and I don't see why that still wouldn't be true. Just this time around they wouldn't flea the country. The US being the industrial machine it is puts it in a good spot to be second. Next, I'd say is Britain since they still have their empire to rely on and are probably the number three industrial power.

The CSA being in the running is bull IMO. They would have fewer world class scientists, fewer world class learning institutions that the USA, a much smaller industrial base than OTL USA, fewer spare resources, and limited/no uranium deposits. Here is a link to a map for uranium production.
http://www.wise-uranium.org/img/uresw.gif
That makes me think they wouldn't have any in Sonora or Chihuahua nor any to be gotten in Mexico. Also, looking at my World Atlas, there doesn't appear to be any major uranium mining operations in the OTL Southern States. Also, I have my doubts looking at Uranium soil deposits, which can be found here in the "Uranium exploration and mining" section.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium
Assuming there is correlation between uranium soil deposits and uranium mineral deposits, that leaves maybe some limited uranium in the Appalachians. I doubt their would be enough to extract to achieve a critical mass. I doubt they'll be able to import any during the war. So how in the H*ll do they have a nuclear program? The CSA should not get a bomb. So the order should go
Germany
USA
Britain
Austria-Hungarian Empire
Japan
Russia
France
CSA
I can't remember if Turtledove mentions a UK nuclear program. I think it's realistic that Germany will get it first. Then the USA. Then Britain. Then Japan. Germany and the USA gets them in time to use in the war. Britain and Japan get them after the war. Nobody else gets them until late 50s. There won't be a CSA left after the war so they can't have the bomb.

As for who takes it on the chin first, I'd say Britain gets nuked first. Then CSA. Then Germany hits Britain again, or Russia.

Of course, even though I enjoy the books, Turtledove doesn't always play by the facts. Sometimes he engineers things to come out how he want them to.

Incidently, looking up the Manhattan Project, I found this on Wikipedia: "the Manhattan Project would eventually employ over 130,000 people and cost a total of nearly $2 billion USD ($20 billion in 2004 dollars based on CPI)"
The US GDP at the time, about $100-200 billion dollars as shown here (it went up quite a bit during the war):
http://home.att.net/~rdavis2/debt03.html
I think it's plausible that the CSA would have 1/5 to 1/4 the GDP of OTL USA. Maybe more extreme since the slave system would have stagnated their economy for quite some time. That means they would have to commit something like 5-10% of their GDP to the project. I don't think they could do that and have a total war on all front of their borders at the same time while exterminating a significant portion of its work force (black halocaust).
 
I don't think so David, AFAIK there no real animosity betwixt the USA and Imperial Germany, and they don't really have any mutual strategic conflicts. Bearing that in mind post-war they might not be best of buddies but so far as i see there no real reason for any kind of tension/escalation.
 
So will the USA and Germany get into a Cold War? What would be the catlyst?
I think the USA and Japan will be going into a cold war. Not sure about the USA and Germany. I'm guessing Germany will still side with the USA because of cultural reasons and trade relations. I'm not really sure why the USA and Germany would butt heads anyway. The distrust that was present between the USA and USSR in OTL WWII just isn't there. There isn't really that big of an ideological difference that I can see either.

It seems like the USA will dominate the Americas, Germany will dominate Europe and Africa, and Japan will dominate Asia. That could make for a world where the big powers stay on good term and relatively peaceful with each other. Just a guess.
 
I think the USA and Japan will be going into a cold war. Not sure about the USA and Germany. I'm guessing Germany will still side with the USA because of cultural reasons and trade relations. I'm not really sure why the USA and Germany would butt heads anyway. The distrust that was present between the USA and USSR in OTL WWII just isn't there. There isn't really that big of an ideological difference that I can see either.

It seems like the USA will dominate the Americas, Germany will dominate Europe and Africa, and Japan will dominate Asia. That could make for a world where the big powers stay on good term and relatively peaceful with each other. Just a guess.
I dunno. In one of the books set between WWI and WWII, there were several direct and indirect mentions of Germany and the USA becoming vaguely... cold towards one another. I kinda remember one scene taking place in Ireland, between German and American naval crews. Messy business.
 
I dunno. In one of the books set between WWI and WWII, there were several direct and indirect mentions of Germany and the USA becoming vaguely... cold towards one another. I kinda remember one scene taking place in Ireland, between German and American naval crews. Messy business.

It was implied in the books that the 191's world assumed that the USA and Germany would fight each other one day for control of the world. Why? I don't know.
 
Or do you guys think Germany will use The Bomb first in this timeline?

Here are some possible targets for them:
Paris, London, Moscow

In The Grapple, Germany has threatened the Entente powers with "unprecedented destruction" which is code(to me anyway) for "we have the bomb"
 
Before "in the Grapple" I thought Germnay would defeat France, and then Nuke Liverpool or Coventry to0 avoid a difficult invasion of England. (OTL sealion).

If Turtledove mirrors OTL European Theater in North America, then why shouldn't he mirror OTL Asian Theater in Europe?

But the last book showed some differences, so I don't think this is likely.

By the was: I still hope for some kind of spin-of from this series.

The Russian Civil war or something like that.
 

Superdude

Banned
Actually, there was mention of Japan as a future major player in world politics.

I think it was a Sam Carsten conversation.
 
Before "in the Grapple" I thought Germnay would defeat France, and then Nuke Liverpool or Coventry to0 avoid a difficult invasion of England. (OTL sealion).

If Turtledove mirrors OTL European Theater in North America, then why shouldn't he mirror OTL Asian Theater in Europe?

But the last book showed some differences, so I don't think this is likely.

By the was: I still hope for some kind of spin-of from this series.

The Russian Civil war or something like that.

Would be interesting.
 
Irving Morrel sadly gets killed in a Car accident just like Patton did in OTL...

Morrel=Rommell, not Patton. ;-)

In The Grapple, Germany has threatened the Entente powers with "unprecedented destruction" which is code(to me anyway) for "we have the bomb"

My guess, they just mean "We're close to the bomb."



I was kinda disappointed at the ending of The Grapple (I just finished the book a couple of hours ago). When Featherston mentioned he had two things coming for Philadelphia (the V-1s), I was thinking "Ho' shit, he got the bomb." In retrospect, that was a silly thought, but I think that'd be a nice twist. Confederates getting the bomb first, taking out Philadelphia, New York, and a couple of other cities? Good times. ;-)
 
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Actually, there was mention of Japan as a future major player in world politics.

I think it was a Sam Carsten conversation.

One of Flora's chapters in the Grapple mentioned the USA will have to deal with Japan one day after the Japanese pullout from Midway and Wake.
 
I can see the USA occupying the CSA, but I don’t think they would try reunification. The CS population would be bitterly opposed to it the USA would face generation after generation of uprisings (Just like the Mormons but on a far larger scale) plus their troops would be too thin on the ground to control every hotspot.

The US won’t need to occupy the CSA anyway the threat of nuclear weapons should be enough to stop any future aggression by the CSA.

In my opinion the most likely scenarios are:

1) The USA sets-up a puppet CSA government (or at least a more rational and sane one) that would be more palatable to the CS citizens and would avoid the problems trying re-unifaction would bring., The CSA would also be banned from reasrching nuclear weapons.

2) Britain loses Malaya but hangs on to India. Japan conquers the rest of China and takes aussieland. Creating an almost-perfect pacific empire

3) The US and Japan ‘call it a draw’ in the pacific…for a few years at least.

4)The blacks get full CS citizenship or are allowed to freely re-locate to the US, The freedom party is outlawed and useing their slogans or salutes in public or for political purposes is harshly punished

5) The war in Europe not sure, it seems to sway back and forth, but Germany is outnumbered and even though they have Einstein etc I’m pretty sure Germany isn’t a big producer of uranium. So no nukes for them.

As a side note I wonder were Hitler is in all this, I suppuse since the Germans won WW1 he wont accuse the Jews of stabbing the German army in the back.:p
 
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I agree with the idea of Mexico pulling an Italy and stabbing the CSA in the back. I see there being a partitioned CSA ala Germany in OTL, but the problem would be (since the US is going alone here) who would administer the different partitions. The only way I can see it is to have a rump CSA consisting of NC, SC, Georgia, Florida, and Alabama (after defreedomization, of course). Mississippi and Louisiana would be set as a black governed partition. A third partition would consist of the western CSA and be governed either directly by the US or have a US puppet (maybe even absorbed into the US after 50 years or so). I see Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas and Viginia being directly taken in to the US as at the very least buffer states. I do not think Mexico would get any land out of this as the US would think that allowing Mexico to even exist would be thanks enough for their treachary to both sides. As for the long term situation for Canada, I'm not too sure, but I think the US has invested too much money and manpower to just say,"Ok, we're tired of dealing with you, go govern yourselves and let those lovely Brits give you a hand. :D"

I'm not great with mapmaking skills or I'd whip up a map of what I'm thinking.
 
I can see the USA occupying the CSA, but I don’t think they would try reunification. The CS population would be bitterly opposed to it the USA would face generation after generation of uprisings (Just like the Mormons but on a far larger scale) plus their troops would be too thin on the ground to control every hotspot.

The US won’t need to occupy the CSA anyway the threat of nuclear weapons should be enough to stop any future aggression by the CSA.

In my opinion the most likely scenarios are:

1) The USA sets-up a puppet CSA government (or at least a more rational and sane one) that would be more palatable to the CS citizens and would avoid the problems trying re-unifaction would bring., The CSA would also be banned from reasrching nuclear weapons.

2) Britain loses Malaya but hangs on to India. Japan conquers the rest of China and takes aussieland. Creating an almost-perfect pacific empire

3) The US and Japan ‘call it a draw’ in the pacific…for a few years at least.

4)The blacks get full CS citizenship or are allowed to freely re-locate to the US, The freedom party is outlawed and useing their slogans or salutes in public or for political purposes is harshly punished

5) The war in Europe not sure, it seems to sway back and forth, but Germany is outnumbered and even though they have Einstein etc I’m pretty sure Germany isn’t a big producer of uranium. So no nukes for them.

As a side note I wonder were Hitler is in all this, I suppuse since the Germans won WW1 he wont accuse the Jews of stabbing the German army in the back.:p

I've got doubts that the Japanese would be able to conquer all of China even in this TL. China's got something like five times the people than Japan does, so I would think they would settle for Manchokuo-like puppet states centered around Beijing, Nanjing and Guangzhou, leaving a rump Chinese state.

I also think you're right in saying that the war of numbers is eventually going to bite Germany. I can predict that Russia will make some type of comeback like OT WWII, except that after the war the borders will remain basically the same as they were prior to GWII. France is also still in the picture, as well as the British, so that also adds to Germany's woes.

I'm also not sure how long Austria-Hungary can last in terms of maintaining internal stability, considering the ungodly amount of ethnic strife that takes place. I'm picturing something like a Soviet Union-type collapse. Same goes for the Ottoman Empire.

As for the Confederacy. Well, they're basically f--ed, unless Fitzbellmont can somehow pull a nuke out of his ass, which likely isn't going to happen. Even without the bombs, uber-General Morrell will be on the attack, cut the CSA in half and end up a war hero. Later, he'll be this timelines Eisenhower and not only that they'll name the next generation of barrells after him. M1A1 Morrell Barrell's? You betcha.

Other predictions I'm going to make, include:

Daniel MacArthur will also finally do something right too, (throughout the Grapple the Virginia front went basically nowhere), and push down into Richmond, where Jake Featherston will take control of an artillery piece and fire at US troops until he dies in a blaze of glory.

General 'Fat Man' Abner Dowling will continue his push into Texas. I wouldn't be surprised that somepoint during 'In at the Death', Dowling will get a heatstroke or die from a heart attack, after all he isn't exactly fit and obese men generally don't live to grow old.

Michael Pound will continue to pwn the Confederacy, while receiving more unwanted promotions. He'll probably end up a major or lieutenant colonel before the war is done. He'll be in the military up until the day he dies.

Chester Martin ends up baby-sitting all of Flora Blackford's relatives while on the front. In Great War it was David Hamburger, and this time around he hooks up with Yossel Reisen Jr. and Joshua Blackford, along with Armstrong Grimes. I'm also betting that Grimes ends up hitting on Morrell's daughter after the war.

As for Flora Blackford herself, she'll continue her Congressional Carreer, and possibly make it into the Supreme court.

Sam Carsen and George Enos Jr. will do their thing. I predict Carsen will get promoted again because of a oppotune death of a high ranking officer, and hopefully end the war commanding a battleship, if not an Aircraft carrier. I mean, he should after years of faithful service with the navy.

Clearance Potter and Nathan Bedford III try to pull an assasination on Featherston, only to fail and be sent to have their population reduced.

Jeff Pinkard undergoes a Nuremburg-style execution, or if he escapes, decides to hightail it to Argentina or South Africa. Ferd Koenig will take a suicide pill, and Saul Goldman will administer poison to his wife and all six of his children just like Goebbels did. As for the hapless CSA vice-president (I forgot his name, showing just how unimportant he is), well, he'll probably be executed too, poor chap.

Jorge Rodriguez will either get killed, or return to Sonora after the war finding out that it belongs to Mexico, where afterwards he'll illegally cross the border into California. Jerry Dover, not sure how he's gonna end up, except that he'll do his duty until the end, and then be left to rebuild whatever is left of the rump-Confederate state.

Also, Cassius, Scipio's son, ends up the chiarman of one of the new Black Socialist Republics in Mississippi and Alabama. Jonathan Moss will go back to being a lawyer again, or he'll probably take part as one of the judges of the Nuremburg-type trial. As for Cincinnatus, don't really know what's going to happen to him, besides that he'll return to his job and afterwards live out a cozy retirement.

Spartacus and his gang will also be high-ranking members of the black Socialist republic.

So, here are some of my predictions, tell me what you think?
 
I can see the USA occupying the CSA, but I don’t think they would try reunification. The CS population would be bitterly opposed to it the USA would face generation after generation of uprisings (Just like the Mormons but on a far larger scale) plus their troops would be too thin on the ground to control every hotspot.

1) The USA sets-up a puppet CSA government (or at least a more rational and sane one) that would be more palatable to the CS citizens and would avoid the problems trying re-unifaction would bring., The CSA would also be banned from reasrching nuclear weapons.

The US already plans to absorb Kentucky and Tennessee, and is putting Houston back up (if they haven't already). Whether they'll plan on taking back more states or not is uncertain... Perhaps Georgia as well, so they've both got the CSA constantly split in two, and will make future wars a lot easier to win (not that there will be any, with the US at least having nukes, and most likely the CSA as well). As for the rest, it'll probably be a puppet government. Perhaps the two portions of the CSA will be split into entirely seperate nations. It'd be a hell of a lot harder for a new Featherston to take over if he'd have to win political control of two nations that aren't even bordering eachother.
 
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