WI No Alexander the Great?

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by John Fredrick Parker, Mar 16, 2012.

  1. WhatIsAUserName Professional Catatonic

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Location:
    San Joaquin County, CA
    You've never heard of Christopher Marlowe's Tamburlaine the Great?
     
  2. John Fredrick Parker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Well, "Genghis Khan" literally means "Great Khan", so that'd be redundant; then again, while some, like Marlowe, called Timur "the Great", he's more often known as "Tamerlane", or "Timur the Lame", so... there's that. With Atila, his Hunnic Empire managed to threaten Rome, then collapse, pretty much ensuring historians would know him as "the Hun" (read "the Foreigner"), rather than praised by future generations of his own people as "the Great".
     
  3. Errnge You don't throw ranch

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Why did this become a moral discussion for the love of God? :rolleyes:
     
  4. Van555 Social Reformist

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
    Location:
    Santa Clara Region, Republic of California
    everything is about morality especially in the ancient world!
     
  5. TyranicusMaximus Irrational Statist

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2010
    Location:
    Otto-wank Virginia
    Your guess is as good as mine, I don't see Alexander as being terribly more brutal than any other leader of his age, especially in the Greco-sphere.
     
  6. Errnge You don't throw ranch

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    At any rate, it is annoying that what could have been a very interesting conversation got high-jacked by a conversation about morals.

    I for one would like to ask that the conversation return to that of a historical conversation.

    I agree that the Macedonians would likely take a large chunk out of the Mediterranean parts of the Persian Empire. Egypt will break off surely. I think Persia will be crippled. How the Achaemenid Persian Empire inevitably falls is anybody's guess. The satrapies could break away, a new dynasty could rise up, nomads might invade: Who knows?

    I would be interested in seeing how a more stable, and presumably stronger Hellenic world stands up against the Gallic raids happen (if they aren't butterflied away).
     
  7. John Fredrick Parker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    The key thing here is that neither Persia not Egypt will be Hellenized -- this will lead to a very different Middle East, with the social legacies of Cyrus the Great quite possibly continuing unperturbed...
     
  8. Errnge You don't throw ranch

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Oh surely. I'd be very interested in seeing how Egyptian culture continues along without being Hellenized, Romanized, and (presumably) Arabized.
     
  9. MerryPrankster Gone Fishin'

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2004
    Maybe Father Damien, who worked with lepers.
     
  10. Simreeve Differently-Sane Scientist

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2012
    Location:
    Worthing, Sussex, England
    There was a board-game about the battle of Ankara, which I played once or twice back in the late' 70s, in which the scale of Timur's victory or defeat there was summed up by a set of alternative titles ranging from 'Timur the Great' (or possibly 'Timur the Magnificent') down to 'Timur Who?' ;)
     
  11. Kishan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Location:
    Bharat
    MerryPrankster is right.When I mentioned Damien I meant Father Damien who had sacrificed his own life to serve the poor lepers abandoned by all others.The other "Damien' mentioned by Saepe Fidelis,I think, is a character in an old film, the name of which I don't remember.
     
  12. Pericles Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    You seem to forget Alexander got all the way to India. He may not be great perhaps his Persian name, Iskander the Accursed is better suited to him but anyone who conquered everything from Greece to India deserves a round of applause!
     
  13. Pericles Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    I agree, it was generally expected that rulers be ruthless in those days. Anyway, we haven't finished the proper discussion. When someone calls Ivan the Terrible 'Great' then we'll have a moral discussion. Until then, shut up !
     
  14. Flocculencio Fabian Socialist

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Location:
    Chaostan
    Holy necromancy, Batman.

    He beat the Persians at Gaugamela and then moved on the sweep up the collapsing satrapies of the Empire. it was a great feat of logistics and management but it's not as if he had to fight every step of the way- and it's significant that once he pushed beyond the boundaries of the Persian Empire and faced his next round of actual military resistance (in India) he pretty much backed off- Alexander's armies were fine with holding down Persia, not with actually fighting another active campaign.
     
  15. SlyDessertFox Literally Natalie Portman

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2012
    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    They were fine with fighting another campaign. Just not in India. He was planning to go on his invasion of Arabia just days before he died.
     
  16. RGB Corn Squared

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2009
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    I'm not certain why people are calling him overrated as a general. Overrated compared to whom exactly?

    The other aspects (genocidal imperialist with delusions of godhood) might outweigh the fighting ability in the overall assessment, but the man excelled in fighting set pieces, guerrilla warfare, steppe nations and walled cities. He planned and carried complex combined operations where the strengths (his heavy cavalry) were negated.

    Sure he inherited a good army and a great command staff (the Macedonians had a glut of competent military leaders) but we don't fault Napoleon for having a good army or good staff, do we? And we don't usually say Batu was a bad general just because his grandfather built the army he was using.
     
  17. isabella Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Remeber who Alexander win three big battles (Granicus, Issos and Gaugamela) in which his enemy ha a much bigger and fresher army and he win surely because his father left him an almost perfect army but also because he was a very talented general, leader and strategist...