WI: Grissom Drowns in Liberty Bell 7, 1961

[Emperor Norton I]

In 1961, Gus Grissom almost drowned when the explosive bolts unexpectedly went off, blowing off the hatch. Liberty Bell 7 itself sunk. Grissom would later go on to serve in Project Gemini and Project Apollo, dying in the Apollo 1 fire in 1967.

What if Grissom had drowned in Liberty Bell 7?

 

[Archibald]

Well, the most obvious consequence may be that Gemini and Apollo could very well land on ground and not water. Gemini land landings were scrapped because of the paraglider fiasco; as for Apollo, early on (think it was in 1962 or 63) it was decided it would land on water.
Land landing of both capsules has some props and cons
Pros
The crew is easier to recover, and the capsule (eventually) can be reused since it is not ruined by saltwater.
Cons
Land landing systems are slightly heavier since the ground is harder than water. Cushions or retrorockets are heavier.
And of course when retrorockets don't work, you end with a Komarov.

Grissom death by drowning may not change Apollo 1 - since it was a whole different issue (pure oxygen fire).

If Gemini was forced to land on land and not water, it could have serious consequence on the paraglider story (we have to make this thing work, no way Gemini lands on water). The issue is that the paraglider just can't work - its not a classic parachute made of cloth but a rigid structure of steel tubes to be deployed in flight, and that's a bad idea.

The OTL paraglider fiasco was already bad, impacting Gemini severely. Now if NASA heavily insisted in making that thing work, things could go pretty bad. Then, delays with Gemini may delay Apollo...

 

[Paul V McNutt]

I'd say NASA improves its safety standards and the the crew of Apollo 1 live.

 

[tiggerfan]

Grissom is likely remembered more than he is today. Lots of memorials.

 

[docfl]

One of the reasons they couldn't open the hatch for Apollo 1 is hatch opened inwards because of the hatch issue with Gemini. The capsule was pressurized and they could not open the the hatch in time to save the crew. Not saying they would of been able to be saved but. Kind of ironic that Grissiom died because the hatch was redesigned after his craft hatch blew.
docfl

 

[Emperor Norton I]

One of the factors I'm most curious about is the effect of this on the space program and possible fallout over it (which you guys have been talking about). This incident brings to mind the Apollo 1 fire, of which I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, it was tragic for Grissom and all to die in that incident, and that fire created a major controversy that could have derailed the space program for want of a nail and seems like it began the death of Apollo, and it delayed the space program. On the other, it put into place redesigns and safety measures (nonflammable materials inside and an air atmosphere rather than pure oxygen, for example) which seem necessary and like they would not have come about otherwise, and it may have prevented a later tragedy.

I wonder how serious the political and PR repercussions would have been, if they would have been as much as they were on Apollo 1, and if President Kennedy could do what President Johnson did in supporting the space program as it was under investigation and criticism as during Apollo 1.

I'm also curious as to how much they would know of what happened since the craft would have sunk, and how soon the capsule and Grissom's body would have been recovered. In the OTL, the capsule was only recovered in the mid-90s.

 

[phx1138]

One of the factors I'm most curious about is the effect of this on the space program and possible fallout

IMO, this moves NASA to being a bit more cautious in testing & assembly, which could butterfly the CSM.12 fire. (I don't use Apollo I, because she never flew.) I may be overestimating the impact...

I don't think JFK's support wavers, because he couldn't afford to be seen as soft on something being used to beat the Sovs. Especially if the delay is making it look like the SU is going to get to Luna first. (I don't see that happening, but...)

If I'm right, & Apollo is safer from the start, does this mean all 20 scheduled flights go off? (I'm thinking the fire & the two unmanned test shots are butterflied, replaced by successful missions.)

 

[Alternate History Geek]

And of course when retrorockets don't work, you end with a Komarov./QUOTE]

Komarov died due to a parachute failure, not a braking-rocket failure.

 

[LostCosmonaut]

Komarov died due to a parachute failure, not a braking-rocket failure.

Not to mention all the myriad other issues his capsule had during its flight.

 

[Emperor Norton I]

Not to mention all the myriad other issues his capsule had during its flight.

Which ties into an idea I had for this topic, which is the hatch blowing off while the Liberty Bell 7 is in suborbit, but that is for another thread.

 

[Alternate History Geek]

Which ties into an idea I had for this topic, which is the hatch blowing off while the Liberty Bell 7 is in suborbit, but that is for another thread.

Two words: Oh Crap.

 

[Emperor Norton I]

Two words: Oh Crap.

Indeed. I'm not sure if you would get blown out in suborbit. In whatever case, it means things aren't going to work out (I don't know the exact ways it would) and that flight will end in disaster. If he does get blown out and the craft manages to return in one piece or a few pieces on the ground, I expect a few alien abduction conspiracy theories.

 

[phx1138]

hatch blowing off while the Liberty Bell 7 is in suborbit

That one belongs to the "screw the space program thread".

 

[Michel Van]

This Would be a serious Problem for US.
Major dissaster in manned Space Program, a Astronaut Death

the soviet will make hell on Propaganda Out of this.
That Even US abandon efford on manned spaceflight

But this could have drastic result for World History,
Depending who is us President.
With Robert Nixon, he could Focus on New Target : Invasion of cuba...

 

[Mike Stearns]

That one belongs to the "screw the space program thread".

Agreed. If that were to happen, the space program just got a bullet between the eyes.

 

[Emperor Norton I]

That one belongs to the "screw the space program thread".

This Would be a serious Problem for US.
Major dissaster in manned Space Program, a Astronaut Death

the soviet will make hell on Propaganda Out of this.
That Even US abandon efford on manned spaceflight

But this could have drastic result for World History,
Depending who is us President.
With Robert Nixon, he could Focus on New Target : Invasion of cuba...

Agreed. If that were to happen, the space program just got a bullet between the eyes.

Would it really be the end of the space program? It would certainly be a major tragedy and heads would roll and some serious investigations would be done (the details of which are for this thread to uncover), but would it literally kill the space program? You still have the Russians, a gauntlet they've thrown down, and a very public stance by the United States government that the Americans are in the race. And you have the example of the Apollo 1 fire, where NASA was taken to task and things were potentially delayed (albeit I believe the LEM wasn't ready before 1969 anyway). You could argue that Apollo 1 itself could have killed the space program if not for LBJ, but I would contend that by the fact that we're in a race with the Russians.

I don't know how bad the fallout would be or how long and delaying the investigations and potential redesigns would be, but I do get the feeling that in the event of tragedy, the President would make some historic speech, and the American people would pick themselves up and go forward with the intent to conquer space.

I think a sucked into space scenario would be worse than the drowning scenario, but I don't know about the space program being killed.

A benefit to NASA may be that it's not their fault. Apollo 1 was the result of a lot of problems and rushing. I believe the Liberty Bell 7 malfunction was just that, a malfunction.

 

[Michel Van]

I mean Not the end of us Space program in total
But only the end of us manned Space program.
This however depents on us President

 

[Emperor Norton I]

That's what I mean. The end of men into space is the end of the space program as anything that matters, and we aren't going to send off space probes while the Russians are walking in space and planting flags.

 

[Emperor Norton I]

The blown-out scenario would make David Bowie's "Space Oddity" all the more poignant. The idea that maybe Grissom just said "f*ck it" and purposely drifted off into oblivion ala the idea of the OTL that maybe he screwed up (which he didn't).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhSYbRiYwTY

 

[phx1138]

The idea that maybe Grissom just said "f*ck it" and purposely drifted off into oblivion

That could be a bigger blow than him just getting killed. (I do imagine NASA getting nutty about the psych tests, tho.)

IMO, you're right, the program wouldn't just end. The issue is the disconnect between public perception & the attitude of the astronauts. The astronauts, all test pilots, will say they should press on regardless. The media, all ignorant weenies, will say it's too dangerous...