WI Canada retains CV capability?

[TheMann]

Ive looked at this a few times and found a few assorted problems.

A new carrier costs a pile of $$$ to build, an old carrier requires a pile of $$$ to operate. Hence, the problem of funding comes up either way.

I would say the best bet is to have the new carrier to replace Bonaventure arrive in the mid to late 1960s. Best way to do that is to somehow keep a Conservative government, or perhaps a more moderate Liberal one. Uniting the forces could actually help - the Navy fell to pieces afterwards, and it could easily be said that a crisis somewhere could convince Canada to keep a carrier capability, just so they can throw some weight around in international affairs. (It woulda been useful in Cyprus, for example.)

The Essex class crew is too much for Canada - it requires 3500 crew - but something about halfway is much more doable. I thought of the idea of Canada buying the decommissioned HMS Eagle, after it was mothballed in 1972. It would be a perfect fit IMO - about twice the crew of the Majestic class, but its big enough to operate real fixed-wing aircraft, small enough that the biggest Canadian dry docks can take it fairly easily, requires 1000 less crew than the Essex class.

And with its 1972 condition being fairly rough as I understand, it woulda been bought for peanuts, but then gone into an extensive refit - which woulda been done in a Canadian shipyard, in turn helping the local economies (which were being battered at the time). HMCS Eagle, or whatever you want to call it, enters into service in 1974ish, and probably becomes a helpful asset supporting the guys on Cyprus, and would probably be deployed to help out operations elsewhere.

I never quite understood the point of Canada basing forces in Germany, with the Germans and Americans already there in big numbers and Britain and France able to move much more quickly. Remove those and you make finding money easier, too.

The Eagle carried among other aircraft the F-4 Phantom II and the Blackburn Buccaneer, both considerably bigger than the CF-18, so it is conceivably that Canada's fighters could have some directed to the Navy. (Canada's CF-18s still have carrier arresting gear, FYI.) This remains true if Canada buys Iran's F-14s, because the Hornet is a bigger aircraft than the Hornet, it is about the same size as the Buccaneer in everything but wingspan, which can be folded easily enough.

Say that the Cyprus operation and the 1973 oil crisis hits a more moderate Trudeau government, giving it a graphic vision of the need for Canada to be at least able to have some weight. (In OTL, that was part of the reason why Canada began investigating replacing its CF-101/CF-104/CF-116 fleets.) HMS Eagle, the largest British carrier, has been decommissioned, a fact which is well known to Canada, and Trudeau goes to buy it, and gets it for cheap. It goes to Saint John Shipbuilding for a major refit while Canada buys a loadout for it. This comes from the USA, which is retiring the Essex class ships and has excess aircraft as a result, and the carrier gains complements of F-4 Phantom II and A-7 Corsair II fighters. The ship also gains complements of S-2 Tracker ASW aircraft and CH-124 Sea King helicopters. As equipped, HMCS Eagle enters service in August 1974 at Halifax. Bonaventure retires in March 1975, but becomes a museum ship instead.

Canada's New Fighter Program happens as in OTL, but the forces at the same time ask for 30-40 naval fighter aircraft as part of the program, a fact which is answered by the American aircraft makers blowing the dust off of the Sea Eagle and Naval F-16 ideas. In the end, however, Canada wants aircraft that are proven platforms. The F/A-18 is chosen for the job in 1980, and is scheduled to enter Canadian Service in 1982, with the Eagle gaining a full loadout early on to keep it at full strength.

Shortly thereafter, Canada made an offer to Iran to buy Iran's fleet of 79 F-14A Tomcat fighters for a big discount, offering to buy the lot for $1.1 Billion. As Iran's economy floundered in the post-Shah chaos, the Iranians accepted. All of the Tomcats were moved in 1980, and the US gave the one Tomcat not delivered to Iran.

Eager to keep the Canucks happy and to help Canada's reworking its military to keep up with NATO problems, most of Iran's gear that hadn't been delivered goes right to Canada, including a supply of AIM-54 Phoenix missiles for the Tomcats and the Shah's four new air-warfare destroyers, all for a fraction of the prices of their costs new. Canada, sensing the deal they just couldn't pass up, takes the works. Between 1982 and 1986, Canada takes delivery of 134 CF-18 Hornets, which allows the retirement of the CF-101 and CF-104 aircraft.

The Tomcats fit on Eagle - barely. Canada's Tomcats do three cruises on Eagle in 1981 and 1982 before the first Hornets arrive, allowing the Tomcats to be assigned to air patrol duty.

In celebration of Canada's constitution repatriation of April 1982, in October 1982, the first sailing of the Canada Squadron sails from Halifax, an all-Canadian carrier battle group. Eagle, Province-class missile destroyers (OTL's Kidd-class) Ontario and Alberta, destroyers Huron, Athabaskan and Annapolis and submarines Ojibwa and Okanagan departed Halifax and met up with USS Forrestal for a series of exercises, before steaming to Britain, France and Germany for visits. Canada's 1980s rebuild does in fact help those repsonsible for it, as Canada's level of respect and influence within NATO rises dramatically throughout the 1980s, as does the size and and ease of recruiting within the Canadian Forces. Support for Canada's military among Canadians also rises in the 1980s, sensing that Canada could indeed holds its own on just about any stage. A milestone is reached when Brian Mulroney seeks - and gets - former PC leader Robert Stanfield to be chosen as NATO's Secretary General in 1988, the first time the post had been given to a non-European.

In 1982, Canada joins the United States in offering to help Britain through the back door if Britain needs help beating Argentina during the Falklands War. Britain declines, but the Canadian Forces grows in terms of public visibility and range throughout the 1980s.

In 1986, the Snowbirds finally retire the CT-114s in favor of the CF-116 Freedom Fighters, and also give a number of high-profile shows abroad, including for the first time appearing at the International Air Tattoo that same year.

Riding the support, Canada's Navy announces another major upgrade in 1987, this time to repalce the Oberon class submarines with six modern nuclear submarines. The plan was amibitious, even for Mulroney, but the Canadian support for the now powerful Forces proves to be enough for Mulroney to get the idea across. In 1987, Canada and the UK begin negotiations over the submarines, only to have the US block the sale over American involvement in the design. General Dynamics instead offers Canada the Los Angeles class nuclear submarine, which the Canadians, to the happiness of the French, veto out of hand. Canada's Minister of National Defense at the time, Perrin Beatty, indignantly tells the US "You make it impossible for us to buy our first choice of submarines from the UK, and then try to sell us one of your own? It's more than a little indignant, is it not?"

With the memories of the problems of the LRPA and Eagle acquisitions still fairly recent, the French Rubis class becomes the only option. The French are quite co-operative, however. HMCS Victoria, the first of Canada's Rubis-class Submarine, is commissioned in 1990, in time to deploy as part of Canada Squadron again.

When Saddam Hussein's Iraqi forces invaded the small nation of Kuwait in 1990, the world responded with anger and a resolve to shove the Iraqis out. Canada sent the Canada Squadron out again, though this time HMCS Victoria went out with the squadron instead of the aging Oberon class submarines, and Eagle left the ASW aircraft at home, allowing her to go out with 24 CF-18 Hornets, 18 CF-75 Corsair IIs and a handful of CH-124 Sea King helicopters. The Air Force also came, bringing a squadron of CF-18s themselves. Canada's Hornets and Corsair IIs flew 267 sorties during Desert Storm with one loss, a CF-75 hit by 57mm flak fire over Basra.

The Navy in the 1990s inducts many new vessels - the 12 Halifax-class patrol frigates being the chief among them. The patrol frigates allow the retirement of the St Laurent, Restigouche, Mackenzie and Annapolis class destroyers and destroyer escorts, dramatically reducing the Navy's personnel costs. The 12 Halifax class frigates were considered among the world's best. The Iroquois class destroyers, with their ASW work taken over by the Halifax class, gain the electronics from the American Spruance class destroyers, two 3-inch guns and two sets of 29-cell Mk-41 Vertical Launch Systems, with SM-2 missiles. They are all refitted between 1992 and 1997.

All of the nuclear subs are commissioned between 1990 and 1998, the last of five (the sixth is not built), HMCS Edmonton, being commissioned in May 1998. The Halifax class patrol frigates first arrive in 1992 and the last is commissioned in 1996, completing what is one of the world's most modern Navies.

 

[Jukra]

Ive looked at this a few times and found a few assorted problems.

A new carrier costs a pile of $$$ to build, an old carrier requires a pile of $$$ to operate. Hence, the problem of funding comes up either way.

I would say the best bet is to have the new carrier to replace Bonaventure arrive in the mid to late 1960s. Best way to do that is to somehow keep a Conservative government, or perhaps a more moderate Liberal one. Uniting the forces could actually help - the Navy fell to pieces afterwards, and it could easily be said that a crisis somewhere could convince Canada to keep a carrier capability, just so they can throw some weight around in international affairs. (It woulda been useful in Cyprus, for example.

If Canada was to commission a carrier(s) (there's no sense buying one) whose task would be to support peacekeeping etc. limited war tasks in peacetime, and perhaps operations on NATO's Northern Flank as NATO task, what kind of air wing would be optimal for 1960's? If the focus was rather on intervention support than actual fleet air defense and long range strike, wouldn't air wing consisting of Buccaneers and F-4's be much over the top?

I'd think an air wing consisting of F-8's and A-4's would be best choice. These aircraft (particularly) had long range and were fairly cheap. F-8 was a very good day fighter. The relatively small size of F-8 and A-4 would also permit housing more support aircraft on board. Knowing what we know now, both aircraft could be updated and kept in good operating condition until Hornets arrive.

As for carrier itself, why on earth buy a low-grade Second World War British carrier in the 1960's when it's clear they will be real hogs to operate? Refits and maintenance would cost a fortune.

How about purchase of three Clemencau-class derivatives from France? 1400 complement versus 2800 of HMS Eagle, still the ability to operate most types of carrier aircraft, the rest being out of reach for Canadian Forces. This would allow two carriers available for intervention duties at any time, one configured for air defense / air support, other for ASW (in NATO tasks) or as a commando carrier, in which role the carrier required about 1000 crew. Thus, the crew requirement to man two carriers is still lower than that of HMS Eagle. Besides, I'd think that due to efficiency developments (which were significant in late 1950's to 1960's) the crew size could be further lowered from French numbers.

How to pay it? Eliminate the No 1 Air Division, restructure the mission of Canadian Land Forces from providing mechanized forces for Germany to a light / medium force based in Canada.

 

[Riain]

The Clems were good ships but light, IIRC their decks, lifts and cats were only good for 35,000lb or so. This means that once the late 50s F8 and A4 run out of life there is nothing with any performance to replace them unless the Jaguar M gets built since the Hornet is too heavy. Maybe if the Canadians have a Clem the Jag M will get built.

 

[Jukra]

The Clems were good ships but light, IIRC their decks, lifts and cats were only good for 35,000lb or so. This means that once the late 50s F8 and A4 run out of life there is nothing with any performance to replace them unless the Jaguar M gets built since the Hornet is too heavy. Maybe if the Canadians have a Clem the Jag M will get built.

Clems had British BS-5 catapult, same as with HMS Eagle, good for 50 000 lbs. In fact Aeronavale considered a Hornet purchase until the pork issues came in.

 

[Fellatio Nelson]

Canada's primary NATO role was Atlantic ASW - building upon WW2 experience/disposition - operating against an (almost) purely submarine threat, given the USN would be shadowing any major Soviet surface threat, so I'd assume any realistically affordable carrier would've been merely a helicopter carrying unit.

The main concern is manning: Canada was pretty much wracked by these problems so any government would soon realise that one (aging) unit taking manpower equivalent to manning 5+ ASW frigates, in addition to scant funding, was not worth retaining. And, of course, if you've only got the one aging carrier patrolling the boisterous N Atlantic, it's going to spend a lot of time in maintenance.

Unless Canada really ramped up its defence spending during this period I can't see any carrier either being viable or necessary. Perhaps something along the lines of the Jean d'Arc or one of those Eyetie helo carriers is more likely.

 

[Riain]

What about the lifts, deck and wires?

 

[FlyingDutchman]

Shortly thereafter, Canada made an offer to Iran to buy Iran's fleet of 79 F-14A Tomcat fighters for a big discount, offering to buy the lot for $1.1 Billion. As Iran's economy floundered in the post-Shah chaos, the Iranians accepted. All of the Tomcats were moved in 1980, and the US gave the one Tomcat not delivered to Iran.

Eager to keep the Canucks happy and to help Canada's reworking its military to keep up with NATO problems, most of Iran's gear that hadn't been delivered goes right to Canada, including a supply of AIM-54 Phoenix missiles for the Tomcats and the Shah's four new air-warfare destroyers, all for a fraction of the prices of their costs new. Canada, sensing the deal they just couldn't pass up, takes the works. Between 1982 and 1986, Canada takes delivery of 134 CF-18 Hornets, which allows the retirement of the CF-101 and CF-104 aircraft.

The Tomcats fit on Eagle - barely. Canada's Tomcats do three cruises on Eagle in 1981 and 1982 before the first Hornets arrive, allowing the Tomcats to be assigned to air patrol duty.

In celebration of Canada's constitution repatriation of April 1982, in October 1982, the first sailing of the Canada Squadron sails from Halifax, an all-Canadian carrier battle group. Eagle, Province-class missile destroyers (OTL's Kidd-class) Ontario and Alberta, destroyers Huron, Athabaskan and Annapolis and submarines Ojibwa and Okanagan departed Halifax and met up with USS Forrestal for a series of exercises, before steaming to Britain, France and Germany for visits. Canada's 1980s rebuild does in fact help those repsonsible for it, as Canada's level of respect and influence within NATO rises dramatically throughout the 1980s, as does the size and and ease of recruiting within the Canadian Forces. Support for Canada's military among Canadians also rises in the 1980s, sensing that Canada could indeed holds its own on just about any stage. A milestone is reached when Brian Mulroney seeks - and gets - former PC leader Robert Stanfield to be chosen as NATO's Secretary General in 1988, the first time the post had been given to a non-European.

In 1982, Canada joins the United States in offering to help Britain through the back door if Britain needs help beating Argentina during the Falklands War. Britain declines, but the Canadian Forces grows in terms of public visibility and range throughout the 1980s.

In 1986, the Snowbirds finally retire the CT-114s in favor of the CF-116 Freedom Fighters, and also give a number of high-profile shows abroad, including for the first time appearing at the International Air Tattoo that same year.

Riding the support, Canada's Navy announces another major upgrade in 1987, this time to repalce the Oberon class submarines with six modern nuclear submarines. The plan was amibitious, even for Mulroney, but the Canadian support for the now powerful Forces proves to be enough for Mulroney to get the idea across. In 1987, Canada and the UK begin negotiations over the submarines, only to have the US block the sale over American involvement in the design. General Dynamics instead offers Canada the Los Angeles class nuclear submarine, which the Canadians, to the happiness of the French, veto out of hand. Canada's Minister of National Defense at the time, Perrin Beatty, indignantly tells the US "You make it impossible for us to buy our first choice of submarines from the UK, and then try to sell us one of your own? It's more than a little indignant, is it not?"

With the memories of the problems of the LRPA and Eagle acquisitions still fairly recent, the French Rubis class becomes the only option. The French are quite co-operative, however. HMCS Victoria, the first of Canada's Rubis-class Submarine, is commissioned in 1990, in time to deploy as part of Canada Squadron again.

When Saddam Hussein's Iraqi forces invaded the small nation of Kuwait in 1990, the world responded with anger and a resolve to shove the Iraqis out. Canada sent the Canada Squadron out again, though this time HMCS Victoria went out with the squadron instead of the aging Oberon class submarines, and Eagle left the ASW aircraft at home, allowing her to go out with 24 CF-18 Hornets, 18 CF-75 Corsair IIs and a handful of CH-124 Sea King helicopters. The Air Force also came, bringing a squadron of CF-18s themselves. Canada's Hornets and Corsair IIs flew 267 sorties during Desert Storm with one loss, a CF-75 hit by 57mm flak fire over Basra.

The Navy in the 1990s inducts many new vessels - the 12 Halifax-class patrol frigates being the chief among them. The patrol frigates allow the retirement of the St Laurent, Restigouche, Mackenzie and Annapolis class destroyers and destroyer escorts, dramatically reducing the Navy's personnel costs. The 12 Halifax class frigates were considered among the world's best. The Iroquois class destroyers, with their ASW work taken over by the Halifax class, gain the electronics from the American Spruance class destroyers, two 3-inch guns and two sets of 29-cell Mk-41 Vertical Launch Systems, with SM-2 missiles. They are all refitted between 1992 and 1997.

All of the nuclear subs are commissioned between 1990 and 1998, the last of five (the sixth is not built), HMCS Edmonton, being commissioned in May 1998. The Halifax class patrol frigates first arrive in 1992 and the last is commissioned in 1996, completing what is one of the world's most modern Navies.

A carrier and nuclear subs?

It's a wonderful scenario you're describing but it's not really realistic IMHO. Most problems I have with Canada buying 80 dedicated bomber-intercepting aircraft with likewise missiles. No matter how much the Americans relatively subsidize everything, the Tomcat and the Phoenix (the famous 1 mln USD-missile) are very, very expensive items.

 

[Jukra]

What about the lifts, deck and wires?

As I said, Aeronavale would have liked Hornets unless the Rafale pork was an issue. F/A-18's were demonstrated onboard Foch.

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1988/1988%20-%200335.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F/A-18_Hornet

http://www.naval.com.br/blog/?p=302

(google translation)

When the French Navy was facing the problem of replacing their old interceptors F-8E Crusader, because of delayed arrival of the Rafale M jet, it was considered the purchase or lease of McDonnell-Douglas F/A-18 Hornet, to equipping aircraft carrier Foch (now St. Paul) and Clemenceau.

In 1989, the French vice-admiral Goupil, chief of staff, said that "only the F/A-18 could, since 1993, giving our carrier aviation strong defense capabilities, which now decreases every day."

A delegation from Northrop went to Paris in 1988, offering 40 F-18 (FN) for the Marine Nationale. Experts and engineers from Northrop, visit the PA Foch, concluded that only a few modifications need to be made to operate the F/A-18, notably the catapult and jet deflectors. Lifts and equipment failure were considered compatible with the Hornet.

Compatibility Test were programmed with two F/A-18 Hornets from the VI Fleet aboard the Foch (R99) in August 1989, but the ship had to be docked, interrupting the process. When Foch returned to operation, the French government canceled the program, preferring to prolong the life of the F-8E, by upgrading to the standard F-8P (extended) to the service entrance of the Rafale.

The interesting aspect of this story for the Navy of Brazil, is that the F/A-18 Hornet was one option being seriously considered to equip the São Paulo Carrier if the modernization of AF-1 Skyhawk is dropped. And the changes necessary to operate the aircraft have already been made when the ship was used for the tests with the Rafale M, ie, the modification of baffles and catapults that can launch planes fitted with rings on the landing gear, which is the case of the F/A-18.

Edit: Considering that information, my Finnish Air Force 2009 wank would involve selling half of the FAF's F-18's to Brazil and using the money from the deal and money saved to actually train enough pilots for the rest of the planes and to purchase some AEW capabilities. But that's a different story altogether.

 

[chris N]

Actually Canada did consider building either a nuclear sububmarine fleet or a hybrid submarine fleet. Its something that made the news here in the submarine capital of the world. The Brits however offered to sell the Canadians their last fleet of convention powered submarine realcheap and the Canadian Government jumped at the idea.

 

[MacCaulay]

The Melbourne had a crew of about 1300 including about 300 'birdies' of the airwing, so 1200 in the Bon including the airwing sounds right.

From time to time it is suggested that a country like Australia or Canada could replace their too-small and worn-out Majestic with an Essex or HMS Eage/Ark Royal. A Vietnam era Essex had an airwing of 2 Crusader sqns, 3 Skyhawk sqns (replaced by 2 Corsair sqns) and assorted cats and dogs like S2, E1 and helicopters. Similarly HMS Eagle and Ark Royal carried 14-16 Buccaneers and 12-16 Sea Vixen/Phantoms and cats and dogs like Gannet AEW and helicopters.

Another thing to remember is that the design of the Crusader (and it's sibling aircraft, the Corsair II) was still being used into 1991 even by the USAF.
The Greeks were using the Corsair II past the turn of the 21st Century. So I think that if somehow the Canadian navy could keep a carrier in service and stage Crusaders off it, then they'd still be able to use it up to 2000. And once September 11th happens, they'll be able to keep that carrier for at least another 20 years.

 

[Riain]

My point isn't that Canada couldn't keep the Crusader in service, if Canada had Crusaders they'd undoubtably team up with the French and conduct some interesting upgrades. The Crusader is one of the earliest fighter designs that is capable of long term service due to it's basic design and performance. My point is that with an Essex or Eagle/Ark the CAG would be so massive that it would distort the entire force structure of Canada or Australia because a small portion of the Navy would rival the entire airforce of that country. Even a Clem could distort the force structure of Canada, 30-35 jets on board means 50 in service, which is a lot for a country whose airforce would have less than 200 jets at the time. An FAA of that size would come at the expense of airforce aircraft and navy ships, can a country like Canada afford to lose airforce fighters and a surface ship or two so it can have a big FAA?

Jukra, the Sea Harrier was also considered at the time, it's lack of performance being compensated by the fantastic new radar and weapons suite. IIRC the Hornet would operate at lower weights than USN hornets due to the limits of French carriers.

 

[Wolfman]

This is an interesting discussion.

 

[Riain]

Isn't it! The coolness of carriers planes and the intellectual interest of national force structures, I love it.

 

[Wolfman]

Carrier aviation, yes, national force structures, not so much...

 

[DD951]

Another idea that I had was that Canada could go for a small VSTOL carrier in the 70s or 80s, such as an Invincible or a derivative of one of the US SCS proposals, with an airgroup of helicopters for ASW work & Harriers for air defense & light attack. Such a ship would be at least somewhat cheaper & require somewhat less manpower than the other options in this thread, while being in line with Cold War Canadian naval missions.

 

[MacCaulay]

Carrier aviation, yes, national force structures, not so much...

Well, like Riain pointed out, Canada was always in a precarious position regarding it's air wing on the carrier: suppose they had 80 fighters total in the entire military, then it'd be very likely that one out of every four of them would be assigned to the carrier.
In many ways, a 21st century carrier would affect Canada more than Canada would affect a 21st century carrier.

Another idea that I had was that Canada could go for a small VSTOL carrier in the 70s or 80s, such as an Invincible or a derivative of one of the US SCS proposals, with an airgroup of helicopters for ASW work & Harriers for air defense & light attack. Such a ship would be at least somewhat cheaper & require somewhat less manpower than the other options in this thread, while being in line with Cold War Canadian naval missions.

We did roll that around, and for the same reasons you mentioned. Canada's mission in NATO was ASW in the Arctic, Aleutians, and to a lesser extent the GIUK gap and an ASW carrier would be very useful (and probably easier to sell to Parliament).

 

[TheMann]

I must admit that my scenario above is not the most realistic thing in the world. I grant that point. but as Canada's military spending as a % of GDP sank into the mid-1% ballpark in the mid-1990s (and that was still circa $18 billion a year) one realizes that if they had kept the 3.5% or so that was the average between the 1950s and early 1970s) paying for a small to medium-sized CV all of a sudden does not seem like that big of a deal. 3.5% today would give a military budget of $45.6 Billion, which is more than double what Canada spends now. It's also about the same as Germany and Japan.

My scenario has Canada, in the midst of its major refits of the 1970s and 1980s, jump at the stuff that Iran didn't buy. That would be virtually new stuff for pennies on the dollar, something that would be quite a good thing to anybody involved. The nuclear subs would be expensive, but the Rubis class is the smallest SSNs ever made - 2,600 tons, 62 crew. By comparison, the Victoria class SSKs are 2,450 tons and 47 crew. Simply put, the cost of purchasing is much higher but the cost of operation is not all that much higher. No regular fuel bills need to be paid with nuclear subs, don't forget.

Iran couldn't get parts for the F-14s, and when Canada came to buy 'em, the Iranians were willing to sell - the price was being negotiated. I am just assuming that gets done. As the CF here has a lot more money to spend than before, then having 80 F-14s and 135 F/A-18s is not only not out of the question, in number terms its still a substantial decrease in strength from before. The idea about having the A-7s to fly off the carrier is also a good one, its a possibility and again, that would be buying aircraft being retired for peanuts. As for other stuff, Iran bought over $5 Billion worth of gear that was never delivered after the Shah got tossed over. Most of that was made or parts made for it, and simply scrapping at that point is a waste of money - why Iran's destroyers wound up in the USN and its F-16s ended up in IAF. Here, its F-14s and destroyers wound up in thew hands of the Canucks.

My carrier idea is the same. Eagle was headed for the scrapyard, and I'm sure if Canada came to the UK and said "Psst, we'll buy it form you for x amount of dollars (probably far higher than its scrap value) to use it ourselves, is Britain gonna say "no, we'll scrap it anyways"? Absolutely not. And sending it to the economically-depressed Maritimes for a BIG refit, in 1972 when unemployment in the Maritimes was around the 20% ballpark, is gonna be a great big political point-scorer for those involved. I am assuming a Conservative Government through the mid to late 1970s here, though with Trudeau's minority government and the NDP's staunch anti-communist stance of the time, one could see the Conservatives and NDP wedging Trudeau into buy Eagle and having her rebuilt in the Maritimes - both sides justifying it as beating-up-the-commies and the Conservatives justifying it in the name of a strong national defense. The cost of regularly operating it is harder, but the cost of getting it in Canada's hands and rebuilding it is in fact surprisingly easy to justify.

Here's my TL.......

Canadian Power: The Canadian Forces as a Major Power

Part 1

1972 - HMS Eagle decommissioned. After the chaos of the unification and Trudeau's decisions result in mass waves of departures from the Canadian Forces, his minority government faces a Conservative opposition which is badgering for Trudeau to fix this. Eagle is seen by Conservative leader Robert Stanfield to an opportunity for Trudeau to restore some of the luster to the Canadian military. NDP leader David Lewis agrees with Stanfield.

The two leverage Trudeau into making an offer for Eagle. Trudeau makes a ridiculous offer for it, trying to get the opposition. To his surprise, Britain agrees, and Eagle is towed to Canada, arriving at Halifax in December 1972.

1973 - Trudeau decides to use the opportunity to throw the Canadian Force idea back in Stanfield's face, and announces that the mammoth Saint John Shipbuilding yards in Saint John, New Brunswick, will rebuild HMS Eagle, including automatic boiler control, a slightly longer flight deck, AN/SPS-48E radar and a lot of work to allow Eagle, which is already in fairly good condition, to serve as late as the year 2000. The rebuild start on May 24, 1973, at Saint John Shipbuilding.

The Oil Crisis shakes the world in October, and the limitations of Canada's power become immediately and obviously apparent. Trudeau decides that the best option for Canada here is to force the oil supplier provinces of the West to sell to Canada at lower prices. Trudeau's support in the West drops like a stone as a result, and the problematic economic issues, inclduing growing inflation, are enough to cause Trudeau political problems.

1974 - Stanfield and Lewis force a confidence vote on Trudeau, and Trudeau decides to call a snap election, figuring he'll get his majority back. He guesses wrong, and Stanfield wins a majority, gaining particularly in Quebec and suburban Ontario ridings, giving him a very narrow majority - 135 out of 264. His policy of targeting inflation by freezing wages and prices at first produces many grumbles, but it does succeed in slowing inflation, giving Stanfield a stronger hand in domestic affairs.

Eagle's rebuild continues unabated at Saint John. The Canadian Forces leases a number of ex-USN F-4 Phantoms to outfit the carrier, which quickly become the best aircraft in the Canadian Forces, something which is more than a little embarassing to the Forces

1975 - Eagle's rebuild is completed in August 1975, with a flight deck lengthened by 24 feet and with a 12 degree flight deck, modern radars and electronics, computerized propulsion controls and new boilers, three new steam catapults (salvaged from retired Essex-class carriers), much-improved HVAC systems and many other upgrades.

Sure enough, the CF makes requests to have its experienced carrier guys come back to help the Forces get the carrier back in fighting shape. Many respond. HMCS Eagle commissions on November 11, 1975, at CFNB Halifax. The 55,000-ton carrier has a crew of 1,520 and an air wing of 50 aircraft, made up of the leased F-4 Phantom fighters, a trio of E-1 Tracer AEW aircraft and a number of CH-124 Sea King helicopters. Even as Eagle commissions, the CF is badgering Ottawa to buy E-2 Hawkeye AWACS aircraft and new fighters for the land command.

Reversing Trudeau's decisions, in November 1975 the Liberals side with the Conservatives on the military and begin supporting a major overhaul of the Canadian Forces.

1976 - In March, the US approves the sale of eight E-2B carrier AWACS aircraft, though the Americans expect that Canada will also want to use the Hawkeyes as land-based AEW. That year, the New Fighter Aircraft program also begins. The competitors for the NFA were the F-14 Tomcat, F-15 Eagle, F-16 Fighting Falcon, F/A-18 Hornet (though it was not called this at the time), Dassault Mirage F1 and Panavia Tornado. The Mirage F1 was eliminated because it's performance was too low, Dassault replied by proposing the Mirage 2000 instead. The Tornado, F-14 and F-15 were eliminated due to being too expensive, though Grumman, strapped for cash, quickly offered to reduce the price of the F-14 somewhat, it was still too pricey for Canada's wishes.

Eagle leaves for its first deployment on February 17, 1976, along with three destroyers, two frigates, a sub and an escort ship, bound for Cyprus to support the Canadian and British Forces stuck in-between the Turks and Greeks on the island. The island had been invaded by Turkey in 1974, and an October 1975 incident where Turkey accidentally shelled a Canadian position in Cyprus, killing six Canadians and wounding 11, had led to public opinion demanding that the Canadian Forces' new flagship be deployed to the area. The Turks were not impressed by this, of course.

On April 21, 1976, Turkey demanded the removal of all foreign forces from Cyprus at the UN in New York, specifically attacking the Canadians for "interfering with the affairs of Cyprus and insulting Turkey in the process. Prime Minister Stanfield angrily replied that the Turks had killed six Canadians in Cyprus and that the carrier was there to protect the Canadian Forces. Turkey's ambassador, clearly incensed, snapped back "that's our island anyways, you have no right to be there."

Turkey's comment raised a shitstorm. Cyprus demanded additional UN peacekeepers, and Greece angrily told Turkey that any Turkish attempt to take all of the island would see Greek forces garrison the island. The Canadian media was similarly amazed that Turkey had the balls to say that in the UN, at the expected cost of their international support.

US President Gerald Ford at this point stepped into the picture, offering up a plan to integrate Cyprus under its own jurisdiction, while mandating that Nicosia respect the rights of all involved, and offer 1/3 representaton in parliament and a Cypriot Constitution that would not allow discrimination based on ethnicity or religion. Greece agreed, as did both divisions of Cyprus. Turkey, rather than trying to help the settlement, got angrier, including infalming the Turkish population, saying that the UN was trying to take Turkish land and give it to Turkey and saying that if they allowed this, the UN would give Greece Istanbul next.

Sensing a storm brewing, Eagle is deployed for a second time to the area, rapidly refueling and fixing things in Halifax before departing for Cyprus on July 25, 1976. The vessel cleared Gibraltar on August 11 and reached Cyprus on August 20. They joined HMS Ark Royal and USS Saratoga, two other carriers on scene.

On August 25, despite the naval forces there, Turkey began moving troops to the island in big numbers again. The powers involved asked, and got, the Greeks not to respond, but Greece did begin moving forces to Cyprus. The Peacekeeper UN forces became UN armed forces, though they made it clear that if Turkey didn't step over the de facto boundary, there would be no problem. President Ford made it clear that the US did not support Turkey's current position and that the Turks should let it be.

Despite all of this, the Turks didn't listen at all. On September 10, the Turkish Army invaded the southern portion, one of its first acts being sending F-4 Phantom fighter-bombers against UN positions in Nicosia, killing over 60 men including 28 Canadians.

News of that hit Ottawa to an immense roar from the government and the nation. The next day, war was declared in Ottawa, followed simultaneously by Washington, London and Athens. A UN declaration of war followed suit. That day, the Canadian carrier performed its first combat missions, attacking Turkish positions in northern Cyprus. The Turkish Navy tried to remove the allied military forces - but this failed dramatically. The first sinking by Canadian Naval Forces occured on September 18, when HMCS Okanagan sank a Turkish destroyer. The Turks made two attempts to sink Eagle, both ending in abject failures.

Turkey's strong army fairly easily beat down the Greek Cypriot land forces, as they retreated back to the British Naval Bases. Turkey never scratched these - they feared a British nuclear retaliation. But Turkey's Navy, badly beaten up by British, American and Canadian carrier-based air and naval forces, couldn't hope to support their troops on the island. The troops exacted ugly revenge on the Greek Cypriots, killing hundreds of them (though rumors say that number was actually thousands).

A UN force, led by the United States Marine Corps, Royal Marines, Greek Army and Canadian Forces Land Command, showed up on October 21, 1976, to clean up in Cyprus. They quickly routed the larger in number but badly under-supplied Turkish forces. By November, the UN was demanding that the Turks get off the islands altogether. The Turks fought bitterly, but their failure was inevitable. On November 19, the Turkish commander on Cyprus surrendered - symbolically, he surrendered to the Canadian Princess Patricia's Light Infantry, rather than surrender to the British or Americans.

The Canadian victory had proven the worth of the Forces to win in a modern war, and in doing so had dramatically increased the stature of the military in the eyes of Canadians, and ensured that its rebuilding would be much bigger and faster than before.

Cyprus would become home to one of the largest UN peacekeeping groups ever, some 26,000 men. Cyprus was a unified nation again. Greek Cypriots, as disgusted at Turkey as they were, made it clear that they would not retaliate against Turkish Cypriots for Turkey's actions. The plan put forward by President Ford would be implemented through 1977, and the first Cypriot government was formed in April 1978. Turkish Cypriots were allowed to leave if they wished, and while some did most didn't. The festering hatred between the two groups died away over time, though the UN peacekeeping force remains to this day.

Turkey, incensed, ordered US troops out of Turkey. The Cypriots, sensing the opportunity, allowed a much expanded base at Akrotiri, which in the 1980s would grow to be home to American and British bombers, as well as many other forces. Canada and Greece were also allowed to use the base, and both countries would make use of it.

1977 - Coming off the victory in Cyprus, programs to rebuild the Canadian military grew rapidly. The NFA program was given a somewhat larger budget, which put the Panavia Tornado and Grumman F-14 back into the competition. The Soviet Union also offered up the Mikoyan MiG-23, which the Canadians liked as an aircraft but poilitically was not likely to be acceptable. The Tornado and Tomcat however were found to be too specialized for the multiple roles that the Canadian Forces envisioned for them.

The Forces, having narrowed the competition to the F/A-18A Hornet, its denavalized version the F-18L and the F-16 Fighting Falcon.

The forces also began looking for replacements for its aging fleet of naval vessels, which were in particular starting to show their age, despite having performed quite admirably in the Mediterranean.

1978 - Rumors begin to surface about the Canadian Forces selecting the F/A-18 Hornet to do the job of a new high-performance fighter, and also select the P-3 Orion to be its new maritime patrol aircraft. The twin-engined Hornet impresses the Canucks more as they wish to have a twin-engined aircraft which also has carrier-capabilities, say the rumors.

General Dynamics and Pratt and Whitney, not wanting to see the F/A-18 gain the potentially very lucrative contract, offered to have the Pratt and Whitney F100 engines made in Quebec, a massive windfall indeed, and led to the Premier of Quebec publicly wanting the F-16 to be the winner of the NFA program, because it provided more benefits for Quebec.

This, however, backfired in GD and P&W's faces when Levesque's plans for a referendum on Quebec independence began turning up in Quebec newspapers in 1979. Knowing of this backfire and wanting to make up ground, the companies offered to not only build the F-16s in Canada, but also allow Canadair to have a license to produce them on their own. Northrop and General Electric fired back with a similar offer, allowing the Canadian government the ability to make future aircraft entirely in Canada, with just license fees and expertise deals being paid to the Americans. President Carter supported this idea - he was wanting to limit the sales of front-line US gear to prevent it from falling into Soviet hands, but Canada was about as likely to go communist as the United States was.

While the companies battled, the Maritime Command did its own studies. Their studies found that the F/A-18 would work on Eagle, but it was somewhat large to do the job and would make space kinda limited aboard the carrier, and they began to look for an attack aircraft to complement the Hornet. They also found that two-seat aircraft were better for close-in attack roles, something the US knew through its experience with its A-6 and F-111 attack aircraft.

1979 - Stanfield was forced to call an election, and while some were expecting a minority government, Stanfield kept his narrow majority. The Liberals and NDP swapped seat between then, the NDP rising to 35 seats from 16. The Liberals gained eight from the collapsing Social Credit party, which was sinking fast and had almost nothing with which to save itself. Stanfield kept 147 seats of the 282 up for grabs.

The NFA program reached its conclusion thanks, indirectly to the Maritime Command. They announced that while the F/A-18 was a great fighter for its purposes, they wanted an attack aircraft. Rumors about the forces asking discreet questions about the A-7 Corsair II began circling.

General Dynamics, realizing this, went to LTV and asked about buying the rights to make the A-7 for the USN and Canadians. LTV said that the company, losing money, could simply buy the company's aircraft divisions. With orders for the F-16 rolling in, the extra capacity was a good idea in the eyes of General Dynamics, and they bought LTV's aircraft division on April 20, 1979. The next day, they offered to end their objections if the Navy bought the A-7 Corsair II for the Navy.

On May 25, 1979, the NFA program was ended, and the Canadian Forces announced a $3.1 Billion program. On order were 138 F/A-18 Hornets, including 40 two-seat Hornets, and 54 A-7E Corsair II attack aircraft, all of them two-seaters.

But a back-door situation just about derailed the whole process. On April 1, 1979, Iran became an "Islamic Republic", to the chargin of the United States. President Carter's at first cordial relations with the new government went downhill fast, after the new government demanded the United States return the former leader, Shah Reza Pahlavi, for trial. As negotiations over this continued, militant students broke into the American Embassy in Tehran and took some 52 people hostage.

Overnight, some $5 Billion in Iranian purchases could not be delivered, including over 150 fighter jets and numerous warships, tanks and other military gear. For Canada and its plans, it was a bonanza.

On September 15, 1979, the Canadian Forces made a proposal to the Iranian government for Canada to purchase its fleet of 79 F-14A Tomcats. This broke in the Canadian media two days later, to the shock and disgust of Northrop Grumman, which had banked on the F/A-18 Hornet deal.

Having been recently re-elected and knowing that they didn't want to be sued for breach of contract, the DND made the decision that if the government could afford it, they would field all three aircraft. Stanfield decided to gamble the total.

On September 27, 1979, the Canadian Forces announced that the F-14s would be in addition to the NFA program, and that the aircraft would be used to replace the CF-101 Voodoo in the interceptor role. A few pointed out that the Tomcat would be doing what had been envisioned for the Avro Arrow, though the National Post sent a reporter to ask Grumman about how good the F-14 was. That reporter was invited to a test flight by Grumman of a Tomcat, to which he was amazed.

Iran, knowing that it could not get parts for its fleet of sophisticated American-made aircraft and that fixing the Tomcats was far beyond them, were happy to sell. On January 27, 1980, the Iranian government agreed to sell its 79 F-14A fighters to Canada for $1.3 Billion. Canada's deposit went quickly, and all of the fighters were flown to Canada between February and August 1980.

As soon as news of the sale of the Tomcats was on, the United States offered to also sell Canada the stock of AIM-54 Phoenix missiles that Iran didn't take delivery of, which Canada again took advantage of. Armed as such, the first reformed Canadian Forces CF-184 (the designation for the Tomcat) squadron activated on April 25, 1981.

The first CF-188 (F/A-18 Hornet) aircraft were delivered to Canada in December 1982, with the last one delivered in January 1988. The first unit to get the Hornet was HMCS Eagle, which wanted to retire and return the F-4s leased from the United States. The refit to allow Eagle to carry the Hornets was done from February-October 1983, and the carrier reactivated with its new air wing on January 10, 1984.

The CF-187 saw its first delivery to CFB Halifax on November 15, 1980, with the order completed in June 1982. All 54 aircraft were assigned to squadrons of the Maritime Command's Fleet Air Arm. They replaced several of the F-4 Phantoms on Eagle during its 1981 and 1982 deployments, before the Hornets finally allowed the Phantom's retirement in January 1984.

 

[Russell]

I don't really mow about this one. Maybe I can see a situation where the government at the time decides that the maintainence of a carrier as part of NATO to help patrol the north sea is vital for defence. Maybe the government goes into a joint development scheme with Britain on the Invincible Class carriers and ends up aquiring one herself. Maybe a squadron of 12 Harriers and up to 8 helicopters. A ship of that size and capability of strike, ASW, transport and amphibious operationswould probably be ideal for Canada.


HMCS Kingsmill returns to her berth in CFB Halifax after another Successful ASW Patrol against Soviet Submarines in the North Atlantic in conjunction with her sister ships HMS Invincible and HMS Ark Royal, May 1998.

 

[Wolfman]

I must admit that my scenario above is not the most realistic thing in the world. I grant that point. but as Canada's military spending as a % of GDP sank into the mid-1% ballpark in the mid-1990s (and that was still circa $18 billion a year) one realizes that if they had kept the 3.5% or so that was the average between the 1950s and early 1970s) paying for a small to medium-sized CV all of a sudden does not seem like that big of a deal. 3.5% today would give a military budget of $45.6 Billion, which is more than double what Canada spends now. It's also about the same as Germany and Japan.

My scenario has Canada, in the midst of its major refits of the 1970s and 1980s, jump at the stuff that Iran didn't buy. That would be virtually new stuff for pennies on the dollar, something that would be quite a good thing to anybody involved. The nuclear subs would be expensive, but the Rubis class is the smallest SSNs ever made - 2,600 tons, 62 crew. By comparison, the Victoria class SSKs are 2,450 tons and 47 crew. Simply put, the cost of purchasing is much higher but the cost of operation is not all that much higher. No regular fuel bills need to be paid with nuclear subs, don't forget.

Iran couldn't get parts for the F-14s, and when Canada came to buy 'em, the Iranians were willing to sell - the price was being negotiated. I am just assuming that gets done. As the CF here has a lot more money to spend than before, then having 80 F-14s and 135 F/A-18s is not only not out of the question, in number terms its still a substantial decrease in strength from before. The idea about having the A-7s to fly off the carrier is also a good one, its a possibility and again, that would be buying aircraft being retired for peanuts. As for other stuff, Iran bought over $5 Billion worth of gear that was never delivered after the Shah got tossed over. Most of that was made or parts made for it, and simply scrapping at that point is a waste of money - why Iran's destroyers wound up in the USN and its F-16s ended up in IAF. Here, its F-14s and destroyers wound up in thew hands of the Canucks.

My carrier idea is the same. Eagle was headed for the scrapyard, and I'm sure if Canada came to the UK and said "Psst, we'll buy it form you for x amount of dollars (probably far higher than its scrap value) to use it ourselves, is Britain gonna say "no, we'll scrap it anyways"? Absolutely not. And sending it to the economically-depressed Maritimes for a BIG refit, in 1972 when unemployment in the Maritimes was around the 20% ballpark, is gonna be a great big political point-scorer for those involved. I am assuming a Conservative Government through the mid to late 1970s here, though with Trudeau's minority government and the NDP's staunch anti-communist stance of the time, one could see the Conservatives and NDP wedging Trudeau into buy Eagle and having her rebuilt in the Maritimes - both sides justifying it as beating-up-the-commies and the Conservatives justifying it in the name of a strong national defense. The cost of regularly operating it is harder, but the cost of getting it in Canada's hands and rebuilding it is in fact surprisingly easy to justify.

Here's my TL.......

Canadian Power: The Canadian Forces as a Major Power

Part 1

1972 - HMS Eagle decommissioned. After the chaos of the unification and Trudeau's decisions result in mass waves of departures from the Canadian Forces, his minority government faces a Conservative opposition which is badgering for Trudeau to fix this. Eagle is seen by Conservative leader Robert Stanfield to an opportunity for Trudeau to restore some of the luster to the Canadian military. NDP leader David Lewis agrees with Stanfield.

The two leverage Trudeau into making an offer for Eagle. Trudeau makes a ridiculous offer for it, trying to get the opposition. To his surprise, Britain agrees, and Eagle is towed to Canada, arriving at Halifax in December 1972.

1973 - Trudeau decides to use the opportunity to throw the Canadian Force idea back in Stanfield's face, and announces that the mammoth Saint John Shipbuilding yards in Saint John, New Brunswick, will rebuild HMS Eagle, including automatic boiler control, a slightly longer flight deck, AN/SPS-48E radar and a lot of work to allow Eagle, which is already in fairly good condition, to serve as late as the year 2000. The rebuild start on May 24, 1973, at Saint John Shipbuilding.

The Oil Crisis shakes the world in October, and the limitations of Canada's power become immediately and obviously apparent. Trudeau decides that the best option for Canada here is to force the oil supplier provinces of the West to sell to Canada at lower prices. Trudeau's support in the West drops like a stone as a result, and the problematic economic issues, inclduing growing inflation, are enough to cause Trudeau political problems.

1974 - Stanfield and Lewis force a confidence vote on Trudeau, and Trudeau decides to call a snap election, figuring he'll get his majority back. He guesses wrong, and Stanfield wins a majority, gaining particularly in Quebec and suburban Ontario ridings, giving him a very narrow majority - 135 out of 264. His policy of targeting inflation by freezing wages and prices at first produces many grumbles, but it does succeed in slowing inflation, giving Stanfield a stronger hand in domestic affairs.

Eagle's rebuild continues unabated at Saint John. The Canadian Forces leases a number of ex-USN F-4 Phantoms to outfit the carrier, which quickly become the best aircraft in the Canadian Forces, something which is more than a little embarassing to the Forces

1975 - Eagle's rebuild is completed in August 1975, with a flight deck lengthened by 24 feet and with a 12 degree flight deck, modern radars and electronics, computerized propulsion controls and new boilers, three new steam catapults (salvaged from retired Essex-class carriers), much-improved HVAC systems and many other upgrades.

Sure enough, the CF makes requests to have its experienced carrier guys come back to help the Forces get the carrier back in fighting shape. Many respond. HMCS Eagle commissions on November 11, 1975, at CFNB Halifax. The 55,000-ton carrier has a crew of 1,520 and an air wing of 50 aircraft, made up of the leased F-4 Phantom fighters, a trio of E-1 Tracer AEW aircraft and a number of CH-124 Sea King helicopters. Even as Eagle commissions, the CF is badgering Ottawa to buy E-2 Hawkeye AWACS aircraft and new fighters for the land command.

Reversing Trudeau's decisions, in November 1975 the Liberals side with the Conservatives on the military and begin supporting a major overhaul of the Canadian Forces.

1976 - In March, the US approves the sale of eight E-2B carrier AWACS aircraft, though the Americans expect that Canada will also want to use the Hawkeyes as land-based AEW. That year, the New Fighter Aircraft program also begins. The competitors for the NFA were the F-14 Tomcat, F-15 Eagle, F-16 Fighting Falcon, F/A-18 Hornet (though it was not called this at the time), Dassault Mirage F1 and Panavia Tornado. The Mirage F1 was eliminated because it's performance was too low, Dassault replied by proposing the Mirage 2000 instead. The Tornado, F-14 and F-15 were eliminated due to being too expensive, though Grumman, strapped for cash, quickly offered to reduce the price of the F-14 somewhat, it was still too pricey for Canada's wishes.

Eagle leaves for its first deployment on February 17, 1976, along with three destroyers, two frigates, a sub and an escort ship, bound for Cyprus to support the Canadian and British Forces stuck in-between the Turks and Greeks on the island. The island had been invaded by Turkey in 1974, and an October 1975 incident where Turkey accidentally shelled a Canadian position in Cyprus, killing six Canadians and wounding 11, had led to public opinion demanding that the Canadian Forces' new flagship be deployed to the area. The Turks were not impressed by this, of course.

On April 21, 1976, Turkey demanded the removal of all foreign forces from Cyprus at the UN in New York, specifically attacking the Canadians for "interfering with the affairs of Cyprus and insulting Turkey in the process. Prime Minister Stanfield angrily replied that the Turks had killed six Canadians in Cyprus and that the carrier was there to protect the Canadian Forces. Turkey's ambassador, clearly incensed, snapped back "that's our island anyways, you have no right to be there."

Turkey's comment raised a shitstorm. Cyprus demanded additional UN peacekeepers, and Greece angrily told Turkey that any Turkish attempt to take all of the island would see Greek forces garrison the island. The Canadian media was similarly amazed that Turkey had the balls to say that in the UN, at the expected cost of their international support.

US President Gerald Ford at this point stepped into the picture, offering up a plan to integrate Cyprus under its own jurisdiction, while mandating that Nicosia respect the rights of all involved, and offer 1/3 representaton in parliament and a Cypriot Constitution that would not allow discrimination based on ethnicity or religion. Greece agreed, as did both divisions of Cyprus. Turkey, rather than trying to help the settlement, got angrier, including infalming the Turkish population, saying that the UN was trying to take Turkish land and give it to Turkey and saying that if they allowed this, the UN would give Greece Istanbul next.

Sensing a storm brewing, Eagle is deployed for a second time to the area, rapidly refueling and fixing things in Halifax before departing for Cyprus on July 25, 1976. The vessel cleared Gibraltar on August 11 and reached Cyprus on August 20. They joined HMS Ark Royal and USS Saratoga, two other carriers on scene.

On August 25, despite the naval forces there, Turkey began moving troops to the island in big numbers again. The powers involved asked, and got, the Greeks not to respond, but Greece did begin moving forces to Cyprus. The Peacekeeper UN forces became UN armed forces, though they made it clear that if Turkey didn't step over the de facto boundary, there would be no problem. President Ford made it clear that the US did not support Turkey's current position and that the Turks should let it be.

Despite all of this, the Turks didn't listen at all. On September 10, the Turkish Army invaded the southern portion, one of its first acts being sending F-4 Phantom fighter-bombers against UN positions in Nicosia, killing over 60 men including 28 Canadians.

News of that hit Ottawa to an immense roar from the government and the nation. The next day, war was declared in Ottawa, followed simultaneously by Washington, London and Athens. A UN declaration of war followed suit. That day, the Canadian carrier performed its first combat missions, attacking Turkish positions in northern Cyprus. The Turkish Navy tried to remove the allied military forces - but this failed dramatically. The first sinking by Canadian Naval Forces occured on September 18, when HMCS Okanagan sank a Turkish destroyer. The Turks made two attempts to sink Eagle, both ending in abject failures.

Turkey's strong army fairly easily beat down the Greek Cypriot land forces, as they retreated back to the British Naval Bases. Turkey never scratched these - they feared a British nuclear retaliation. But Turkey's Navy, badly beaten up by British, American and Canadian carrier-based air and naval forces, couldn't hope to support their troops on the island. The troops exacted ugly revenge on the Greek Cypriots, killing hundreds of them (though rumors say that number was actually thousands).

A UN force, led by the United States Marine Corps, Royal Marines, Greek Army and Canadian Forces Land Command, showed up on October 21, 1976, to clean up in Cyprus. They quickly routed the larger in number but badly under-supplied Turkish forces. By November, the UN was demanding that the Turks get off the islands altogether. The Turks fought bitterly, but their failure was inevitable. On November 19, the Turkish commander on Cyprus surrendered - symbolically, he surrendered to the Canadian Princess Patricia's Light Infantry, rather than surrender to the British or Americans.

The Canadian victory had proven the worth of the Forces to win in a modern war, and in doing so had dramatically increased the stature of the military in the eyes of Canadians, and ensured that its rebuilding would be much bigger and faster than before.

Cyprus would become home to one of the largest UN peacekeeping groups ever, some 26,000 men. Cyprus was a unified nation again. Greek Cypriots, as disgusted at Turkey as they were, made it clear that they would not retaliate against Turkish Cypriots for Turkey's actions. The plan put forward by President Ford would be implemented through 1977, and the first Cypriot government was formed in April 1978. Turkish Cypriots were allowed to leave if they wished, and while some did most didn't. The festering hatred between the two groups died away over time, though the UN peacekeeping force remains to this day.

Turkey, incensed, ordered US troops out of Turkey. The Cypriots, sensing the opportunity, allowed a much expanded base at Akrotiri, which in the 1980s would grow to be home to American and British bombers, as well as many other forces. Canada and Greece were also allowed to use the base, and both countries would make use of it.

1977 - Coming off the victory in Cyprus, programs to rebuild the Canadian military grew rapidly. The NFA program was given a somewhat larger budget, which put the Panavia Tornado and Grumman F-14 back into the competition. The Soviet Union also offered up the Mikoyan MiG-23, which the Canadians liked as an aircraft but poilitically was not likely to be acceptable. The Tornado and Tomcat however were found to be too specialized for the multiple roles that the Canadian Forces envisioned for them.

The Forces, having narrowed the competition to the F/A-18A Hornet, its denavalized version the F-18L and the F-16 Fighting Falcon.

The forces also began looking for replacements for its aging fleet of naval vessels, which were in particular starting to show their age, despite having performed quite admirably in the Mediterranean.

1978 - Rumors begin to surface about the Canadian Forces selecting the F/A-18 Hornet to do the job of a new high-performance fighter, and also select the P-3 Orion to be its new maritime patrol aircraft. The twin-engined Hornet impresses the Canucks more as they wish to have a twin-engined aircraft which also has carrier-capabilities, say the rumors.

General Dynamics and Pratt and Whitney, not wanting to see the F/A-18 gain the potentially very lucrative contract, offered to have the Pratt and Whitney F100 engines made in Quebec, a massive windfall indeed, and led to the Premier of Quebec publicly wanting the F-16 to be the winner of the NFA program, because it provided more benefits for Quebec.

This, however, backfired in GD and P&W's faces when Levesque's plans for a referendum on Quebec independence began turning up in Quebec newspapers in 1979. Knowing of this backfire and wanting to make up ground, the companies offered to not only build the F-16s in Canada, but also allow Canadair to have a license to produce them on their own. Northrop and General Electric fired back with a similar offer, allowing the Canadian government the ability to make future aircraft entirely in Canada, with just license fees and expertise deals being paid to the Americans. President Carter supported this idea - he was wanting to limit the sales of front-line US gear to prevent it from falling into Soviet hands, but Canada was about as likely to go communist as the United States was.

While the companies battled, the Maritime Command did its own studies. Their studies found that the F/A-18 would work on Eagle, but it was somewhat large to do the job and would make space kinda limited aboard the carrier, and they began to look for an attack aircraft to complement the Hornet. They also found that two-seat aircraft were better for close-in attack roles, something the US knew through its experience with its A-6 and F-111 attack aircraft.

1979 - Stanfield was forced to call an election, and while some were expecting a minority government, Stanfield kept his narrow majority. The Liberals and NDP swapped seat between then, the NDP rising to 35 seats from 16. The Liberals gained eight from the collapsing Social Credit party, which was sinking fast and had almost nothing with which to save itself. Stanfield kept 147 seats of the 282 up for grabs.

The NFA program reached its conclusion thanks, indirectly to the Maritime Command. They announced that while the F/A-18 was a great fighter for its purposes, they wanted an attack aircraft. Rumors about the forces asking discreet questions about the A-7 Corsair II began circling.

General Dynamics, realizing this, went to LTV and asked about buying the rights to make the A-7 for the USN and Canadians. LTV said that the company, losing money, could simply buy the company's aircraft divisions. With orders for the F-16 rolling in, the extra capacity was a good idea in the eyes of General Dynamics, and they bought LTV's aircraft division on April 20, 1979. The next day, they offered to end their objections if the Navy bought the A-7 Corsair II for the Navy.

On May 25, 1979, the NFA program was ended, and the Canadian Forces announced a $3.1 Billion program. On order were 138 F/A-18 Hornets, including 40 two-seat Hornets, and 54 A-7E Corsair II attack aircraft, all of them two-seaters.

But a back-door situation just about derailed the whole process. On April 1, 1979, Iran became an "Islamic Republic", to the chargin of the United States. President Carter's at first cordial relations with the new government went downhill fast, after the new government demanded the United States return the former leader, Shah Reza Pahlavi, for trial. As negotiations over this continued, militant students broke into the American Embassy in Tehran and took some 52 people hostage.

Overnight, some $5 Billion in Iranian purchases could not be delivered, including over 150 fighter jets and numerous warships, tanks and other military gear. For Canada and its plans, it was a bonanza.

On September 15, 1979, the Canadian Forces made a proposal to the Iranian government for Canada to purchase its fleet of 79 F-14A Tomcats. This broke in the Canadian media two days later, to the shock and disgust of Northrop Grumman, which had banked on the F/A-18 Hornet deal.

Having been recently re-elected and knowing that they didn't want to be sued for breach of contract, the DND made the decision that if the government could afford it, they would field all three aircraft. Stanfield decided to gamble the total.

On September 27, 1979, the Canadian Forces announced that the F-14s would be in addition to the NFA program, and that the aircraft would be used to replace the CF-101 Voodoo in the interceptor role. A few pointed out that the Tomcat would be doing what had been envisioned for the Avro Arrow, though the National Post sent a reporter to ask Grumman about how good the F-14 was. That reporter was invited to a test flight by Grumman of a Tomcat, to which he was amazed.

Iran, knowing that it could not get parts for its fleet of sophisticated American-made aircraft and that fixing the Tomcats was far beyond them, were happy to sell. On January 27, 1980, the Iranian government agreed to sell its 79 F-14A fighters to Canada for $1.3 Billion. Canada's deposit went quickly, and all of the fighters were flown to Canada between February and August 1980.

As soon as news of the sale of the Tomcats was on, the United States offered to also sell Canada the stock of AIM-54 Phoenix missiles that Iran didn't take delivery of, which Canada again took advantage of. Armed as such, the first reformed Canadian Forces CF-184 (the designation for the Tomcat) squadron activated on April 25, 1981.

The first CF-188 (F/A-18 Hornet) aircraft were delivered to Canada in December 1982, with the last one delivered in January 1988. The first unit to get the Hornet was HMCS Eagle, which wanted to retire and return the F-4s leased from the United States. The refit to allow Eagle to carry the Hornets was done from February-October 1983, and the carrier reactivated with its new air wing on January 10, 1984.

The CF-187 saw its first delivery to CFB Halifax on November 15, 1980, with the order completed in June 1982. All 54 aircraft were assigned to squadrons of the Maritime Command's Fleet Air Arm. They replaced several of the F-4 Phantoms on Eagle during its 1981 and 1982 deployments, before the Hornets finally allowed the Phantom's retirement in January 1984.

I like it!

 

[TheMann]

Canadian Power: The Canadian Forces as a Major Power

Part 1

1980 - The Canadian Forces' effort in 1980 is focused on the arrival of its new CF-184 and CF-187 aircraft. The first CF-184 arrived at Halifax on February 24, 1980, to a large crowd anxious to see just what the new warbird of the Canadian Forces looked like. The massive, swing-wing Tomcat certainly sparked imaginations.

The Americans, not displeased that Canada's new planes would constitute a massive upgrade of the Canadian and NORAD air defenses, had no issue with Canadian pilots using American simulators for training. Most of the new CF-184 pilots were fighter veterans anyways, so the move up to the Tomcat, while a massive jump from the CF-101, CF-104 and CF-116, was one that the pilots could make. Meanwhile, the United States began its sale of many of the auxillaries to the Maritime Command, including Sparrow, Phoenix and Sidewinder missiles. Meanwhile, the government decided, in a move which surprised many, to keep some of the CF-116 Freedom Fighters, largely as trainers and backup fighters. This was done with an eye towards being able to keep the fighters, which had all been manufactured in Canada, able to be used if they were needed.

Another deal was offered to the Canadians in 1980 from the Americans, again courtesy of Iran. Four missile destroyers had been ordered by Iran but not delivered due to the revolution. President Carter was not keen on the vessels being commissioned into the USN, and asked the Navy to find a buyer for the vessels if they could. Canada was first in line, and with its fleet of destroyers starting to show their age (particularly the St. Laurent and Restigouche class destroyers), the offer - $600 million for all four vessels - was a steal. Canada bargained the price down to $550 million, and the deal was signed on August 26, 1980. The first vessel arrived at Halifax on November 10, 1980.

1980 was a big year in politics in Canada, too. Quebec's Parti Quebecois government, which had been agitating for Quebec independence since its inception in 1968, had planned a referendum on the subject for May 1980. Stanfield, not at all sympathetic to the separatists, asked Trudeau to lead the government forces. Trudeau accepts, and with his right hand men Claude Ryan and Jean Chretien, are instrumental in defeating the referendum. The relations between the opposition leader and his archrival from across the aisle had never been openly hostile, though before this they had never shown a lot of respect for each other. After Trudeau's feverent fight to beat the separatists, however, that changed. At Trudeau's suggestion, and with the support of much of the country and most of his cabinet, Stanfield announced on October 15 that he would follow through on a promise made during the fight against the separatists to repatriate the Canadian Constitution.

A major PR coup for the CF is done when the Forces' offer to provide a helicopter to support Terry Fox in his attempt to run across the country. Terry's attempt is cut short due to spreading cancer at Thunder Bay, Ontario.

1981 - the first operation CF-184 unit, 421 Fighter Squadron, is activated at CFB Cold Lake, Alberta, on April 25. This squadron is the first of five 16-aircraft squadrons that are activated through 1981 and 1982 - two at Cold Lake, two at Goose Bay, Labrador and one at Bagotville, Quebec.

At the same time, Eagle returns from its last deployment with a full F-4 Phantom/E-1 Tracer air wing, trading in the Tracers for E-2B Hawkeye radar aircraft and half the F-4s for 18 brand-new CF-187 Corsair IIs. All of the Corsairs are part of the MARCOM's Fleet Air Wing, similar to the F-4s. The Forces undertake a highly public mission on June 25, when one of the CF Corsairs flies Terry Fox's father, who was on business in Halifax, Nova Scotia, home to British Columbia to be at his son's bedside. Fox's death on June 28 is a big event for Canada in General. The CF offers to do a fly-over as part of Fox's funeral, but the family wishes it not to be so public an affair, and the CF agrees. On August 11, destroyer HMCS Qu'Appelle is renamed HMCS Terry Fox. The Canadian Forces after this event becomes a very regular supporter of the Terry Fox Run, which grows to be a major event to raise money for cancer research across Canada.

The four Kidd-class missile destroyers - named HMCS Ontario, HMCS Quebec, HMCS British Columbia and HMCS Alberta - are commissioned through 1981, after crews are trained. They are first non-US vessels to use the SM-2 Standard surface to air missile, and are among the best air-warfare destroyers on the planet. The four destroyers are primarily used to support Eagle, providing Canada with a full setup for a battle group.

1982 - The first CF-188 Hornet fighters arrive in Canada in October, the first of the 138 fighters. That year, the Canadian Forces announces the development of the Canadian Patrol Frigate project, and a full plan for the future of the Canadian Forces in general.

The plan proposes for the Forces to be focused on three goals - the defense of Canada's airspace, coastline and realm; active involvement in NATO and other alliances and the assistance of good government all around the world. The specifics call for a modernized and upgraded land and naval commands, along with an independent air force capable of deployment anywhere in the world if needed. The goals of the plans are proven by the Falklands War between Argentina and Great Britain, which kicks off on April 2, 1982. That 74-day war results in the deaths of 255 Brits, 650 Argentines and three Falkland Island residents but allows Britain to retake the islands.

On September 21, 1982, Canada's patriated Constitution is signed in Ottawa by Queen Elizabeth II and Prime Minister Robert Stanfield. The ceremony also includes opposition leaders Pierre Trudeau and Ed Broadbent. On May 26, the Queen opens Canada's first session of Parliament after the constitution's repatriation.

1983 - The first operational Hornet unit commissions on June 17 at Bagotville, Quebec, while the last CF-187 is delivered to the Navy. Shortly thereafter, HMCS Eagle gets her first operational squadron of the Hornets, with that squadron of the Fleet Air Wing being activated on November 24, 1983, at CFB Shearwater near Halifax.

That year, the Canadian Forces begins many of the programs that its plan for the Forces' future outlines, with the frigates and new equipment for the land force being high on the list. Other programs, such as new helicopters and AWACS aircraft, are lower on the list but still being considered.

Big political news comes in April as Stanfield announces his retirement. He says he will stay on as Prime Minister and party leader until his successor is chosen. The battle for the Conservative Party leadership is fought bitterly between Joe Clark and Brian Mulroney. Mulroney is victorious, and with the succesison complete, Stanfield resigns from the Prime Minister job on October 20, 1983, allowing Mulroney to take his place. Mulroney is quite rapidly on good terms with both Canadians (Conservative popularity is high as the country comes powering out of its deep 1981-82 recession) and foreign allies. Him and US President Ronald Reagan in particular develop a strong relationship. That year, an interview by US Navy Chief of Naval Operations James Watkins is a chuffer for the Canadian Forces, as Watkins calls Canada the United States' "strong right hand", and expressing satisfaction that the CF was quickly becoming a very modern military force.

1984 - A massive milestone for the Maritime Command is passed when the first "Canada Squadron" sails into the Atlantic Ocean, departing Halifax on April 25, 1984. The fleet, made up of Eagle, missile destroyers Ontario and British Columbia, anti-sub destroyers Annapolis and Terry Fox and submarine Ojibwa, sails out into the Atlantic and faces off with USS Forrestal, which finds the Canadian carrier, with its CF-18 Hornets and CE-2 Hawkeyes, to be a fairly tough rival. Ojibwa makes things even worse for the Americans when it shows up during the exercise immediately behind Forrestal, leading to a comment by Forrestal's CO "We got beaten. I don't know how, but the igloo-dwellers beat us!"

The success surprises the Maritime Command, which expected the aging Oberon class subs to be easy prey for American nuclear subs. The success of the Canadian Forces' rebuild of Eagle and the problems faced by British forces in Argentina leads to Thatcher's decision in June 1984 to order HMS Ark Royal, which had been decommissioned in 1978 and laid up, to be reactivated. In late 1984, the Royal Navy asks for Canadian Forces technicians to assist them in rebuilding Ark Royal back to battle-readiness. The Canadian Forces of course agree, and the United States, where President Reagan is undertaking his own big defense buildup and is more than happy to allow two of his staunchest allies to work up their military capacity. HMS Ark Royal enters dry dock at Marconi Marine's year in Glasgow on September 14, 1984, while work is still done on her design.

The 1984 Canadian elections are the third-straight Conservative majority government, but this time Mulroney grows the Conservative Majority to 150 seats out of a possible 282. The Liberals score decently under John Turner, winning 91 seats. The NDP gets their best-ever showing, grabbing 41 seats. Mulroney continues with the plans for Canada's military.