What if the Southern Colonies had Remained Loyal to the Crown?

[aspie3000]

I've heard that the Southern Colonies in what would become the United States during the American Revolution Virginia, Maryland, the Carolinas, and Georgia were more loyalist leaning than the northern colonies. I don't know if this is ASB but what if these colonies stayed loyal to the British Empire while the Northern Colonies gained their independence through French intervention? How would the South develop especially in the 1830s when the British Empire ended slavery? Would they fight a war with the British to defend the institution as they did with the north? Would the colonies spread west and what would the Souths geographical boundaries be? Would the south become a commonwealth nation like the other English colonies? Would the independent south be some kind of horrific apartheid state or would race relations be better than our time lime? How would the North develop and what would its geographic spread be?

 

[B-29_Bomber]

Virginia would probably go Patriot seeing as they contributed quite a few statesmen to the cause.

It's not ASB though to have the South stay with Britain. Just have the British Southern Campaign succeed.

 

[aspie3000]

It's not ASB though to have the South stay with Britain. Just have the British Southern Campaign succeed.

Ah, well we'll just go with that.

 

[B-29_Bomber]

Ah, well we'll just go with that.

Though it's not impossible to have South Carolina and Georgia remain loyal and maybe North Carolina.

But remember, as OTL proves there was significant Patriot support in those colonies so you will probably see major fighting between Patriots and Loyalists.

Also, it's entirely possible that Patriot statesmen might form their own rebel governments similar to what happened in Virginia OTL.

OTL the Governor of Virginia, based out of Williamsburg disbanded the Virginia legislature and Virginia politicians loyal to the Patriots formed a new government in Richmond.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

See
Dominion of Southern America - Updated August 1, 2017

 

[Corjomc]

They won't be very happy when their loyalty is repaid by Britain telling them to end slavery.

Does the North ally itself with the French as a balance of power?

 

[aspie3000]

They won't be very happy when their loyalty is repaid by Britain telling them to end slavery.

Does the North ally itself with the French as a balance of power?

I would assume they would yes, being surrounded on all sides by British colonies.

 

[Avrorrange]

They won't be very happy when their loyalty is repaid by Britain telling them to end slavery.

Does the North ally itself with the French as a balance of power?

The British probably won't end slavery for a long while in ITTL.The whole dynamic of the otl abolitionist movement in Britain has been changed for this.

 

[aspie3000]

See
Dominion of Southern America - Updated August 1, 2017

Oh yeah, I'll read that, but from what it looks like, Virginia and Maryland don't stay with the British in that timeline. My question is how the entirety of what would become the American South would develop under a union with Britain rather than the Yankees.

 

[Claudius]

Of course, butterflies aplenty. If Parliement decided to forstall any future rebellion in the Loyalist colonies by (say) granting peerages and allowing some of these new peers seats in the House of Commons, or even Lords, the fight against slavery in Britain will become that much harder. Given the mercantilist economics of that time, 100% of the revenues from cotten will find their way to London.Mr. Wilburforce, if he existss in this ATL will find abolition politically and economically much more difficult.

 

[Fabius Maximus]

They won't be very happy when their loyalty is repaid by Britain telling them to end slavery.

Slavery wasn't as big a thing in the South as it would be by the 1860s, so it's not clear they'd be any more unhappy than, say, the Caribbean islands, which IOTL accepted abolition without kicking up too much of a fuss.

The British probably won't end slavery for a long while in ITTL.The whole dynamic of the otl abolitionist movement in Britain has been changed for this.

Abolitionism had already got going in the UK (the Somerset Case was three years before the AWI broke out), so I don't think abolitionism would be much if at all delayed compared to OTL.

 

[Fabius Maximus]

Anyway, if the Southern colonies remain loyal, would Britain be able to win the AWI outright? The South would provide a much more convenient base than Canada, giving Britain a better strategic position, not to mention the fact that their enemies are only half as strong as IOTL.

 

[Avrorrange]

Slavery wasn't as big a thing in the South as it would be by the 1860s, so it's not clear they'd be any more unhappy than, say, the Caribbean islands, which IOTL accepted abolition without kicking up too much of a fuss.



Abolitionism had already got going in the UK (the Somerset Case was three years before the AWI broke out), so I don't think abolitionism would be much if at all delayed compared to OTL.

Got going doesn't mean it will be as successful as otl.Even in otl,it wasn't until a few decades later that slave trade(not the whole institute itself) got banned.

 

[aspie3000]

Anyway, if the Southern colonies remain loyal, would Britain be able to win the AWI outright? The South would provide a much more convenient base than Canada, giving Britain a better strategic position, not to mention the fact that their enemies are only half as strong as IOTL.

Right, the Yankees have quite the hurdle to jump to beat the British. That's why I invoked the French, to give them a chance and because it happened on our timeline.

 

[aspie3000]

Got going doesn't mean it will be as successful as otl.Even in otl,it wasn't until a few decades latter that slave trade(not the whole institute itself) that got banned.

Yeah, the cotton gin would've been invented and slavery would have spread across the continent by the time of the British abolition of slavery.

 

[Corjomc]

I can just see the Southern Colonies battle cry when they rebel

"No Emancipation without Representation!"

 

[aspie3000]

I can just see the Southern Colonies battle cry when they rebel

"No Emancipation without Representation!"

And after they lose, "It was about STATES RIGHTS!"

 

[BigDestiny]

I would assume they would yes, being surrounded on all sides by British colonies.

So what happens during the French Revolution which I'd assume it still happens? If anything, it might happen sooner since fewer American Revolutionaries would probably require more French money.