What if the Dutch never lost New Netherland?

Othniel

What if the Dutch allied with the French in the French-Indian War? Instead the English get the Dutch colonies and everything to the Mississip and North of the Missouri River to the boarder with Quebec. Most intriging consquences that would have...
 

David S Poepoe

Banned
NomadicSky said:
Say the british do take the colony but lets give the dutch longer to rule the colony and give it a larger dutch speaking population
then is is plausible it might be like quebec and at some later point establish a soverign state?
Click to expand...

It most likely will never be like Quebec because the Netherlands does have the population for 'a larger Ductch speaking population'. Just consider the respective size of the home country versus Britain and France. The fact that the Dutch were wrapped up in some many wars with the French pretty much guarantee that they don't have the surplus population to settle elsewhere.

What is probably likely is that the Dutch control only a few strategic points, like New Amsterdam and OTL Buffalo, but a good portion of the colony would be occupied by the Iroquis Confederation. Its far more likely that New Amsterdam will be more like the Dutch East Indies, a small colonial population controlling a much large indigenous indian population. Its likely to consider that any of the wars of the 20th century will weaken Dutch control of the colony and allow Native American Indians to gradually take control.
 

Melvin Loh

Hmmm, what about my previous post (to which nobody replied) about the prospect of a more contested Dutch resistance to the Duke of York's occupation of New Amsterdam in 1664 ? Say, if there'd been somebody more popular and perceived as legitimate instead of the tyrannical Stuyvesant whom the Dutch farmers and STADTHOLDERS would've wanted to fight for ? Could there have been some sorta parallel in NA of significant Dutch resistance to English-speaking rule along the lines of the Boers in South Africa, and what would've been the effects on future ethnic relations in America ? Also, what about the likes of the Roosevelt clan- would they still have been as influential in American politics into the 20th C with such circs of a cont'd New Netherland ?
 

NomadicSky

Banned
New Idea

What if the dutch settled a different area?
Forget New York having ever been Nieuw Amsterdam
what if the dutch settled Acadia? although it never was Acadia the Dutch established a colony there long before the french did
 

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NomadicSky

Banned
Yes

And if a country the size of our state of Oregon can settle two thirds of North America and all of Australia (the british) then why can't the dutch settle an area the size of New York? Or Acadia
 

David S Poepoe

Banned
NomadicSky said:
And if a country the size of our state of Oregon can settle two thirds of North America and all of Australia (the british) then why can't the dutch settle an area the size of New York? Or Acadia
Click to expand...

Since when does territorial size equate to population? At least one of the problems that the Dutch had was that they sold goods (and arms) to anyone - even their enemies. The main problem with the Netherlands is that they are on the European continent and border France.
 

NomadicSky

Banned
Flaming imagination

Yes I have always been one to over think things
but what if they had as you can see Halifax is New Amsterdam
 

Matthew Craw

prolonged Dutch rule in the New Netherlands is easy, they actually did retake it in the third Angl-Dutch war but decided it wasn't worth holding onto at the peace settlment. There were plausible reasons for adopting a different attitude - the colony controlled a profitable fur trade and was ideally sited for cooperating with the yankees in circumventing the Acts of Navigation.

They would probably have had to concede most of Long Island, which had already been settled from New England. The fate of what became New Jersey and Pennsylvania is less certain, but let's assume England keeps them too, leaving the Dutch with basically the same territorial claims as NY state.

The eighteenth century saw a lot of German emigration to north America - no reason why much of it would not be attracted to the new Netherlands, there's good land along the hudson and immigration could be quite profitable for the Company and pre-existing local population (apart from the Amerindians). By 1750 the colony could easily have a population of 60-100, 000, predominantly rural and German-speaking but with the elite and the towns Dutch, although this division need not be permanent.
 

Nicole

In OTL, Vermont was settled by New Englanders (Manly Connecticuit and New Hampsherians), who formed the Green Mountain Boys to resist control from New York. The area was de facto independent follwoing the Revolution, but New York calimed it, preventing it from being a state.
 

Nicole

It really depends on who gets there. If the New Englanders do, an alt-Green Mountain Boys will oush for separation from New Netherland. If the aforementioned German settlers do, then it stays in New Netherland. I don't know when Vermont was first settled.
 

David S Poepoe

Banned
I think by looking for the historical record we can get the idea that Dutch territories, particularly New Amsterdam, would not extend much further north along the Hudson River than the northern border of Massachusetts. So it would probably be a column shaped territory from the city of New Amsterdam to OTL Albany, New York.
 

Leo Caesius

Banned
Don't forget the Jersey settlements. Even as far south as Cape May, you see many Dutch names among the oldest families. Dutch settlement would be complemented by slaves and indentured servants, as well as immigrants from Sweden, Finland, and Germany, as it was in OTL. Furthermore, as you mentioned before, they might come to some kind of an arrangement with the aboriginal populations (Iroquois, Mohegan, Delaware, etc.).
 

Leo Caesius

Banned
Is there any chance that the Jersey peninsula might remain a Dutch colony surrounded on two sides by British settlements? It has certain natural boundaries that the Empire state is lacking.
 

Melvin Loh

Dutch relationships with SWANEKINS

Guys, why are you all assuming that the Dutch settlers in New Netherland would've still retained relationships with the Indians ? Remember during the 1640s Dutch soldiers and settlers under Willem Kieft were involved in some horrific atrocities against various indigenous tribes such as the Wappinger, including the 1643 Pavonia Massacre where men, women and children seeking shelter with the Dutch were either mercilessly butchered, or taken back to New Amsterdam and slowly tortured, dismembered and burned alive before a jubilant crowd of local settlers, with the heads being used as kickballs. Wouldn't a prolonged New Netherland have seen cont'd perpetration of such atrocities against the native ppl ?
 
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