UCS Clarification Conference

[Penelope]

A thread for the retooling of UCS.

Quote from Thande:

OK, we're in a bit of an avalanche of fiddling here. Let me make a proposal.

Let's get together and put together a new colour scheme, learning from what we have seen in this thread to provide colours for countries that show up in ATLs more than I expected. For example, let's clarify colours for "Prussia/Austria/Bavaria/Other state-centred Germany/German colonial successor state". Also whether Commie-red means radical Russia or chief commie state, and so on.

Then let's start a new thread and post refined and finalised versions of all the maps in this thread using that new colour scheme.

We can use my NMCS as a starting point, as seen in this map. We DON'T need all the colours and provincial-level variations shown there, but we can reassign them for ATL countries that crop up a lot.

Who's with me?

So essentially, we're going to use this thread as a culmination of all the things we have learned in the past UCS redesigning threads. Adding new colors for frequent features in alternate history, and perhaps changing a few of the current colors.

We will start with this map:



We need to figure out which colors we need the most. I'd say we need, right off the bat, some variants of colonial nations, and variants for alternate government OTL nations.

 

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

We need to figure out which colors we need the most. I'd say we need, right off the bat, some variants of colonial nations, and variants for alternate government OTL nations.

I disagree. Right off the bat I think we need to confirm Canada and Australia, as both these nations come up a lot in UCS these days.

Additionally, that map is Iori's, not Thande's. Thande's original is here:

 

[Agemennon]

For OTL/Near-OTL Maps:

UCS Levels (basically it will be a sort of "cascading chart")

Ultra-High:
-Only Superpowers Denoted in Color
-All other nations denoted in Gray/White

High:
-Superpowers Denoted in Color
-Powers Denoted in Color
-All other nations denoted in Gray/White

Medium-High:
-Superpowers denoted in color
-Powers denoted in color
-Regional Powers denoted in color
-All nations with colonies or are non-contigous denoted in color
-All other nations denoted in gray/white

Medium:
-Most first world/second world countries denoted in color, all other nations denoted in white/gray

Low:
-Almost every country in color, fairly arbitrary at this point

Ultra-Low:
-Every country colored (literally)

Examples:

Ultra-High: Map only with the USA and USSR colored
High: Iori's UCS maps
Medium-High: Any UCS map from about a year ago (usually the ones used in map games)
Medium: The UCS map of the day
Low: No real examples.
Ultra-Low: Thande's Nightmares

On the topic of new additions:

A more formalized documentation needs to be made of the UCS. One of a text format to accompany the image document itself. In it should be recorded the hexadecimal values of each UCS color, to help ensure quality. (and that way we can record alot less information in alot less space).

 

[Thande]

I disagree. Right off the bat I think we need to confirm Canada and Australia, as both these nations come up a lot in UCS these days.

Additionally, that map is Iori's, not Thande's. Thande's original is here:

Yeah, let's get that sorted.

I think the Canadian and Australian colours used there are pretty good, everyone OK with keeping them?

I also have two shades of colour for the CSA states and territories, as shown here:

 

[Thande]

A more formalized documentation needs to be made of the UCS. One of a text format to accompany the image document itself. In it should be recorded the hexadecimal values of each UCS color, to help ensure quality. (and that way we can record alot less information in alot less space).

Definitely agree with this, although I don't like the idea of having multiple standards. The whole point of this exercise is to keep the maps readily comparable.

 

[Thande]

I think what we need is a consistent scheme for dominions and colonial successor states, particularly for the usual suspects in colonial powers.

I also suggest we consider revising the Russian gold/red and Chinese green/pink system to make it more consistent and less exceptionalist. Romul's maps have suggested using striping to indicate Communist states, as shown here:

 

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

I agree with the dominions. If Britain is going to have dominions, and now France, then what other countries? I've seen Spain with 'self-governing' colonies in a couple of maps. Though I'm not entirely sure how the creation of dominion colours works.

Is it entirely necessary to distinguish between communist/non-communist states? We don't do it for any other ideology.

 

[Penelope]

We do a variant of it for Nazi Germany.

Also, as I've said many times in the past: Norway needs a new color.

 

[Thande]

Is it entirely necessary to distinguish between communist/non-communist states? We don't do it for any other ideology.

I was suggesting we broaden Romul's convention so we can just stripe Russia to make the Soviet Union or China to make Communist China rather than using separate colours for them. It's useful to have the option for when you need to represent two separate Chinese regimes (as in OTL) or a civil war.

As for how dominion shades work, I recommend we set up a consistent scheme, but basically my idea is to adjust Luminosity and Saturation down to make them washed-out (but dark, not pale) versions of the home country colour.

 

[Thande]

We do a variant of it for Nazi Germany.

I've always opposed that, it doesn't make any sense when you never have the Nazis coexisting with any other Germany, and it's too similar to the Confederate colour(s).

Also, as I've said many times in the past: Norway needs a new color.

The reason I used that one is because the other option that shows up a lot is a daft one that looks IDENTICAL to the American colour. But by all means suggest others. I agree it's probably too many shades of blue in Europe.

 

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

The reason I used that one is because the other option that shows up a lot is a daft one that looks IDENTICAL to the American colour. But by all means suggest others. I agree it's probably too many shades of blue in Europe.

Aye, but the new Norway colour looks almost identical to Brazil.

 

[Hapsburg]

Meh. I'm just gonna keep using the one I've been using for a couple years. Not too many colours, and not too few.

EDIT: Jesus Christ, I've been here for over five years. Wow.

 

[iori]

Additionally, that map is Iori's, not Thande's. Thande's original is here:

I don't own the X-UCS.

Incidentally I'd like to propose a change for Spain, that is for most of Spain's history it uses the Caramel color the ICS uses for it, while it uses the current UCS color for the Fascists in the SCW and the Franco era, that way their's no issue between Russia and Spain having colors that are to similar.


Oh, right, I suppose I'll post the ICS (on the X-UCS).

 

[iori]

Oh, and since I have'nt added it yet, the colors I use for the major or likely to undergo some level of integration Supranational entities.

 

[Pkmatrix]

Oh, and since I have'nt added it yet, the colors I use for the major or likely to undergo some level of integration Supranational entities.

Hm... USAN Red looks kinda similar to USSR Red, though...

 

[iori]

Hm... USAN Red looks kinda similar to USSR Red, though...

Well apart from ATL's the two don't have any overlap, that and I use a dark red for the USSR, so yeah.

Oh, and the USAN color is taken from the USAN Flag.

 

[Chris S]

I think what we need is a consistent scheme for dominions and colonial successor states, particularly for the usual suspects in colonial powers.

I would like to suggest that the transition from the dominion colour to the individual colours for states like Canada and Australia should happen in 1950 because that is the year that the Commonwealth fundamentally changed in allowing republics to remain members of the Commonwealth following India's intention to become a republic in the late 1940s.

 

[Thande]

I would like to suggest that the transition from the dominion colour to the individual colours for states like Canada and Australia should happen in 1950 because that is the year that the Commonwealth fundamentally changed in allowing republics to remain members of the Commonwealth following India's intention to become a republic in the late 1940s.

I don't think that's necessarily relevant to Canada and Australia though. I tend to put the change around about 1964, arbitrary I know but basically you have to think about 'at what point does Britain get in a war and the dominions don't automatically jump in alongside her?'

 

[iori]

Would'nt it make sense to switch the colors the Dominions are basically fully idependent, even if it's only de facto?

In which case I suppose the switch would be betwen the late 40's and late 50's.

 

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

It's funny. Most kiwis put our independence at 1947. I don't really understand why it's so ambiguous.