TLIAW: The Reluctant Republican

Things may be getting a bit on the complicated side. It is only a mini-timeline of sorts, after all. It may be enough for me to understand the details and write down the story from that understanding, but not necessarily include all those details in the writing itself. Is it enough to say, and make a perhaps 5 paragraph long entry out of:

"Candidate X did well in the primaries early on, before faltering for the following reasons. Candidate Y was a threat, and the following happened. But then Candidate Z swept in and secured the nomination because of what happened with X and Y."
Do I have to go into the finer, mathematical detail of what happened in a post, rather than simply covering what did indeed occur? That is the factor that worries me, because I do love you all, but I don't know if I care to go into that fine toothed detail. It seems more of the territory for a proper, fat timeline. I can give high school text book level detail, perhaps, but I don't know if I'm comfortable going too into the finer details.
 
Really looking forward to this TL. Two things off the top of my head:

1. Knowing that he's only got a year in the Big Chair, I can imagine LBJ pushing forward some of his Great Society agenda from '64-'65 to early '64. IOTL, of course, LBJ was busy campaigning and solidifying a Democratic supermajority. Here, I anticipate two things: (a) LBJ might very well spend the last of his political capital trying to get something like Food Stamps, the OEO, or possibly even Social Security passed in the summer of '64; and (b) the Democratic wave in the Congress is likely to happen ITTL regardless as to what happens at the top of the ticket, so LBJ is going to have a lame-duck session with a supermajority-Democratic congress. Particularly if a Republican is elected, I can see Johnson trying to ram through as many bills as possible from November '64 to January '65. (Of course, LBJ's health might conflict with this.)

2. As others have noted, liberalism is really at its high point in the U.S. in 1964, plus there would be a sense that the Presidency really "belongs" to Kennedy-Johnson. The only way I can see a Democratic ticket losing in '64 is if George Wallace leads it, and does something to indicate that his liberal VP running-mate is going to be marginalized. (As others have noted, LBJ will have made his preference for Humphrey very, very clear.)

In that scenario, I could see a Romney-Rockefeller (or Romney-Percy, or whatever obscure liberal Republican tickles your fancy) ticket actually running to the left of the Wallace-led Democrats and arguing that they were the "true heirs to the Kennedy-Johnson legacy."

In any event, we don't see that many alt-1964 TLs around here, so I'm looking forward to yours!
 
A few quick things. One, apologies for being a tease if you expected a timeline post. I have been extremely burned out with college; its prior to spring break and everyone and their brother wanted projects and tests in. I've gotten about 3-4 hours of sleep a night every day this week so far. However, I will hopefully get some updates in over the weekend or next week (or both). Gimme time to watch Goodfellas and Casino and listen to the Forrest Gump soundtrack for this Jukebox Timeline of mine.

Two, I really wished I named the introductory chapter "The Autumn Leaves". (Link). It's a Nat King Cole song that is not anachronistic like "Bang, Bang". Technically November is winter, but it just works so well.

Really looking forward to this TL. Two things off the top of my head:

1. Knowing that he's only got a year in the Big Chair, I can imagine LBJ pushing forward some of his Great Society agenda from '64-'65 to early '64. IOTL, of course, LBJ was busy campaigning and solidifying a Democratic supermajority. Here, I anticipate two things: (a) LBJ might very well spend the last of his political capital trying to get something like Food Stamps, the OEO, or possibly even Social Security passed in the summer of '64; and (b) the Democratic wave in the Congress is likely to happen ITTL regardless as to what happens at the top of the ticket, so LBJ is going to have a lame-duck session with a supermajority-Democratic congress. Particularly if a Republican is elected, I can see Johnson trying to ram through as many bills as possible from November '64 to January '65. (Of course, LBJ's health might conflict with this.)

I should probably cover that at some point. It's just figuring out how to format that in terms of proper chapter progression. I may have a year in review post or something, or maybe I can mix it in with the Democratic nomination post I'll do soon.

The big issue, which does worry me and made me consider if I shouldn't have made LBJ duck out closer to the convention, is how effective he'd be as a lame-duck. Not in terms of himself, but in terms of how Senators and Congressmen react to a president they know is leaving office soon.

2. As others have noted, liberalism is really at its high point in the U.S. in 1964, plus there would be a sense that the Presidency really "belongs" to Kennedy-Johnson. The only way I can see a Democratic ticket losing in '64 is if George Wallace leads it, and does something to indicate that his liberal VP running-mate is going to be marginalized. (As others have noted, LBJ will have made his preference for Humphrey very, very clear.)
The thing being that there is no Kennedy nor Johnson. Short of RFK being in the ticket, it opens up the presidency as a competitive race where neither candidate is an heir apparent.

In that scenario, I could see a Romney-Rockefeller (or Romney-Percy, or whatever obscure liberal Republican tickles your fancy) ticket actually running to the left of the Wallace-led Democrats and arguing that they were the "true heirs to the Kennedy-Johnson legacy."
I don't know who I'll have as Romney's running mate yet. Romney-Rockefeller is something I considered, but it may be too lopsided.

EDIT: George Romney/Prescott Bush? Dare I dream it? Forcing two major modern Republicans to actually have to deal with live their Eastern Establishment origins?

In any event, we don't see that many alt-1964 TLs around here, so I'm looking forward to yours!
Thankee. I've gotten interested in the forgotten elections lately, because no one covers them or plays with them, and there are a lot of untapped possibilities.
 
Last edited:
Gimme time to watch Goodfellas and Casino and listen to the Forrest Gump soundtrack for this Jukebox Timeline of mine.

I seem to find myself in a very small minority who greatly prefers Casino to Goodfellas. Both are good, but Casino is in my all-time Top 5, and is one of those movies I will always stop to watch when it's on (and there goes 3 hours of my life).

The big issue, which does worry me and made me consider if I shouldn't have made LBJ duck out closer to the convention, is how effective he'd be as a lame-duck. Not in terms of himself, but in terms of how Senators and Congressmen react to a president they know is leaving office soon.

True, although LBJ's arm-twisting is legendary. There's a reason he's the Master of the Senate and all.

The thing being that there is no Kennedy nor Johnson. Short of RFK being in the ticket, it opens up the presidency as a competitive race where neither candidate is an heir apparent.

The point I was going for is that, in this scenario, the average member of the electorate is going to feel as though the 1964 presidency "belongs" to Kennedy/Johnson (in much the same way that voters felt that OTL's 1964 election "belonged" to Kennedy, and thus resulted in a landslide against Goldwater that couldn't have happened any other year, IMO).

I don't know who I'll have as Romney's running mate yet. Romney-Rockefeller is something I considered, but it may be too lopsided.

Mac Mathias is still a Congressman at this point, so he's out. Percy's a fairly obvious choice. Scranton is more mainstream than liberal.

EDIT: George Romney/Prescott Bush? Dare I dream it? Forcing two major modern Republicans to actually have to deal with live their Eastern Establishment origins?

If you're really feeling bold, how about Margaret Chase Smith??!?

Thankee. I've gotten interested in the forgotten elections lately, because no one covers them or plays with them, and there are a lot of untapped possibilities.

Agreed. Looking forward to your post-Casino productivity :)
 
Before you get the update I began writing in a drunken stupor....
Would Humphrey run in the primaries? Or would Hubert, and any other serious contender, wait till the convention to get the delegates thrown behind them?
 


Lyndon Johnson's announcement threw the 1964 election into doubt. No process was thrown into more disarray than the Democratic primaries. Consisting of sixteen states and Washington D.C., it had been expected to be a low-key event. As Johnson had never declared his candidacy but was expected to run, a number of "favorite son" candidates ran in his place. These consisted of men such as Pat Brown of California, Sam Yorty of Los Angeles, California, John Reynolds of Wisconsin, Albert Porter of Ohio and Matthew Welsh of Indiana. These men had no intention to win the presidency themselves -- their candidacy would secure delegates who could then back Lyndon Johnson for the nomination.

The lone voice of dissent was George C. Wallace of Alabama. Elected to the governorship of his state in 1963, Wallace made himself highly visible as a populist voice of segregation and Southern dissent. As with other Southern politicians of his generation, some of this was genuine and much of it staged for effect. When President Kennedy increased efforts on racial integration in 1963, Wallace stood in direct opposition to that. This was the case physically in June of 1963, when Wallace "stood in the schoolhouse door" to block the entrance of two Black students to the University of Alabama. This incident gained Wallace national attention, and positioned him for a race for the Democratic nomination in 1964. Wallace made his announcement in November of 1963 in the city of Dallas, Texas -- a few days before President Kennedy was assassinated in the same city.

With Johnson's abdication of the nomination, Wallace became the only genuine candidate in the primaries. There were grave fears that George Wallace could become a Democratic Barry Goldwater -- a Conservative populist who would overwhelm a weak field of candidates and the party bosses. If Wallace did not take over the party, his presence could divide the Democrats in ways that would cripple the Democrats in 1964. The Wallace campaign was a growing concern for the party, made all the worse by the intense media attention on the primaries in the wake of Johnson's announcement. News media figures like Walter Cronkite could subtly lambast the governor. However, the Democratic establishment worried that attention would only lead to Southern support for Wallace, and give the public a sense that the Democratic party was divided.

The most influential figure in the Democratic party remained Lyndon Johnson. And it would be Johnson who shaped the outcome of the primaries. What was needed was a successor. The President had considered a number of potential running mates before he withdrew, but his favorite was Senator Hubert Humphrey of Minnesota. Humphrey was a clean-cut, reliable ally and Senate Liberal. As a Vice President, Johnson expected Humphrey would be a perfect president-in-waiting -- and more importantly, Johnson believed that Humphrey would follow the president and keep his criticisms to himself. Humphrey had recognition from the 1960 campaign, as well as an infrastructure of supporters and allies. And he was a Liberal who could appeal to the crowd that saw Johnson as a backward Texan or an illegitimate usurper. Hubert Humphrey was Johnson's ideal successor. In the White House, he would continue Kennedy/Johnson administration policies. Meanwhile, Lyndon Johnson could assume the role so many presidents had before him -- the role of elder statesmen. Acting as an adviser to the president, Johnson could be a guiding voice for a Humphrey administration, while also avoiding the stress of occupying the office himself. Humphrey would also be indebted to him for the presidency.

Hubert Humphrey may have entered the primaries himself, but Johnson did not wait. Inviting Humphrey to the White House, Johnson convinced the senator to enter the race, and offered his full support. Though somewhat late to the contest, Hubert Humphrey seemed to be the man the party needed. Johnson's plan for 1964 would be relatively simple: Humphrey would run with his public support, the field of "favorite son" candidates would be broadened, George Wallace would be shut out, and the delegates would support Humphrey at the convention. Behind the scenes, Johnson would use decades-worth of connections and his influence on the party elite to see that to fruition.

What Johnson could not control was Robert F. Kennedy. The Attorney General had been the slain President's brother and closest adviser. To many Americans, he symbolized most those remnants of a time that had just been lost. To many in the party, he was the favorite choice for Johnson's running mate. Johnson was not like most of his fellow Americans; he despised Robert Kennedy. It was a genuine hate that had burned since he first met Kennedy in the 1950s, and was made all the worse by Robert Kennedy's efforts to get him removed from the 1960 ticket, and his constant efforts to demean and embarrass Johnson in the White House. For his part, Robert Kennedy hated Lyndon Johnson. It was a blood feud few outside the government were aware of. As President and nominee, Johnson could block Robert Kennedy. Any movement for the vice presidency, or any attempt to seize control of the convention could be prevented. However, Johnson would no longer be the Democratic nominee, and despite all his behind the scenes efforts, Kennedy could capture the mood of the party and ride it to the vice presidency. Worse yet, Robert Kennedy was now in a position to run for the presidential nomination itself.
 
Last edited:
Great update! Too bad LBJ won't run again. :( Oh well, he's in until January 1965. Yay! :D

Or maybe I could have him suffer another massive heart attack. Hrmm. But one wonders literally What Becomes of the Brokenhearted. So I won't be that evil. (Also, the song is from 1966, so I can't use it for 1964/65). I should note that expect the Johnson administration to be OTL unless otherwise stated. I'll end up doing a "Year in Review" post after we get through the 1964 election anyway.
 
Last edited:
A few quick questions.

One, should I start adding images? Or are you guys ok with the pure text?
Two, are the song links working for everyone? And at that rate, is everyone aware that if you click the bar, the song pops up?
Besides that, any other feedback on the format?


Also, I hope to have something done for the Republicans before April. The problem is that I have to divide up the Rocky v Barry part and then do another update concerning Romney -- who he is, his entering, etc.
 
Last edited:
The text as it stands is more than adequate. Please, please, no Corbis.

I'm actually responsible for the Corbis issue, which once would have gotten me praise but now probably would get me stoned. I told Roguebeaver about a certain secret website I was planning to use myself and to keep it under his hat, however many years ago it was. Problem being there were watermarks and then everybody started using Corbis.

I apologize.

They are, I am, and it works well for me, at least.
Groovy.
 
Or maybe I could have him suffer another massive heart attack. Hrmm. But one wonders literally What Becomes of the Brokenhearted. So I won't be that evil. (Also, the song is from 1966, so I can't use it for 1964/65). I should note that expect the Johnson administration to be OTL unless otherwise stated. I'll end up doing a "Year in Review" post after we get through the 1964 election anyway.
:eek: Don't you DARE give him another heart attack! :( (Erm, sorry, don't mind me :D) Why not do something nice for him? Let him meet a pretty woman or something. :p
 


In 1964, America faced an uncertain future. Kennedy was dead, Johnson was out of the running, and both parties faced internal uncertainty. The worst hit was the Republican race for the nomination. Long before the events of 1964, it had been thrown into chaos. The Republican party once had a candidate, but their chances had flown. Top contender Nelson Rockefeller had seen his hopes dashed following a scandalous divorce and remarriage. His challenger, Barry Goldwater, was an insurgent who shocked the establishment and appeared to be in the lead for the nomination. Republican candidate after candidate faltered in the face of this, and the race was thrown into Helter Skelter. Though many Republicans would rather be dead than to be with another party, it looked like the Democrats would win the presidency. In its life, it had never faced such a disaster. It was a time for heroes.

From out of the blue, the Republicans would find their hope, and the hope for America. Their hope would be an unassuming candidate -- a self made man from an industrial area. He had the charm, though he may not have had the experience. As 1964 approached, though, the Republican party was desperate. And with a little luck, the establishment hoped it could work their trouble through to victory. In 1964, America had been won over by the British Invasion, lead by the pop group the Beatles. In the wake of the Kennedy assassination and the bitter winter of 1963, the Beatles offered a joy and vibrancy that had been lacking the American consciousness. They especially inspired the youth vote.

The movement started off simply at first. The adoring fans of the Beatles put up signs of Ringo Starr for president. But as the chaos of the year unfolded, it began to be taken all the more seriously. Representatives of the Republican party approached the group, which was at the time touring the United States. Though initially hesitant, group manager -later campaign manager- Brian Epstein approved of the idea as a means for better promoting the group. Ringo Starr was worried about the long road to the candidacy, and carrying the weight of a campaign for that long a period. However, Epstein and the group managed to convince him.

The Beatles would now turn their 1964 tour into a campaign for Ringo Starr. Though initial public reaction was cool, the group won over the American public with their witty charms and catchy hooks. The Republicans were also enticed by their outsider appeal and challenge to the fools on the hill. Through the campaign, delegates began to coalesce around Starr as both Rockefeller and Goldwater lost ground. At the Republican convention in July 1964, Ringo won on the first ballot. As he approached the stage to accept the nomination, the Goldwater loyalist stood up and there was a general walkout. In an especially visible scoff, Goldwater passed directly by Starr as he walked for the door. It had not come easy, but Starr had won the nomination.

For his running mate, Starr picked William Scranton of Pennsylvania. Scranton was a relatively moderate Republican, and a friend of Nelson Rockefeller. The candidacy shocked the Democratic campaign. Further shocking them was the popularity the Republican ticket saw in the polls. As the campaign continued to pick up steam, the party began to recognize they would have to work like a dog to keep the presidency.

Had Johnson allowed Robert Kennedy to be on the ticket, the Democratic chances would have been greatly increased. However, Johnson's own personal animosity blinded his better judgement. In the end, Humphrey would run with Governor Pat Brown of California. Another major tactical error was Humphrey's decision to hold a television debate in 1964. Starr, with outbursts from his fellow Beatles in the audience, easily outwitted and outpaced the older Humphrey and won over the press. Even vicious television ads against Starr did not turn the tide. In response to an ad stating that the Rolling Stones were better, campaign adviser John Lennon retorted "your mother". A backroom deal with Bruce Channel to sue over plagiarism for "Love Me Do" also failed. As the election night of 1964 loomed, Democrats could only hold their breath and hope, only being able to imagine what could happen, and perhaps being amazed by the results.


genusmap.php


Richard Starkey/William Scranton 308
Humphrey/Brown 230


As the poll numbers came in, Lyndon Johnson sunk into a crippling depression. Johnson was reported to have said, "Sweet Lord...to think that this is going to be in the hands of the man who did 'Twist and Shout'". Johnson began to drink and smoke heavily throughout the night. As with Eisenhower in reaction to Kennedy's victory in 1960, Johnson saw his blood pressure spike over the next few months, and had greatly increased flatulence. As Ringo Starr approached television cameras to accept his victory, he was surrounded by his fellow Beatle campaign advisers. Lennon was curt to the Democratic campaign, McCartney was congratulatory, Harrison was quiet, and Starr was just happy to be working. Just as they had help America heal in pop culture, the Beatles would now help them heal in politics as well. Despite his own doubt, Starr had won. He had been ... the Reluctant Republican.



Cast of Characters, In Order of Appearance

John Kennedy ... Cliff Robertson
Ho Chi Minh ...
Carl Hayden
Fidel Castro ... Frank Sinatra
George Murphy ... Ronald Reagan
Lyndon Johnson ... John Wayne
God ... Lyndon Johnson
Bob Dylan ... Phil Ochs
Ringo Starr ... Himself
 
Last edited:

As the poll numbers came in, Lyndon Johnson sunk into a crippling depression. Johnson was reported to have said, "My God...to think that this is going to be in the hands of the man who did 'Twist and Shout'". As Ringo Starr approached television cameras to accept his victory, he was surrounded by his fellow Beatle campaign advisers. Lennon was curt to the Democratic campaign, McCartney was congratulatory, Harrison was quiet, and Starr was just happy to be working. Just as they had help America heal in pop culture, the Beatles would now help them heal in politics as well. Despite his own doubt, Starr had won. He had been ... the Reluctant Republican.


Cast of Characters, In Order of Appearance

John Kennedy ... Cliff Robertson
Ho Chi Minh ...
Carl Hayden
Fidel Castro ... Frank Sinatra
George Murphy ... Ronald Reagan
Lyndon Johnson ... John Wayne
God ... Lyndon Johnson
Bob Dylan ... Phil Ochs
Ringo Starr ... Himself
:D I LOVE that John Wayne plays LBJ, and LBJ plays God. :D:D If it's an April Fools' joke, well played (pun not intended...or is it? :p )Also, love the LBJ quote.
 
Last edited:
If you can guess all the references, you win free cookies for life courtesy of AH.com. Just call up Ian and tell him I said this and he'll know what you're talking about. If he says he doesn't, it's just a test to see if you're really interested. Just keep calling up Ian and requesting your cookies.
 
Top