TLIAD: The Limpid Stream

Still going to post a map of TTL? That's be pretty interesting!

Also, what is Russia's population in TTL? I imagine a lot higher with no Great Patriotic War or Stalin....
 
Still going to post a map of TTL? That's be pretty interesting!

Also, what is Russia's population in TTL? I imagine a lot higher with no Great Patriotic War or Stalin....

I was just about to ask that. This is a fantastic TLIAFD/W, just a little hard to keep track of what's where.

Is the EC analogous to the EU, or is it a proper federalized Europe?
 
Meadow and I are in the early stages of a joint-effort though, so watch this space over the next few months.

Another one? :eek: You two are unstoppable! :D

I did envisage this as a robotic probe, sadly. As Thande notes, there certainly isn't anything too SF about the concept, but as I think I made clear, rocketry is far, far behind OTL at this stage, probably no more advanced than the mid-seventies. The lack of a proper Cold War would not have helped, nor the likes of Operation Paperclip giving one side a major advantage. Although the technology exists, there hasn't been a manned moon landing as of yet and international co-operation doesn't go much beyond the odd bilateral mission for some of the big ones.

As you say - the Eastern post-German states tend to be monarchies, just as the ones that were envisioned in OTL would have been - but Republicanism in the West, especially with the likes of Spain and Italy, has happened - especially given that there's no *Nazi Germany to prop up the Nationalists in any sort of Spanish Civil War.

Since the mission to Venus is described as joint Anglo-Italian effort, does that mean that neither country is part of this alt-European Community? If so, is that the reason for such partnership to be established or did something happen during or after the War of the Iron Pact that pulled the two nations together? As an Italian, this "special relationship" between my homeland and the UK fascinates me!

The fact that eugenics is still fairly mainstream ITTL is quite likely, given that you haven't had the mass discrediting of the idea under Fascism. The lack of a major international conflict post-WWI has also made international politics a great deal messier. Despite the best intentions of the League of Nations and the European Confederacy, bi-lateral rivalries are going to be more common, and I think that small-scale conflicts between otherwise developed nations will persist for quite some time to come.

The real question about eugenics would be if it managed to transcend its so-called "negative" form that was most common in the late XIX/early XX centuries and evolved into its "positive" approach, derived by deeper understanding of Mendelian genetics. I mean, I hope the Russian Minister for Eugenics by the second half of '900 are able to do something more than ordering the sterilisation of criminals and mentally ill people and that something like "genetic counselling" exists for people wishing to have hereditary disease-free children.
 
Amazing as ever and highly original. You've crafted a world that is both totally alien and completely recognisable. Neither overwhelmingly utopic or dystopic, but different and therefore much more interesting (imho).

Unfortunately I don't know nearly enough about Russian history to comment on specifics, but I really enjoyed the plausible portrayal of a transition from autocracy to revolutionary state to "strong man" dictatorship, to eventual "western" democracy. The timeline really captures the feel of just how long and difficult it can be for that kind of democratic tradition to take root.

I'd second the call for a map, even just one of Europe (presumably the region most changed in borders and political geography), but I appreciate that you might want to keep the style of the work "as is" with interpretation of the wider world left to the reader.
 
Fred Koch as President? Oh Lord...:D

I confess that this was a little "OMG, butterflies" and I have really made the cardinal sin in most timelines by ignoring the fact that - come fifty years from the PoD, it is unlikely that anyone recognisable to their OTL selves are going to exist. That said, it was only a bit of fun, and I think that there is a contractual obligation to have at least one independent in the White House in the majority of timelines.

:rolleyes:

So is there a reason why King Alexander took a Scottish name (becoming, I presume, the first monarch to do so)? Very fun, and it's interesting to see how many people were forced to leave their countries and became influential in their fields in the new countries. As you say, in some respects this is a better world than OTL, in others it isn't. Overall though, any timeline without the USSR and Nazi Germany is almost bound to be an improvement. It's hard to imagine circumstances where their absence makes things worse.

Well, OTL's (and presumably, ITTL) Edward VIII would have been David III had he taken his favourite name as his regnal number. If I remember correctly, EdT had 'Alexander IV' as King-in-Exile at the end of FaBR, so I didn't think it was too unlikely. I suppose that a monarch who ascends to the throne at a time when Scotland has rumblings of secessionist tendencies may decide to take the name as a sop to the nationalists.

For the record;

Monarchs of the United Kingdom of Great Britain, Northern Ireland, the Irish Free State and the Commonwealth Realms

1910-1936: George V
1936-1971: Edward VIII
1971-2009: Alexander IV
2009-0000: Victoria II
(great micromanagement grand-strategy game, Ed.)

Still going to post a map of TTL? That's be pretty interesting!

Also, what is Russia's population in TTL? I imagine a lot higher with no Great Patriotic War or Stalin....

I may well do a map, it is a four-day weekend after all!

I imagine that Russia's population is a good fifty million above OTL - not simply because of the Great Patriotic War or Stalin's Purges (mass killings have still happened under Wrangel) - but also because the slowed development of gender matters and acceptability of birth control. That is pure speculation of course, I'd have to actually sit down and feed some numbers into a spreadsheet.

I was just about to ask that. This is a fantastic TLIAFD/W, just a little hard to keep track of what's where.

Is the EC analogous to the EU, or is it a proper federalized Europe?

I did indeed see the EC as being similar to the European Union - but with more emphasis on military integration than on economic/trade matters. The Confederation Headquarters are based in Vienna, the inception from the idea coming from the development of Danubia. The Habsburg family obviously, have been very heavily involved in promoting it.

Amazing as ever and highly original. You've crafted a world that is both totally alien and completely recognisable. Neither overwhelmingly utopic or dystopic, but different and therefore much more interesting (imho).

Unfortunately I don't know nearly enough about Russian history to comment on specifics, but I really enjoyed the plausible portrayal of a transition from autocracy to revolutionary state to "strong man" dictatorship, to eventual "western" democracy. The timeline really captures the feel of just how long and difficult it can be for that kind of democratic tradition to take root.

I'd second the call for a map, even just one of Europe (presumably the region most changed in borders and political geography), but I appreciate that you might want to keep the style of the work "as is" with interpretation of the wider world left to the reader.

It really means a great deal, old chap, thank you.

:)

As I said, I did not set out to make this anything other than 'different' - some things are better, some things are worse. I suppose that a lot of this comes down to where you are.

To use just one example, the Jewish population of Eastern Europe remains largely as it was in OTL prior to WWII, and Yiddish is still commonly spoken (our own Ms. Rosenbaum being a typical example) in place of Hebrew. However, Zionism has not taken root in any meaningful sense and although the Levant Federation has a number of immigrants, the world's largest Jewish populations are in the United States, Poland and Russia proper. I'm sure that this is still far preferable to the legacy of HaShoah - but the average Jewish person living ITTL is likely to be poorer, more actively discriminated against and with far more restrictions placed on their freedom of movement.

Another one? :eek: You two are unstoppable! :D

Since the mission to Venus is described as joint Anglo-Italian effort, does that mean that neither country is part of this alt-European Community? If so, is that the reason for such partnership to be established or did something happen during or after the War of the Iron Pact that pulled the two nations together? As an Italian, this "special relationship" between my homeland and the UK fascinates me!

The real question about eugenics would be if it managed to transcend its so-called "negative" form that was most common in the late XIX/early XX centuries and evolved into its "positive" approach, derived by deeper understanding of Mendelian genetics. I mean, I hope the Russian Minister for Eugenics by the second half of '900 are able to do something more than ordering the sterilisation of criminals and mentally ill people and that something like "genetic counselling" exists for people wishing to have hereditary disease-free children.

All very much food for thought - if I decide to flesh things out further (I may well do a map, actually) I may do so. As Meadow and others have said, one of the points of TLIAD/Ws is to get a coherent narrative done in a short space of time, rather than a focus on world building. I am sure that there are many areas of this TL that will fall to bits if they are questioned for an extended period of time, but I may have to have a think in the weeks to come.

Nevertheless, many thanks for all of your kind words - I will consider what you have said and get back to you.
 
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For the record;

Monarchs of the United Kingdom of Great Britain, Northern Ireland, the Irish Free State and the Commonwealth Realms

1910-1967: George V
1936-1971: Edward VIII
1971-2009: Alexander IV
2009-0000: Victoria II (great micromanagement grand-strategy game, Ed.)

Should that read 1910 - 1936 rather than '67 or have I missed something? 2 kings at the same time?
 
I imagine that Russia's population is a good fifty million above OTL - not simply because of the Great Patriotic War or Stalin's Purges (mass killings have still happened under Wrangel) - but also because the slowed development of gender matters and acceptability of birth control. That is pure speculation of course, I'd have to actually sit down and feed some numbers into a spreadsheet.

Actually, on the subject of gender matters, I discovered an interesting factoid on female Russian soldiers in the First World War that I scarcely believed myself when I first heard about it. Apparently the Russian Army was so devastated post-Battle of Tannenburg that women were often the only able-bodied adults left to be drafted in various border regions, so recruiters turned a blind eye to the sex of their recruits on a fairly impressive scale. Later, under the Provisional Government, these female soldiers were made official and organised into Women's Battalions, ostensibly to shame their male counterparts into continuing the fight on the Eastern Front (you've almost certainly heard of the most famous of these, the Battalion of Death, and the contingent of female soldiers who defended the Winter Palace during the Revolution). These battalions were disbanded by the Bolsheviks, but you're probably correct that (until Stalin at least) the Bolsheviks would have been more progressive on women's rights than a hypothetical Wrangel government might have been. But it bears mentioning that, as you alluded to in your post on Rosenbaum, Russia has oftentimes drifted towards matriarchy without even being conscious of it.
 
Polish independence was formally guaranteed, with Zdzislaw Lubomirski installed as King, although real power was placed in the hands of the Prime Minister, Józef Pilsudski.
I don't see these two in their positions.

In theory, Lubomirski was in regency council. However that doesn't translate directly into being a candidate for the crown. In addition, the POD is too late to improve the meager chances for Polish monarchy after WWI.

In theory, Pilsudski was PM in OTL, but that only happened after the May Coup and briefly at that. Earlier, Pilsudski separated himsefl from partisan support and hadn't held the parliament in high regard.

Still, the TLIAD was very enjoyable overall.
 
I must say, a very enjoyable TLIAD(and even accomplished in a short time period!) Looking forward to the map. Btw, I'd assume that Howard Stassen is a typo for the U.S. presidents list.
 
Still going to post a map of TTL? That's be pretty interesting!

What do you think? My first attempt at doing one of these.

the_russian_republic_by_lordroem-d7f57jy.jpg
 
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The part-retrò, part-worn-by-age style always makes a map 100% more funky looking! :cool: But...

(North) Chinese Afghanistan?! :eek:

Ah - I think I may have omitted to attach one of the vectors...

Actually - I may leave it, I haven't seen one of them myself.
 
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