TL-191A: What if Custer lived until 1944?

[BiteNibbleChomp]

I understand that Custer would be over 100 by this time, but people can live that long so let's just not worry about that part of it too much.

So if Custer survived until the end of the Second Great War, what sort of impact would he have upon things like the morale of the people? Would he speak out for restoring the Union, joining La Follette and whoever else was giving speeches? I don't think it is likely that he would lead an army, but would the War Department (or even a couple of people, such as Morrell or Dowling) care about his views?

I'm going to assume he does everything the same until he gets chucked out by the socialists, after that we can change things up a little.

Also, the Pacific War has to go the same as it did in canon 191, Jake Featherston acts the same way and other major events can't be changed.

- BNC

 

[m0585]

If he did somehow live to this point (and wouldn't be in a mental stupor), he would probably be nothing more than a morale/propaganda piece the War Department could bring out when things weren't going well (especially in 1941). Morrell had pretty much perfected his tactics as far as barrels were concerned; Dowling was a far better general, and thus would view him with little more than contempt; McArthur would just ignore him and continue with his reckless tactics (which ironically mirrored those that Custer used in GW1). With that said, Custer would definitely hold some sway with the public, being viewed as such a successful commander and all (he did help to beat the Rebs before).

 

[J.J.Jameson88]

He would probably occupy the same role Pershing did in OTL WW1. Although I don't think he'll be asking De Gaulle how Petain is. I've always been amused by his response, "The last time I saw the General he was well."

 

[BiteNibbleChomp]

He would probably occupy the same role Pershing did in OTL WW1.

I'm assuming you mean OTL WW2? It would be quite entertaining to see Custer yelling at McArthur "Soldier! stop wasting men throwing them straight at enemy lines."

If he did somehow live to this point (and wouldn't be in a mental stupor), he would probably be nothing more than a morale/propaganda piece the War Department could bring out when things weren't going well (especially in 1941).

In CCH, we are shown that Custer was getting forgetful (and a bit deaf), so he would probably be confused as to why he was being put on all these tours in 1941. Not that he would mind, of course.

Dowling was a far better general, and thus would view him with little more than contempt

Dowling had a decent amount of respect for Custer throughout the later series. Apart from his wasteful tactics, after GW1 Dowling doesn't ever have too much bad stuff to say, instead giving him credit for the victory in the barrel roll offensive.

I often wonder about how he would react when told that the CSA has surrendered and the country is reunited. After all, Custer came through West Point before 1861. Seeing the whole thing from start to end is sure to be cause for some comment.

- BNC

 

[CT23]

In CCH, we are shown that Custer was getting forgetful (and a bit deaf), so he would probably be confused as to why he was being put on all these tours in 1941. Not that he would mind, of course.

Was that before or after he was forcibly retired?

 

[BiteNibbleChomp]

Was that before or after he was forcibly retired?

After, in about 1928. IIRC he gets retired in Blood and Iron anyway (hence McGregor dying in that book).

- BNC

 

[Fenrir_Angerboda]

Custer was practically deaf, but still fairly sharp for a man of his age.

Retirement in 1922 really sent him downhill and everything just caught up to him.

A Custer that lived for another 10 years is likely to be in extremely poor health and unlikely to make any real impacts politically or militarily.

 

[CT23]

After, in about 1928. IIRC he gets retired in Blood and Iron anyway (hence McGregor dying in that book).

- BNC

I guess what I'm saying is that his de facto getting fired really hurt him and started his downward spiral early. If he had been allowed to stay on he probably would have been a little more healthy overall.

 

[BiteNibbleChomp]

Custer was practically deaf, but still fairly sharp for a man of his age.

Retirement in 1922 really sent him downhill and everything just caught up to him.

A Custer that lived for another 10 years is likely to be in extremely poor health and unlikely to make any real impacts politically or militarily.

Definitely possible, but even with his retirement his health never failed as far as we are told in the books. He got deaf and forgetful, yes, but there is never a mention of sickness. If we give him another 10 or 15 yrs, would he still be in a state to talk to the other generals?

I guess what I'm saying is that his de facto getting fired really hurt him and started his downward spiral early. If he had been allowed to stay on he probably would have been a little more healthy overall.

We're supposing that he still gets retired in 1922. At that sort of age, he is still going to 'fail' eventually. I just wonder about his reaction to the reuniting of US/CS

- BNC

 

[threadnecromancer]

I agree there isn't much more that can be done with him which is why HT killed him off.

He'd have been ecstatic if he'd still been with it.


If Turtledove had written his fourth Great War novel Settling Accounts I think Custer would have pulled a Sherman and burned Atlanta on the way to the sea.

If they'd lost I would expect he'd become a Hindenburg.

 

[BiteNibbleChomp]

I agree there isn't much more that can be done with him which is why HT killed him off.

I reckon he just killed him off because he thought that it would be reasonable (he was 92 or so then), and before that he had kind of faded into obscurity anyway at the end of Blood and Iron. It has been established that Custer being around would have no impact on the 2GW except for maybe a couple of entertaining comments (my favourite one in the whole series is probably that "getting an extra helping of courage instead of common sense" thing from one of the Great War ones).

If they'd lost I would expect he'd become a Hindenburg.

Why? If the USA lost the 1GW, Custer would be known for the victory in 1881, not anything from 1914. And he doesn't fight or anything (he's 100 and something, plus been retired for 20 years) in the 2GW, so there is no room for him to lose to Featherston.

- BNC

 

[Polish Eagle]

I think Custer's real impact, if any, would be on Canada or Utah policy, since he hated the former and was involved in pacifying Utah the first time in 1881. The Canadians were getting guns from the Japanese around 1930--if Custer's still coherent, I'd expect him to perhaps become a Democratic politician whose policy toward the Anglo-Canadians borders on genocidal. Something like the Morgenthau plan crossed with his memories of what worked against the Sioux.

Deportation of the Mormons would also be a plank in his platform.

 

[threadnecromancer]

Why? If the USA lost the 1GW, Custer would be known for the victory in 1881, not anything from 1914. And he doesn't fight or anything (he's 100 and something, plus been retired for 20 years) in the 2GW, so there is no room for him to lose to Featherston.

- BNC

I'm confused by your comment, firstly I think he would be remembered for his actions in the late war, but beyond that I'm not sure what you mean about him losing to Featherston.

Perhaps I was unclear, I said that if Turtledove had followed his original plan, which seems to be to have the CSA destroyed in a fourth Great War novel, then Custer would have probably taken a Shermanesque role in 1918.

If the US had lost the war I think he would have played the same role as Hindenburg post-war OTL. President before the totalitarian.

 

[BiteNibbleChomp]

but beyond that I'm not sure what you mean about him losing to Featherston

When you said 'if they lost', I thought you meant the US in the 2GW.

- BNC