TL-191 GW2 German military

In Tl-191 in the Second Great War, do you think the German military used craft (mainly thinking fighters and tanks) roughly similar to what the Nazis used IOTL WW2?
 
Probably fairly different. In tanks, well with no Versailles, would not have the masses of Panzer I training tanks and Panzer II stopgaps, in the first year of the war, nor the Czech Tanks. Instead would likely have older Infantry and Cavalry tanks, and the full production modern replacements ala the III and IV would come along earlier

fighters, probably similar but not exactly the same. Bombers now would be really different, actually would have a proper strategic bomber, less emphasis on twin engine bombers and heavy fighters

Navy would be really different and much better, Versailles essentially wrecked the German Naval design office and it never recovered
 
In regards to bombers, they would need a long range bomber that was capable of carrying a super bomb. Something along the lines of a B-29 perhaps, though different.

As to the navy, would the Germans see the value of the aircraft carrier differently than in the OTL?
 
In regards to bombers, they would need a long range bomber that was capable of carrying a super bomb. Something along the lines of a B-29 perhaps, though different.

As to the navy, would the Germans see the value of the aircraft carrier differently than in the OTL?
Aircraft carriers don't have much value for Germany, the OTL German aircraft carrier program would have been better cancelled and spent of subs or surface ships. The purpose of the OTL WWI era German Navy was to force the British to neutralize it diplomatically (give Germany concessions to keep Germany neutral) and to prevent a close blockade. In TL-191 you could probably add tying down 80-90% of the RN's modern heavy units to let the USN operate with greater freedom.

Aircraft carriers are not needed where land based air can cover, and the German Navy's heavy units are reasonably going to be operating under a land based air umbrella, since they are essentially trapped in the North Sea and Baltic as long as the RN is there in strength. So really no need for them to have carriers. Postwar, once the RN is no longer a factor, then having carriers would make sense

Would guess the heavy units of the 191 Hochseeflotte would look something like this

BB

4 Helgoland class, no longer combat capable, converted to support roles
5 Kaiser class, modernized to a degree some units, other converted to support roles and not combat capable
4 Koenig class, modernized, still mostly second line units
4 Bayern class, modernized, essentially first line units
4 ATL 1922 class, 4x2 42cm/45, 35cm Belt, 28 knots, modernized, first line units
4 ATL 1936 class, 4x2 42cm/48, 35cm Belt, 30 knots, modern unit designed to counter new Russian designs
4 ATL 1938 class, 4x2 42cm/48, 40cm Belt, 30 knots, modern unit designed to counter new British designs

BC
2 Derfflinger class, heavily modernized, second line units
4 Mackensen class, heavily modernized, first line units, though deployed more as Battleships
3 Ersatz Yorck class, heavily modernized, first line units, though deployed more as Battleships
 
In brief, I'd guess that the Imperial German Armed Forces would have more of a Defensive/Quick Reaction character, as opposed to the Hyper-Aggressive "Blitzkrieg" Wehrmacht.

My guess is that the key difference between the German Armed Forces of the Second Great War and those of the Second World War is one of strategic emphasis; the Kaiser's Legions are being tailored to Maintain German Hegemony across Europe (and possibly across Africa as well, although one suspects the Colonies are very much a distant second or even third priority - in the latter case after Western & Eastern Europe, of course) while Hitler's Army was put together with the single purpose of shredding the Status Quo into ribbons.
 
one suspects the Colonies are very much a distant second or even third priority - in the latter case after Western & Eastern Europe, of course).
The colonies are still important for the point of view of maintaining Germany's image as a great power. Military forces will be low because as we see below Germany will have heavy commitments in the Middle East.

[QUOTE="Tiro, post: 12888907, member: 88562"Aircraft carriers are not needed where land based air can cover, and the German Navy's heavy units are reasonably going to be operating under a land based air umbrella, since they are essentially trapped in the North Sea and Baltic as long as the RN is there in strength. So really no need for them to have carriers. Postwar, once the RN is no longer a factor, then having carriers would make sense[/QUOTE]
I would add the Mediterranean to this, assuming that the Germans can keep the Ottoman Empire propped up. The advantages of doing so mean that they can have bases in strategically locations.

The first thing in a war against Britain the Central Powers will do is try and shut down the Suez Canal either by seizing the east bank, mining it or sinking sufficient ships that nothing dare pass. Long range bombers would be of use here. It would also pay them to have submarine bases in Jeddah and Basra to interdict British oil tankers sailing from Persia. The latter can also be used to help shut down the Suez Canal. German oil from Mesopotamia would be transported by pipeline, and thus have to be protected from British financed guerillas.

If improved rail links were built then it would be easy to support Central Power forces from the Egyptian to the Persian borders. The catch of course is that the Ottomans would be no better twenty years than there were they were on OTL. That means that trying to invade Persia or conquer Egypt would probably lead to disaster. Much better to hold ground and deploy naval forces in the region to hit the oil tankers.
 
Since TL191 US got what sounded like the Me-262, what jet fighter do you think Germany used in TL191?
 
Since TL191 US got what sounded like the Me-262, what jet fighter do you think Germany used in TL191?
Where do you think the U.S. got a lot of there stuff from? The answer is, Germany. Remember, during the first great war, U.S. barrels were copies of German barrels, and later in the war, U.S. fighters were copies of the German albatross.
 
In regards to bombers, they would need a long range bomber that was capable of carrying a super bomb. Something along the lines of a B-29 perhaps, though different.

Did OTL Germans try to make a long range strategic bomber? That might be what they'd try to develop in TL-191.
 
one factor here is the reversal of roles. In this TL, Germany was the winner of the GW, while the allies were drubbed. So, you don't have a Germany that is looking at new tactics and weapons to prevent the mistakes that cost them the last war, while the UK/France is doing just that. Would Germany basically try to 'refight the last war' (a common mistake) while the allies have newer/different weapons and tactics?
 
So, you don't have a Germany that is looking at new tactics and weapons to prevent the mistakes that cost them the last war, while the UK/France is doing just that. Would Germany basically try to 'refight the last war' (a common mistake) while the allies have newer/different weapons and tactics?
Could be, but it is worth remembering that the Germans had strategic bombers as well as airships in the Great War. That the Luftwaffe did not have heavy bombers could be seen as a retrograde step.
 
Do you think the Eurofighter would get made in TL-191 eventually?
Butterflies man, butterflies. The POD is over 100 years in the past, OTL designs shouldn't be in the running by that point

Anyways Eurofighter sort of originated from a UK requirement for a new fighter design, and since the UK is unlikely to be in the sort of position to be issuing those sorts of requirements, no
 
With no nazi regime in place, the air force might be very different. There might be no obsession with dive bombers as in OTL, and brands like Messerschmitt and designs as iconic as the 109 might never materialise.

A German Empire in a CP victory world would have a tendency to follow post-WWI and interwar patterns that might not seems obvious to a modern day person, but are perfectly logical for the time period. One of these: Anthony Fokker and his company having a lot more influence in interwar period aircraft design, both civilian and military. Why not ? Fokker served Germany excellently during WWI, his designs became pivotal, and he was still respected and followed during the 1920s. The souring of German relations with surrounding countries since the 1930s also led to an end of the golden age of Fokker, even if the company stayed active and successful until the 1990s.

Ergo, among other things, look to OTL interwar Fokkers for inspiration.

TL-191's interwar Imperial Germany might operate something similar to OTL Fokker XXI's, especially if it stays more conservative in design and doesn't favour the "fighter = sportscar warplane" approach even after reaching the monocoque era.
 
Butterflies man, butterflies. The POD is over 100 years in the past, OTL designs shouldn't be in the running by that point

Anyways Eurofighter sort of originated from a UK requirement for a new fighter design, and since the UK is unlikely to be in the sort of position to be issuing those sorts of requirements, no

From what I read on it, a number of European countries worked together to make it. If that happened IOTL, why not ITTL?
 
From what I read on it, a number of European countries worked together to make it. If that happened IOTL, why not ITTL?
You could get A Eurofighter, but not THE Eurofighter

Many countries worked on it, but the base for the design was created in response to UK requirements, with other countries joining in early in the process after the basis of the airframe had been developed

Britain won't be in a position to build new jet fighters of their own for quite some time after losing the war, if ever. So the team that would design it likely doesn't exist, as the British aerospace industry was in bad enough shape as is OTL

Edit: Besides with a larger, richer Germany, there is no need for them to share the costs with other countries and get compromise designs. As such it is more likely that other European countries simply buy German designs
 
TL-191's interwar Imperial Germany might operate something similar to OTL Fokker XXI's, especially if it stays more conservative in design and doesn't favour the "fighter = sportscar warplane" approach even after reaching the monocoque era.

I really do like this suggestion, though I suspect that the likes of the Bf109 and its ilk - or something distinct, but very like them - would crop up in Timeline 191 (the RAF had both the Hawker Hurricane and the Supermarine Spitfire, after all).

For some reason I find myself wondering if the Imperial German Air Service would change its name between 1917 and the 1940s ...
 
Top