You avoided showing the ugly views. From profile. it's hideous. From planform, the engine/fuselage blend area is poorly done. A real undercarriage would have required paying patent fees. I assume they got that one for free. Although the wings are Corsair-like, which is partly good, their general finish is poor, and the wing is mounted too low on the fuselage to benefit from the Corsair's good aerodynamics at the joint. You'll notice it still requires filleting and the rear edge is draggy. While the wing tapers slightly in thickness, the chord tapers only by generously rounded tips. If the Bristol had the stall characteristics of the Corsair, it would be in deep trouble. As it was, it did enter a non-recoverable spin, a bad trait by itself. I hope Frank Barnwell was out the day this was designed, because it was an embarassment. At least the Vickers was cute. While the Gloster was far from perfect, it had good proportions, and looked like a Zero.
The Whale has Wings
- Thread starter Astrodragon
- Start date
- Status
You avoided showing the ugly views. From profile. it's hideous. From planform, the engine/fuselage blend area is poorly done. A real undercarriage would have required paying patent fees. I assume they got that one for free. Although the wings are Corsair-like, which is partly good, their general finish is poor, and the wing is mounted too low on the fuselage to benefit from the Corsair's good aerodynamics at the joint. You'll notice it still requires filleting and the rear edge is draggy. While the wing tapers slightly in thickness, the chord tapers only by generously rounded tips. If the Bristol had the stall characteristics of the Corsair, it would be in deep trouble. As it was, it did enter a non-recoverable spin, a bad trait by itself. I hope Frank Barnwell was out the day this was designed, because it was an embarassment. At least the Vickers was cute. While the Gloster was far from perfect, it had good proportions, and looked like a Zero.
The naval requirement for planes that have longer ranges than their land based counterparts could have positive repercussions for the overall British war effort. If the British are building roughly equivalent aircraft to Americans OTL, then they could start the war with a fighter and the know how to build it that has a greater range than both the OTL Spitfire and Hurricane by a couple of hundred miles, provided the idea of longer range fighters doesn't filter over from the Navy to the RAF. I'm not sure how something like the Wildcat compares to OTL German front line fighters in combat.
Anyway, it wouldn't take a genius to put 1 and 1 together and realize they can use these longer range fighters offensively against the Germans. They won't have fighter escorts all the way to Berlin at the beginning of the war, but they could possibly use them against forward Luftwaffe fighter bases, forcing them to possibly push further back from the Channel in an attempt escape attacks by longer range British aircraft. This will limit their range against British targets. Maybe more German bombers go down without fighter escorts?
Torqumada
Anyway, it wouldn't take a genius to put 1 and 1 together and realize they can use these longer range fighters offensively against the Germans. They won't have fighter escorts all the way to Berlin at the beginning of the war, but they could possibly use them against forward Luftwaffe fighter bases, forcing them to possibly push further back from the Channel in an attempt escape attacks by longer range British aircraft. This will limit their range against British targets. Maybe more German bombers go down without fighter escorts?
Torqumada
Having powerful, long range fighters with sufficient ammunition loads would have come in handy during the Dunkirk battle. Spits and Hurris left sufficient gaps in coverage that those on the ground doubted their presence. Again at Dieppe. Of course, they must not only persist, but prevail.
1934
The first and most important business for the FAA was the laying down of the Ark Royal. The new, purpose built carrier had been waited for so long that in some quarters it was almost mythical. Longer term actions were mainly to do with the support and infrastructure of the FAA, which were seen as quite inadequate in view of the expansion in both size and capability expected in the next few years.
What was needed to be done was fairly obvious, although there was, as expected, some dragging of feet among the battleship Admirals. However the new independence and coming equipment gained for the FAA had given those closely concerned with it a sense of optimism that managed to at least find ways around the more restrictive practises being proposed.
The most obvious requirement was for more pilots, and in particular senior pilots. In the past, a small number of naval pilots had been supplemented by RAF pilots, but this was not going to last for long. Accordingly arrangements were made to allow a considerable expansion of the RN pilot training program. Since the increased importance of naval aviation that was coming made it clear more prominence would need to be given to more senior air-aware staff, it was also felt that a better career path for pilots would be necessary. Unfortunately many of the officers who would have made admirable senior officers of this type were now serving in the RAF, having left the RN in 1918; however while it would take time, the process could at least be started. A number of the more flexible senior officers had expressed interest in learning much more about naval aviation and the detailed possibilities it offered, and arrangements were made to develop and include an air staff officer into the staff of the senior admirals.
There was also a considerable exchange of information at lower levels with the USN. While the senior officers in the USN often had issues with the RN, it had been found that aviators liked to talk shop, and getting a few drinks into a US pilot on a hospitality visit was a very good way of comparing tactics and training. As a result some things that the RAF had apparently found 'too difficult', such as over-water navigation and fast strikes were put back onto the training syllabus.
While the new aircraft were looked forward to with considerable anticipation, they wouldn't be ready for some time, so the main aims of the FAA were deemed to be training to increase the pool of skilled pilots (and supporting engineering staff), and examining and testing concepts and tactics that would be possible once the new planes arrived. They would also look at the defensive problem posed by aircraft with the capabilities of those being designed - after all, once the RN deployed planes like those, foreign powers were certain to try and match or exceed them, and it was unclear that the current defensive measure for the fleet could cope with them.
On the construction side, the current effort was finishing the design of the Ark Royal so as not to delay her start. It was still hoped to persuade the treasury that the continuing building of carriers by the Americans and the Japanese meant that more should be ordered, but in the meantime development work shifted to the concept of the Trade Protection carrier, or light carrier as it came to be known.
There were of course issues with the allowed displacement under the London Naval treaty. This allowed the RN 135,000t of carriers. The existing carriers could be discarded at any time, but they still couldn't build all they wanted to. This was a continuing problem due to the global commitments of the navy. The current design was hoped to come in at around 24,000t. Building 5 of these would allow one additional, smaller carrier in the range 12,000t - 15 ,000t, or building 4 would allow 3 smaller carriers (once the existing ones had been scrapped). The current proposal was for a minimum of 4 fleet carriers; this allowed one to be deployed in each main area (Home, Med and the Far East), while allowing for one to be unavailable due to maintenance and refit. If a fifth fleet was built, this allowed a second to be sent to whichever area was under the most threat. The final smaller carrier would normally be used for training, but it would also be available either for deployment or to relieve a fleet carrier in a lower threat area. It was hoped that something more suitable could be done when the talks came up for renewal.
The idea of a smaller carrier for use on the trade routes and to cover commerce raiders had been considered for many years, but with not enough aircraft coming from the RAF to fill the existing carriers, it had always fallen victim to ships considered to be needed more urgently
Such a vessel would be ideal for supporting a hunting group looking for a commerce raider, as its aircraft could cover a far greater area than the cruisers usually assigned to that task. It would also be an ideal support for high value convoys in dangerous waters, and ideally suited to task force support which did not merit the use of a fleet carrier. It was intended such a ship would be of similar cost to a cruiser, and as such could be risked in areas when a fleet carrier would be considered too valuable to risk
Given that the displacement of the fleet carrier was around 25,000t, the first studies of the CVL were around half this. As the vessel was expected to be used and risked as a cruiser, it was important that cost be kept to a minimum , and corners could be cut in a way that wasn't considered sensible for the fleet carrier. The capacity was to be around 25 planes. A number of studies and proposals were investigated, and these slowly consolidated around a proposed ship.
This would displace about 12,500t, and carry 25 aircraft, with space allowed for reasonable maintenance work (as hunting groups were often away from base support for long periods). This would fit in with the displacement limits, and some hope was entertained that small carriers in the 10,000 - 12,000t range might be exclude in future (as they had been until the London treaty), in which case this ship would serve as a model for a slightly smaller ship. Considerable agonising had been done of the fitting of a TDS, as it was felt that the usage of such a ship was such that a torpedo from a submarine would be one of the likely threats. However it was extremely difficult to fit a useful TDS into such a small vessel. A solution was proposed that basically solved the problem by going around it; instead of a TDS, the ship would be well subdivided, and drums would be installed into spaces to provide bouyancy in case of underwater damage. Such a system was planned to be fitted to liners marked down as Auxilliary cruisers. To aid the ships survival, the engine and boiler rooms would be split so one torpedo wouldn't take out both.
In order to keep the displacement down, as well as the cost, it was decided that the ship would only have minimal armour; sufficient for splinter protection except over the magazines where a box would be fitted. It was not expected that a CVL would be used in an area of high air threat - that was, after all, what fleet carriers were for - except in an emergency, and like cruisers performance and capability were more important than protection.
To reduce costs and manning requirements, the ship would not carry a heavy AA armament, instead it would carry 3 x 8 2 pdr systems for self defence.
Since the ship would have to work with cruisers and the fleet, a modified cruiser propulsion plant was proposed that would give a speed of about 29kt.
The Admiralty was still worried about the carriers existing or planned by the USA and Japan. The USA had 2 very large converted carriers, one new carrier (Ranger) coming into service this year and 2 more new designs starting in 1934. All of these carried more planes than Ark Royal would (although the FAA were somewhat disbelieving of the number of operational planes as opposed to just planes carried). The Japanese again had 2 huge conversions, one smaller new carrier and another being laid down this year. To counter this the RN only really had 2 smaller conversions, and one new carrier being laid down shortly. They wanted more new build, and after considerable negotiations with the Treasury, they got funding for the new 'trade protection' ship and a repeat Ark Royal
HMS Illustrious would be laid down in May 1935, to complete in July 1938
HMS Colussus (the new, smaller carrier) would be laid down in June 1935 to commission in November 1937
The first and most important business for the FAA was the laying down of the Ark Royal. The new, purpose built carrier had been waited for so long that in some quarters it was almost mythical. Longer term actions were mainly to do with the support and infrastructure of the FAA, which were seen as quite inadequate in view of the expansion in both size and capability expected in the next few years.
What was needed to be done was fairly obvious, although there was, as expected, some dragging of feet among the battleship Admirals. However the new independence and coming equipment gained for the FAA had given those closely concerned with it a sense of optimism that managed to at least find ways around the more restrictive practises being proposed.
The most obvious requirement was for more pilots, and in particular senior pilots. In the past, a small number of naval pilots had been supplemented by RAF pilots, but this was not going to last for long. Accordingly arrangements were made to allow a considerable expansion of the RN pilot training program. Since the increased importance of naval aviation that was coming made it clear more prominence would need to be given to more senior air-aware staff, it was also felt that a better career path for pilots would be necessary. Unfortunately many of the officers who would have made admirable senior officers of this type were now serving in the RAF, having left the RN in 1918; however while it would take time, the process could at least be started. A number of the more flexible senior officers had expressed interest in learning much more about naval aviation and the detailed possibilities it offered, and arrangements were made to develop and include an air staff officer into the staff of the senior admirals.
There was also a considerable exchange of information at lower levels with the USN. While the senior officers in the USN often had issues with the RN, it had been found that aviators liked to talk shop, and getting a few drinks into a US pilot on a hospitality visit was a very good way of comparing tactics and training. As a result some things that the RAF had apparently found 'too difficult', such as over-water navigation and fast strikes were put back onto the training syllabus.
While the new aircraft were looked forward to with considerable anticipation, they wouldn't be ready for some time, so the main aims of the FAA were deemed to be training to increase the pool of skilled pilots (and supporting engineering staff), and examining and testing concepts and tactics that would be possible once the new planes arrived. They would also look at the defensive problem posed by aircraft with the capabilities of those being designed - after all, once the RN deployed planes like those, foreign powers were certain to try and match or exceed them, and it was unclear that the current defensive measure for the fleet could cope with them.
On the construction side, the current effort was finishing the design of the Ark Royal so as not to delay her start. It was still hoped to persuade the treasury that the continuing building of carriers by the Americans and the Japanese meant that more should be ordered, but in the meantime development work shifted to the concept of the Trade Protection carrier, or light carrier as it came to be known.
There were of course issues with the allowed displacement under the London Naval treaty. This allowed the RN 135,000t of carriers. The existing carriers could be discarded at any time, but they still couldn't build all they wanted to. This was a continuing problem due to the global commitments of the navy. The current design was hoped to come in at around 24,000t. Building 5 of these would allow one additional, smaller carrier in the range 12,000t - 15 ,000t, or building 4 would allow 3 smaller carriers (once the existing ones had been scrapped). The current proposal was for a minimum of 4 fleet carriers; this allowed one to be deployed in each main area (Home, Med and the Far East), while allowing for one to be unavailable due to maintenance and refit. If a fifth fleet was built, this allowed a second to be sent to whichever area was under the most threat. The final smaller carrier would normally be used for training, but it would also be available either for deployment or to relieve a fleet carrier in a lower threat area. It was hoped that something more suitable could be done when the talks came up for renewal.
The idea of a smaller carrier for use on the trade routes and to cover commerce raiders had been considered for many years, but with not enough aircraft coming from the RAF to fill the existing carriers, it had always fallen victim to ships considered to be needed more urgently
Such a vessel would be ideal for supporting a hunting group looking for a commerce raider, as its aircraft could cover a far greater area than the cruisers usually assigned to that task. It would also be an ideal support for high value convoys in dangerous waters, and ideally suited to task force support which did not merit the use of a fleet carrier. It was intended such a ship would be of similar cost to a cruiser, and as such could be risked in areas when a fleet carrier would be considered too valuable to risk
Given that the displacement of the fleet carrier was around 25,000t, the first studies of the CVL were around half this. As the vessel was expected to be used and risked as a cruiser, it was important that cost be kept to a minimum , and corners could be cut in a way that wasn't considered sensible for the fleet carrier. The capacity was to be around 25 planes. A number of studies and proposals were investigated, and these slowly consolidated around a proposed ship.
This would displace about 12,500t, and carry 25 aircraft, with space allowed for reasonable maintenance work (as hunting groups were often away from base support for long periods). This would fit in with the displacement limits, and some hope was entertained that small carriers in the 10,000 - 12,000t range might be exclude in future (as they had been until the London treaty), in which case this ship would serve as a model for a slightly smaller ship. Considerable agonising had been done of the fitting of a TDS, as it was felt that the usage of such a ship was such that a torpedo from a submarine would be one of the likely threats. However it was extremely difficult to fit a useful TDS into such a small vessel. A solution was proposed that basically solved the problem by going around it; instead of a TDS, the ship would be well subdivided, and drums would be installed into spaces to provide bouyancy in case of underwater damage. Such a system was planned to be fitted to liners marked down as Auxilliary cruisers. To aid the ships survival, the engine and boiler rooms would be split so one torpedo wouldn't take out both.
In order to keep the displacement down, as well as the cost, it was decided that the ship would only have minimal armour; sufficient for splinter protection except over the magazines where a box would be fitted. It was not expected that a CVL would be used in an area of high air threat - that was, after all, what fleet carriers were for - except in an emergency, and like cruisers performance and capability were more important than protection.
To reduce costs and manning requirements, the ship would not carry a heavy AA armament, instead it would carry 3 x 8 2 pdr systems for self defence.
Since the ship would have to work with cruisers and the fleet, a modified cruiser propulsion plant was proposed that would give a speed of about 29kt.
The Admiralty was still worried about the carriers existing or planned by the USA and Japan. The USA had 2 very large converted carriers, one new carrier (Ranger) coming into service this year and 2 more new designs starting in 1934. All of these carried more planes than Ark Royal would (although the FAA were somewhat disbelieving of the number of operational planes as opposed to just planes carried). The Japanese again had 2 huge conversions, one smaller new carrier and another being laid down this year. To counter this the RN only really had 2 smaller conversions, and one new carrier being laid down shortly. They wanted more new build, and after considerable negotiations with the Treasury, they got funding for the new 'trade protection' ship and a repeat Ark Royal
HMS Illustrious would be laid down in May 1935, to complete in July 1938
HMS Colussus (the new, smaller carrier) would be laid down in June 1935 to commission in November 1937
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With this building programme could the Navy still get away with ordering the fleet air arm support and maintenance ship HMS Unicorn, giving them an extra and armoured light carrier exempt from the treaty limits? Why was it exempt? Because it was not build for the sole and exclusive purpose of operating aircraft. Apparently recieving aircraft for depot level maintenance from and flying them off to frountline ships didn't count as operating them. As this was likely to be a high value target she had an armoured deck and was abel to operate her own aircraft. In my opinion this ship dosent get the credit she deserves, she was used as a light fleet carrier in 1943, went on to support the British pacific fleet in 1945 and kept the light fleet carriers of Korea supplied through out the Korean war. At one point she even closed to the Korean shore and engaged enemy targets with her guns. After returning from Korea she paid off into the reserve and despite recieving a refit later was sent to the breakers having achieved all her designers could have hoped for and more 20 some years earlier. In my opinion she gave more value for money than any of the armoured fleet carriers. What could have been achieved if she had been more than a one off design?
The navy didnt realise they needed a full-blown maintenance ship until after the experience gained in the Ethiopia patrols, which hasnt happenned yet
When they do, they may well just decide to build another CLV and use it as a workshop, its what they did quite successfully in OTL. IN practice a maintenance ship of that capability is a luxury until the Pacific blows up, as until then they are in fairly easy range of land based workshops.
Actually Unicorn wasnt treaty-exempt, they spent some time agonising over it (it was suggested they declare it as a battleship to get around the carrier limits!), but in the end displacement limits for carriers were removed and they just went ahead and built it.
1934 (cont)
This year also led to some progress in the development of the new aircraft.
First, there was a surprise when another aircraft company offered a proposal for the new dive bomber, Martin-Baker. The company had not been one of the ones 'approved' by the unofficial Air Ministry tender system, and so they had approached the Admiralty directly with a design. They also pointed out that Hawker were very busy, and even starting later they could supply a prototype for testing just as fast as Blackburn. The Admiralty was interested (they were looking at the advantages of building up a number of aircraft companies skilled in producing naval aircraft, as it was realised that only the largest companies would be in a position to build any type of aircraft), and so agreed that they would fund one aircraft
Secondly the rather technically complex issue of what type of 0.5" gun should be fitted to the fighter (and to the dive bomber, which would carry 2 in the wings). The USN was intending to use the Browning 0.50 M2, but the FAA was not terribly impressed with its performance. The 0.5" Vickers was another contender (and had the advantage of being a British gun), although again the performance wasnt exemplary. In the end it was decided that the initial fit would be the Vickers 0.5" (the FAA were still worried that the .303 favoured by the RAF wouldn't be enough to shoot planes down on the way in, which, as their airfields had a greater tendency to sink than those of the RAF, was rather important to them).
Research did continue for a better solution, coordinating with similar RAF work.
There were worries from some of the aircraft manufacturers about the availability of the untried Hercules engine (apparently the Bristol board were not that keen on it, although the Admiralty was determined to keep pressure on the development), particularly Gloster. They suggested, since they were contracted to produce 2 prototypes (one with each type of wing armament), that they could use the Bristol Perseus for one of the planes, in case the Hercules had problems. Of course it would produce much less power, but it was the same diameter and the plane could be weighted to allow the new engine to just be a replacement, so no time would be lost. The Admiralty agreed to this, as it would produce the first prototype in the shortest possible time, and even if the Hercules was delayed would allow testing to continue without delay.
A somewhat ironic situation arose when the RAF sent out a requirement for a radial-powered fighter for use in hot climates and from rough airfields. The RN did have a certain amount of pleasure in pointing out that a de-navalised version of their proposed fighter would in fact be ideal for this, since a plane designed for the harsh treatment of carrier landings would be very suitable for unprepared strips. While the irony of a naval aircraft being supplied for the RAF wasn't lost on the RAF either, in the end it actually went some way to restoring the relationship after the internecine warfare of the previous year. The RAF agreed to partially fund the Navy's plane (in the end, they RN funded the plane and the RAF paid for much of the equipment development), and it was agreed that once flight trials had completed the RAF would select one of the planes for their use. The removal of the naval-only items would them allow either higher performance, better armament of more protection, whichever was felt more important at the time. If the two services selected the same plane, the initial deliveries would be to the RN, then a joint production line could built it in the two required versions.
This year also led to some progress in the development of the new aircraft.
First, there was a surprise when another aircraft company offered a proposal for the new dive bomber, Martin-Baker. The company had not been one of the ones 'approved' by the unofficial Air Ministry tender system, and so they had approached the Admiralty directly with a design. They also pointed out that Hawker were very busy, and even starting later they could supply a prototype for testing just as fast as Blackburn. The Admiralty was interested (they were looking at the advantages of building up a number of aircraft companies skilled in producing naval aircraft, as it was realised that only the largest companies would be in a position to build any type of aircraft), and so agreed that they would fund one aircraft
Secondly the rather technically complex issue of what type of 0.5" gun should be fitted to the fighter (and to the dive bomber, which would carry 2 in the wings). The USN was intending to use the Browning 0.50 M2, but the FAA was not terribly impressed with its performance. The 0.5" Vickers was another contender (and had the advantage of being a British gun), although again the performance wasnt exemplary. In the end it was decided that the initial fit would be the Vickers 0.5" (the FAA were still worried that the .303 favoured by the RAF wouldn't be enough to shoot planes down on the way in, which, as their airfields had a greater tendency to sink than those of the RAF, was rather important to them).
Research did continue for a better solution, coordinating with similar RAF work.
There were worries from some of the aircraft manufacturers about the availability of the untried Hercules engine (apparently the Bristol board were not that keen on it, although the Admiralty was determined to keep pressure on the development), particularly Gloster. They suggested, since they were contracted to produce 2 prototypes (one with each type of wing armament), that they could use the Bristol Perseus for one of the planes, in case the Hercules had problems. Of course it would produce much less power, but it was the same diameter and the plane could be weighted to allow the new engine to just be a replacement, so no time would be lost. The Admiralty agreed to this, as it would produce the first prototype in the shortest possible time, and even if the Hercules was delayed would allow testing to continue without delay.
A somewhat ironic situation arose when the RAF sent out a requirement for a radial-powered fighter for use in hot climates and from rough airfields. The RN did have a certain amount of pleasure in pointing out that a de-navalised version of their proposed fighter would in fact be ideal for this, since a plane designed for the harsh treatment of carrier landings would be very suitable for unprepared strips. While the irony of a naval aircraft being supplied for the RAF wasn't lost on the RAF either, in the end it actually went some way to restoring the relationship after the internecine warfare of the previous year. The RAF agreed to partially fund the Navy's plane (in the end, they RN funded the plane and the RAF paid for much of the equipment development), and it was agreed that once flight trials had completed the RAF would select one of the planes for their use. The removal of the naval-only items would them allow either higher performance, better armament of more protection, whichever was felt more important at the time. If the two services selected the same plane, the initial deliveries would be to the RN, then a joint production line could built it in the two required versions.
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Now this is British understatement at it's finest.
You know, if the RAF starts having problems with their airfields starting to sink, what territory are we in then ? Tsar bomba county ?
Probably not without a lot of alterations, the RN torpedo was quite long and usualy required a plane to be designed to take it (or a very large plane)
A torpedo bomber must have 15 feet of uninterupted space on the centerline, ground clearance, the ability to carry 2000 pounds of ordinance into the air, fly a specified range to target, deliver the weapon within launch parameters, and hopefully RTB. Could the Henley perform this mission? Testing against logical alternatives would determine this. Furthermore, the original Henley was not a dive bomber, a class which was contrary to RAF doctrine. The "Americanized" Henley also is equipped with Dauntless style perforated dive brakes to lend it some assistance in the performance of this mission. MS Paint does not guarantee performance of such equipment in the real, or alternate world, nor does it guarantee that the wings don't fall off in pull-out. The AH Henley was intended for service with the "Orion" or twin-Perseus engine of 2100 hp. The artist, and the Justair Corporation will not assume liability in the case of alteration or mis-use.
Sior
Banned
The Beardmore Engineering Co. also offered a scaled-up version of the Beardmore-Farquhar machine gun, chambered for .5 Vickers (12.7x81 mm) ammunition. It was similar in external appearance and design to the rifle-caliber weapon of the same name, but was appropriately bigger and heavier. A .50 caliber Beardmore-Farquhar machine gun used 52- or 29-round flat pan magazines (with two or single layer design, respectively), or 10-round box magazines. Mounted on lightweight tripod, .50 caliber Beardmore-Farquhar machine gun weighted just short of 20 kg (less ammunition) and was 152 cm long. It was widely promoted during 1930s as a “lightweight anti-tank machine gun”, but found no buyers.
Beardmore-Farquhar light machine gun used same gas-operated, rotary bolt action with intermediate spring buffer as the Fraquhar-Hill self-loading rifle, with major changes being relocation of the hammer unit from the bottom to the top of receiver, selective fire trigger (with semi- and full-auto modes of fire) and position of the feed unit. Air-cooled barrel was of quick detachable type. Feed was from top-mounted flat pan magazines. Alternate (possibly back-up) feed option was to use specially designed detachable box magazines with 5-round capacity, which were installed horizontally above and to the left of the receiver, with no major problems to convert to belt fed. Beardmore-Farquhar light machine gun was provided with wooden pistol grip and shoulder stock. Lightweight bipod was fitted below the barrel.
1935
At the start of 1935, most interest in the RN was centred on the design of a follow-on improved fleet carrier, and the waiting for the planes in development to fly at the end of the year, hopefully with the new Hercules engine. So far, progress was very promising, although Blackburn's dive bomber was progressing more slowly that was liked, and Hawkers workload was threatening to do the same to the Henly.
The good news was that the Fairy Swordfish was finished, and deliveries were starting. While it didn't have the performance the FAA was looking for from the other new aircraft, it was considerably better than their current planes, and was looking to be a good, reliable carrier plane. A specification was therefore sent out for its replacement at the beginning of the year, this time for a monoplane built around the Hercules. It was expected that a much higher performance aircraft would be available in around 3-4 years.
In order to utilise the higher performance of the new TBR plane, it was decided to look into the possibility of improving the current airborne torpedo. Currently the Swordfish couldn't carry a much heavier weapon, or drop it an faster than the current design allowed, but there were obvious advantages in a faster and higher drop speed, and at the same time the overall performance would be looked at.
However world affairs soon turned the attention of the planning staff to a number of different topics that would prove to be eventually very significant.
The first of these occurred at the beginning of March, when a letter was received from Air Marshal Dowding concerning a recent trial to detect an aircraft by means of radio beams. As a result of this, some urgent conversations were held first with Dowding, then with the boffin concerned, Watson-Watt. The results, and the possibilities, astounded the FAA and the navy - this was what they had been looking for as a way of implementing a successful fleet defence. The FAA in particular felt that if this system could be successfully developed, it would solve the still-intractable problems they had been wrestling with. They hadn't really managed a good solution to the problem of enemy raid interception, Basically the enemy arrived too close too soon, especially in bad weather. One of the reasons they had specified a new fighter with a high speed was to help with a faster interception, but excercises had already shown that this wasn't going to solve the problem.
RDF would both solve the problem of weather, and give sufficient range to allow the bombers to be intercepted before they could get in range. As a bonus, the still tricky problem of getting single-seat fighters back would be fixed by tracking and controlling them back, allowing them to intercept even further out. The FAA recommended that RDF should be given the highest priority for technical development (rather unnecessarily as the RAF was drooling equally hard at the possibilities). A section was set up at the navies signal school to evaluate the results of the RAF development, to proceed in parallel with a system for the navy, and to design new operational tactics offered by the new system.
In retrospect, this discovery was well-timed.
On the 16th March Adolf Hitler denounced the disarmament clause of the Versailles treaty, and that the german army would be expanded to 36 divisions. While the announcement of a bigger army didnt worry the navy directly, the announcement of the Luftwaffe certainly did. The air threat to the RN in the North Sea and eastern coastal waters had just gone from a minor nuisance to a potentially major threat.
As a result a major review was undertaken with some urgency as to the state of the fleets air defences, both with and without air support. This was spilt into 3 areas - fighter cover, HA air defence gunfire, and close in gunfire.
Fighter support was considered inadequate at present, due to the very limited number and performance of the planes. Given the steps already taken, it was felt little more could be done on improving this until the new aircraft were in service, although there were big issues as to numbers and control of them . Numbers would be a function of the numbers and availability of a carrier, and a number of excercises were planned to work on the most efficient number to use. As to control, it was already know that it was inadequate and subject to the weather, although it was pointed out that poor weather would help ships hide as well as make it difficult to spot an air raid.
Even more hope was placed in the RDF experiments
The position of HA gunfire was felt to be in a better state. A steady and significant improvement in capability was already in progress, and when completed was felt adequate to break up the mass high level formations that were the only real threat to ships. While it was recognised that only limited numbers would actually be shot down, the main effect would be to stop them actually hitting anything.
The biggest issue was with the close range defences. While the multiple pompom was considered a good weapon, it had been a long while in development, and supply was still inadequate. The problems had been brought into greater clarity by the exercises over the last couple of years, with the increases emphasis on dive bombing. Before these it had been felt that the system was adequate, but a number of issues had been shown up in the additional exercises. Due to the existing shortage, and the problems associated with speeding up production that were already being encountered, a decision was made to look at a program of improvements that would have the minimal impact on production while improving the capability of the system, with particular attention to the 4 and 8 barrel versions. A report was requested, with recommendations and input from the firms involved, within 6 months
At the start of 1935, most interest in the RN was centred on the design of a follow-on improved fleet carrier, and the waiting for the planes in development to fly at the end of the year, hopefully with the new Hercules engine. So far, progress was very promising, although Blackburn's dive bomber was progressing more slowly that was liked, and Hawkers workload was threatening to do the same to the Henly.
The good news was that the Fairy Swordfish was finished, and deliveries were starting. While it didn't have the performance the FAA was looking for from the other new aircraft, it was considerably better than their current planes, and was looking to be a good, reliable carrier plane. A specification was therefore sent out for its replacement at the beginning of the year, this time for a monoplane built around the Hercules. It was expected that a much higher performance aircraft would be available in around 3-4 years.
In order to utilise the higher performance of the new TBR plane, it was decided to look into the possibility of improving the current airborne torpedo. Currently the Swordfish couldn't carry a much heavier weapon, or drop it an faster than the current design allowed, but there were obvious advantages in a faster and higher drop speed, and at the same time the overall performance would be looked at.
However world affairs soon turned the attention of the planning staff to a number of different topics that would prove to be eventually very significant.
The first of these occurred at the beginning of March, when a letter was received from Air Marshal Dowding concerning a recent trial to detect an aircraft by means of radio beams. As a result of this, some urgent conversations were held first with Dowding, then with the boffin concerned, Watson-Watt. The results, and the possibilities, astounded the FAA and the navy - this was what they had been looking for as a way of implementing a successful fleet defence. The FAA in particular felt that if this system could be successfully developed, it would solve the still-intractable problems they had been wrestling with. They hadn't really managed a good solution to the problem of enemy raid interception, Basically the enemy arrived too close too soon, especially in bad weather. One of the reasons they had specified a new fighter with a high speed was to help with a faster interception, but excercises had already shown that this wasn't going to solve the problem.
RDF would both solve the problem of weather, and give sufficient range to allow the bombers to be intercepted before they could get in range. As a bonus, the still tricky problem of getting single-seat fighters back would be fixed by tracking and controlling them back, allowing them to intercept even further out. The FAA recommended that RDF should be given the highest priority for technical development (rather unnecessarily as the RAF was drooling equally hard at the possibilities). A section was set up at the navies signal school to evaluate the results of the RAF development, to proceed in parallel with a system for the navy, and to design new operational tactics offered by the new system.
In retrospect, this discovery was well-timed.
On the 16th March Adolf Hitler denounced the disarmament clause of the Versailles treaty, and that the german army would be expanded to 36 divisions. While the announcement of a bigger army didnt worry the navy directly, the announcement of the Luftwaffe certainly did. The air threat to the RN in the North Sea and eastern coastal waters had just gone from a minor nuisance to a potentially major threat.
As a result a major review was undertaken with some urgency as to the state of the fleets air defences, both with and without air support. This was spilt into 3 areas - fighter cover, HA air defence gunfire, and close in gunfire.
Fighter support was considered inadequate at present, due to the very limited number and performance of the planes. Given the steps already taken, it was felt little more could be done on improving this until the new aircraft were in service, although there were big issues as to numbers and control of them . Numbers would be a function of the numbers and availability of a carrier, and a number of excercises were planned to work on the most efficient number to use. As to control, it was already know that it was inadequate and subject to the weather, although it was pointed out that poor weather would help ships hide as well as make it difficult to spot an air raid.
Even more hope was placed in the RDF experiments
The position of HA gunfire was felt to be in a better state. A steady and significant improvement in capability was already in progress, and when completed was felt adequate to break up the mass high level formations that were the only real threat to ships. While it was recognised that only limited numbers would actually be shot down, the main effect would be to stop them actually hitting anything.
The biggest issue was with the close range defences. While the multiple pompom was considered a good weapon, it had been a long while in development, and supply was still inadequate. The problems had been brought into greater clarity by the exercises over the last couple of years, with the increases emphasis on dive bombing. Before these it had been felt that the system was adequate, but a number of issues had been shown up in the additional exercises. Due to the existing shortage, and the problems associated with speeding up production that were already being encountered, a decision was made to look at a program of improvements that would have the minimal impact on production while improving the capability of the system, with particular attention to the 4 and 8 barrel versions. A report was requested, with recommendations and input from the firms involved, within 6 months
If the RN takes closer look at Radar maybe they also have rangefinding and fire direction RADAR's mounted by WW2 ?
IIRC they only got that idea after inspecting the wreck of the Graf Spee.
they may be a little ahead in that area, but the Gunnery department was always conservative.
they will have better air detection radar earlier, though, some time was wasted due to poor coordination, this tiem we have the FAA pushing t hard, and a better idea of the risks caused by modern aircraft that it will help solve.
Many of the small changes are being driven by a better appreciation of the dangers, which were masked to some extent in OTL due to the RAF.
Perfect! A dream come true ... a second Ark Royal. Not only that, but more than likely earlier and improved Indomitables to follow. It will be very interesting how this will play out. This is a classic example of how a time line alteration of a smaller proportion will have a very large impact on the war.
An early success by the carriers of the Royal Navy, even if not on the level of a Pearl Harbour would send shock waves through the navies of the world. i would expect that not only the Americans and the Japanese would be ratcheting up their programs, but others such as the Germans, Italians and the French would begin to kick start their naval aviation programs as well.
There may even be the possibility of smaller navies such as the South Americans beginning to take rudimentary first steps toward carrier development.
An excellent thread. Keep it up. I am subscribed.
An early success by the carriers of the Royal Navy, even if not on the level of a Pearl Harbour would send shock waves through the navies of the world. i would expect that not only the Americans and the Japanese would be ratcheting up their programs, but others such as the Germans, Italians and the French would begin to kick start their naval aviation programs as well.
There may even be the possibility of smaller navies such as the South Americans beginning to take rudimentary first steps toward carrier development.
An excellent thread. Keep it up. I am subscribed.
Given the heightened interest in Radar on the part of the FFA and their improved ability to actually act upon, I think it's likely that there will be some influence in the thinking of the Navy as a whole, the more precision you get the more people will ask about alternative applications.
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