The Whale has Wings

[Just Leo]

First of all, I have to thank Astrodragon for mentioning a radar development name. Decades ago, I read of a radar engineer developing the British AI MkIX, who was shot down by friendly fire while testing, in a Beaufighter. No name was ever forthcoming. By cross-checking several names from your name, I came up with Alan Blumlein, an engineer who was developing both the AIMkIX and the H2S, which used related components. However, he was flying in a Halifax bomber, testing H2S, when a Merlin threw a valve due to a faulty repair and burned the wing off the plane. The Ministry established new guidelines about carrying parachutes for civilian contractors, and, like many other things, declared the incident secret. Another cover-up, and another reason British late- and post-war radar development was so abysmal.

You're stealing Audacity's name. Oh,well. Yours is earlier.

The use of code names for Japanese aircraft should wait for the war to begin. Knowledge of names and designations was mostly limited to something like "Type 96", and although this navy seems to notice and care, the OTL RN didn't seem to care much about Japan at all.

While it's nice to see British industry advancing on a timescale so advanced, it does have a certain ethereal quality. Installing rear-facing exhaust pipes on the Hercules engines, for example, took the whole war to accomplish, mostly because the Centaurus front-facing pipes were so damn massive that they couldn't be disregarded as a deterrent to ultimate speed. The increase in engine power only came as a bonus. Another power bonus was the use of American pressure carbs, and fuel injection. It's also time for constant-speed props to be thought of soon. Roy Fedden again.

 

[Astrodragon]

First of all, I have to thank Astrodragon for mentioning a radar development name. Decades ago, I read of a radar engineer developing the British AI MkIX, who was shot down by friendly fire while testing, in a Beaufighter. No name was ever forthcoming. By cross-checking several names from your name, I came up with Alan Blumlein, an engineer who was developing both the AIMkIX and the H2S, which used related components. However, he was flying in a Halifax bomber, testing H2S, when a Merlin threw a valve due to a faulty repair and burned the wing off the plane. The Ministry established new guidelines about carrying parachutes for civilian contractors, and, like many other things, declared the incident secret. Another cover-up, and another reason British late- and post-war radar development was so abysmal.

You're stealing Audacity's name. Oh,well. Yours is earlier.

The use of code names for Japanese aircraft should wait for the war to begin. Knowledge of names and designations was mostly limited to something like "Type 96", and although this navy seems to notice and care, the OTL RN didn't seem to care much about Japan at all.

While it's nice to see British industry advancing on a timescale so advanced, it does have a certain ethereal quality. Installing rear-facing exhaust pipes on the Hercules engines, for example, took the whole war to accomplish, mostly because the Centaurus front-facing pipes were so damn massive that they couldn't be disregarded as a deterrent to ultimate speed. The increase in engine power only came as a bonus. Another power bonus was the use of American pressure carbs, and fuel injection. It's also time for constant-speed props to be thought of soon. Roy Fedden again.

The code names is a bit early, but if I just use a type number a lot of people wont recognise the plane, so its a little bit of fiat to make reading this earlier.
They havent got the Centaurus at all right yet However much better installaitions of the radial was not nly possible, but offered - but rejected by the Air Ministry who seemd to have a fixation over 'plug-in' engines even when this affected performance.
Pressure carbs and fuel injection may well be as OTL, the FAA doesnt have any drivers to make them needed.
Constant speed props will be trialled a bit early - theye were available, and there was no reason to delay so long except, again, the Air Minsitry.

Actually, not much is advanced a lot over OTL - the radar, for example, is only a bit early, because the FAA is desperate for it, and so is pushing so that some of the slow development is speeded up a little. We still wont see centimetric radar any earlier, which was the big game changer. The engines , apart from the Hercules, arent early either - I was surprised when I checked just how fast RR got the Griffon flying. However the Exe and Taurus will not be developed - there simply isnt a need for them, theor role is already filled by the Hercules. So Bristol have some more engineers available to allocate to the Centaurus, and RR to the Griffon. The sleeve valve issue also had to be fixed, but as they started earlier its done earlier.
Its surprising how 6-12 months earlier application of ideas and things which were already around and suggested in OTL makes things go a lot better, but a lot of things got delayed when the war intervened - that little bit of extra time means they are started or develpopment before teh tendency of war to freeze and canalise development.

And its sad how many of the things I described were wanted, desired, and really needed, but just not pushed hard enough or allowed to wander through endless civil service paperwork....

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

Has the Navy heard about Whitles work yet, and if so have they offered any extra funding to him?

 

[Astrodragon]

Has the Navy heard about Whitles work yet, and if so have they offered any extra funding to him?

I'm sure they have heard of it, as the FAA and RAF are comitted to coordinating their requirements to avoid duplication.
However while they find it interesting, at the moment jets look unsuitable for carrier use, so they wont be funding any of his work. Once a working jet is actually flying they will take another look, but jets simply arent suitable for the pre/early WW2 carriers.

 

[Just Leo]

While it is true that Japanese Type number designations were not very descriptive, one aircraft was known more often by it that by it's code name, the Zeke, coming soon.

 

[Astrodragon]

You're stealing Audacity's name. Oh,well. Yours is earlier.

I'm trying to keep to the OTL names for the types of carrier where possible, it reduces confusion. And I'm lazy

 

[Astrodragon]

Does anyone know a good way of working out the performance of an airplane based (if roughly) on an OTL one? I intend to give a summary of the RN/FAA position at the start of the war, and while I have a good idea of the ships, the capability of the new fighter and divebombers is a bit more probematical...

 

[rip89]

Does anyone know a good way of working out the performance of an airplane based (if roughly) on an OTL one? I intend to give a summary of the RN/FAA position at the start of the war, and while I have a good idea of the ships, the capability of the new fighter and divebombers is a bit more probematical...

I'm no expert but if you look at engine power and weight of these ATL planes then look for equivalents from OTL you should get a rough idea, of course I might be totally wrong. Nice updates by the way, I get the feeling that both the KM and RM are in for a world of hurt once the war starts, also the FAA should be able to give good CAS support to troops anywhere near a coast.

 

[Gingerdave]

Blackburn Blackadder?

On a more serious note, does the work done on the Hispano 20mm mean that the RAF will have (working) cannon-armed aircraft in any Alt-Battle of Britain? If they do, the Luftwaffe will suffer significantly more casualties than OTL.

 

[Astrodragon]

Blackburn Blackadder?

On a more serious note, does the work done on the Hispano 20mm mean that the RAF will have (working) cannon-armed aircraft in any Alt-Battle of Britain? If they do, the Luftwaffe will suffer significantly more casualties than OTL.

Yes, it does. I still havent decided if they will have sorted out the high-altitude icing issue (it isnt nearly as big a problem for the FAA, as their intercepts tend to be at lower altitudes). The Luftwaffe is also going to run into cannon-armed Goshawks too Aren't they lucky...

And given the performance of Blackburn as aircraft deigners and manufactuers, the Blackadder seemed so suitable...

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

And given the performance of Blackburn as aircraft deigners and manufactuers, the Blackadder seemed so suitable...

Presumably all Blackburns designers stuffed pencils up their noses, had unusual choices in headgear, and would only say whibble. Meanwhile the apprentice had a cunning plan.

Why the Whale has wings? Sounds like a flying submarine.

 

[Astrodragon]

Presumably all Blackburns designers stuffed pencils up their noses, had unusual choices in headgear, and would only say whibble. Meanwhile the apprentice had a cunning plan.

Why the Whale has wings? Sounds like a flying submarine.

Its going to be a quote in a speech by Churchill in his role as First Lord after the Wilhelmshaven raid.

"It is said that a war between a great land power, such as Germany, and a great naval power such as ourselves is a battle between an Elephant and a Whale. Yesterday, the airmen of the Fleet Air Arm showed Hitler that this Whale has wings!"

 

[Astrodragon]

As a result of working my way in detail through the runup to the war, I've made a few changes to the introductory bit at the beginning. This is now how it looks:

Midnight, 31st December 1939.


The ships comprised the strongest force the Royal Navy had deployed in the North Sea since the First World War - 3 aircraft carriers, 3 battlecruisers, 6 cruisers and 16 destroyers, illuminated by a 3/4 full moon.

"Very well, gentlemen, the plan goes ahead without any changes from yesterdays briefing. To summarise, the first wave will be 42 Swordfish from Formidable, Victorious and Courageous, plus 30 Dive bombers. Flight leaders will carry flares to illuminate the harbour. Half of the Swordfish will carry torpedoes, the other half 500lb bombs. You will launch at 0045, with an expected attack time of 0230.

The Second wave will be 30 Swordfish, 12 with torpedoes, the rest with 500lb bombs again. You will launch at 0120, with an expected attack time of 0300.

The second waves is expected to land back on board by 0430. If you have a problem that stops you from landing, don't hang around - signal the guard destroyer and ditch, we won't be waiting around.

Recovery will be by beacon and IFF - remember, don't turn your IFF on until you are on your way home after the attack, we don't know if the Germans can detect it, but lets not take any chances. Only flight commanders are authorised to use their radios until the attack starts -after which, we expect them to realise we have arrived!"

There was a considerable amount of grins and muffled laughter at that, and the Commander was glad to see his crews in good spirits. Not that he had doubted that, but it was always good to end a briefing on a good note.

"Now, get to your planes and get ready. We've been planning this for a long time, and this is our first chance to hit the German fleet with a heavy blow. Go and make the FAA proud of you!"

It was the 31st December 1939. What was officially known as Operation Cormorant, and (very unofficially) to the Fleet Air Arm as the Happy Hogmany Raid was about to begin.

 

[Faralis]

Blackburn produced a lot of rubbish (the only good plane they ever built was the Buccaneer....).

The Firebrand was too a good design, and they started producing it in OTL in 42 ... ( Blackadder ... awesome name but for reasons that have nothing to do with aircrafts )

Although you have not said anyhing about it, the butterflies in the French AF would be interesting ( I doubt things like the HS cannon would have been ignored ) although not enough to stop the fall sadly ...

8 CVs and 8 CVL by 1941 ... my inner FAAnboi is PLEASED ( plus the french one, of course )

and don´t forget that the merchant auxiliary carriers could do both things at the same time, having planes and cargo.

PD: Awesome PoD, and awesome TL, pleas keep the good work


EDIT: Nice changes to the OP while I was writing

 

[whatisinaname]

Great TL, subscribed

 

[Astrodragon]

The Firebrand was too a good design, and they started producing it in OTL in 42 ... ( Blackadder ... awesome name but for reasons that have nothing to do with aircrafts )

Although you have not said anyhing about it, the butterflies in the French AF would be interesting ( I doubt things like the HS cannon would have been ignored ) although not enough to stop the fall sadly ...

8 CVs and 8 CVL by 1941 ... my inner FAAnboi is PLEASED ( plus the french one, of course )

and don´t forget that the merchant auxiliary carriers could do both things at the same time, having planes and cargo.

PD: Awesome PoD, and awesome TL, pleas keep the good work


EDIT: Nice changes to the OP while I was writing

While I'm sure the French will have been informed as to what the British did to the cannon, sadly I cant see fitting them will make much if any difference to France falling.

I havent got around yet to checking if the idea of a MAC was actually prewar or not. Pretty much everything else I've done is, but I think MAC ships were an emergency response to the lack of escort carriers. once someone thnks of them, they are an obvious conversion to have done in US yards. The U-boats are going to have a much rougher experience this time around anyway, and that has all sorts of butterflies affecting what Britain can do.

After a bit of dithering, it looks like 7+7 in 41...but I do have the Audacious coming in 1942.....

 

[PMN1]

First of all, I have to thank Astrodragon for mentioning a radar development name. Decades ago, I read of a radar engineer developing the British AI MkIX, who was shot down by friendly fire while testing, in a Beaufighter. No name was ever forthcoming. By cross-checking several names from your name, I came up with Alan Blumlein, an engineer who was developing both the AIMkIX and the H2S, which used related components. However, he was flying in a Halifax bomber, testing H2S, when a Merlin threw a valve due to a faulty repair and burned the wing off the plane. The Ministry established new guidelines about carrying parachutes for civilian contractors, and, like many other things, declared the incident secret. Another cover-up, and another reason British late- and post-war radar development was so abysmal.

You may be thinking of Dr A C Downing, he was killed in a friendly fire accident 23rd December 1942.

 

[PMN1]

1938.


The problem of the propulsion plants had been an issue; the dockyards and turbine manufacturers were busy with the large workload of new ships, and these carriers would not have a high priority. This had been solved some years previously, however. During the mid-30's the RN had scrapped a large number of R & S class destroyers from WW1. While a few had been retained, they were considered simply too small and light for conversion to anything useful. However they had 27,000hp of turbines... As the ships were scrapped, the propulsion machinery, particularly the turbines, had been put aside in storage. It had been estimated that with some work for new parts amd boilers, and refurbishment, around 30 of these sets would be available for a relatively small cost and, more important, a small drain on manufacturing resources. By using this machinery, it was expected the cost of the ship would be under £1m, a bargain for a carrier. A single ship (HMS Audacity) was ordered in April 1938, with an expected completion of October 1939.

Intersting, when these are brought up in AltHistories, they usually end up in frigates or escort destroyers.

 

[PMN1]

Its surprising how 6-12 months earlier application of ideas and things which were already around and suggested in OTL makes things go a lot better, but a lot of things got delayed when the war intervened - ..

Not to mention the panic after Dunkirk.

 

[Astrodragon]

Intersting, when these are brought up in AltHistories, they usually end up in frigates or escort destroyers.

Some of them will. They would have about 70 sets, but some of them are probably in poor condition, so I assumed about 50. It only takes one for a CVE, and they arent going to build 50, so its likely some end up in fast escorts