The Vatican in a Communist Italy
- Thread starter Miss Teri
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It all depends on how Communist Italy forms, because if it as result of the Biennio Rosso the Pope would be mostly left alone, as, by that point, he was a self-proclaimed "prisoner in Vatican" and with little interest in actually intervening in political matters, which mostly likely means he isn't touched (although he will probably want to relocate for ideological reasons).
If this happens as result of the resistance spiraling out of control, then it is more likely Communists are going to try to get him on ideological grounds, killing the current one. A few years of unrest as result of alienation of the devoutly Catholic population that doesn't seem to ge quelled with usual methods, and the Pope may return pretty much chiosen by the Party and not by the Curia... and that will in turn cause schisms with the rest of the world.
If this happens as result of the resistance spiraling out of control, then it is more likely Communists are going to try to get him on ideological grounds, killing the current one. A few years of unrest as result of alienation of the devoutly Catholic population that doesn't seem to ge quelled with usual methods, and the Pope may return pretty much chiosen by the Party and not by the Curia... and that will in turn cause schisms with the rest of the world.
I really suspect that any Communist Italy would have to treat the Roman Catholic church and the Pope with kid gloves. That's not to say that the Church would believe that's what was happening, mind.
My guess is they reach a Concordat with the Church, where the Pope watches what he says, and the Party leaves him (mostly) alone.
Communist pressures on the College of Cardinals when it came time to elect a new Pope would be ... interesting.
If they weren't AT LEAST as accommodating to the Church as the Polish government was, they'd shoot themselves in the foot badly. IMO.
My guess is they reach a Concordat with the Church, where the Pope watches what he says, and the Party leaves him (mostly) alone.
Communist pressures on the College of Cardinals when it came time to elect a new Pope would be ... interesting.
If they weren't AT LEAST as accommodating to the Church as the Polish government was, they'd shoot themselves in the foot badly. IMO.
Maybe the pope decides that communism isn't so bad afterall? At least officially. Just another possibility. After all, the original believers did share everything they owned with one another.
(Yes, I know, it was voluntary and therefore different than Communism. Still.)
Impossible, you cannot be a christian and a communist according to the catholic church, if you decide to be both you are "automatically" excomunged
Huh. You learn something new every day. Sometimes I forget how extreme the Red Scare really was.
This is from way before the red scare, the catholic church have been strongly anti marxism since 1848
I'm sure the communists could "convince" (with a little "motivation") the pope to rescind that particular bull, in exchange for the communists leaving the Vatican alone.
No, they only way to do that is by invading the vatican, killing the pope and every possible candidate for the papacy and put some puppet in the head of the church, something that no one would do
With that particular Papal Bull, though, how would a Concordat between the communists and the Vatican work?
Maybe instead of under threat, the Vatican instead, for purposes of realpolitik, to rescind it of its own free will
The Catholic Church survived fine in Communist countries such as Poland, Lithuania, Czechoslovakia, and Hungary. I'm not sure about Cuba.
They have problems with China but here we are dealing with a different variety of Communism.
They have problems with China but here we are dealing with a different variety of Communism.