the republic of texas

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by herricks, Feb 14, 2011.

  1. herricks If you know what I mean

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Location:
    texas
    Santa Fe Expedition
    Instead of sending out the expedition on June 19,1841 the President of Texas Mirabeau Buonaparte Lamar waited until September 20,1841 to prepare the troops & better learn the route & distance of Santa Fe. In mid November 1841 Hugh McCleod’s scouts reported to him that a large Mexican Army detachment of around 1500 men under Manuel Armijo 2 miles from their position.
    McCleod sent 25 of his best riders & marksmen under Capt. William G. Lewis to distract the detachment by conducting a series of night raids against it so McCleod could lead the expedition away. After four nights of raiding Capt. Lewis had killed or wounded more than 300 Mexicans & only losing 13 men. Manuel Armijo split his troops sending all of his cavalry & 100 infantry after Capt. Lewis.
    Armijo then began a forced march to capture McCleod who was already past his position. On November 27,1841 McCleod’s rear guard informed him that Armijo’s forces were only 3 miles behind them. McCleod then set his forces up on 2 hills overlooking the ridge that Armijo was coming down. On November 28,1841 in the early morning McCleod’s 285 men opened up on Armijo’s 850 troops with grapeshot from his 6 cannon & rifle fire. By mid-morning Armijo had lost 610 troops to McCleod’s 78 troops.
    After leading Armijo’s cavalry over 50 miles from the expedition, Capt. Lewis & his 12 surviving men are killed in battle taking over 75 Mexican troops with them. On December 3,1841 Hugh McCleod marches into Santa Fe & declares himself the governor of the region.
     
  2. herricks If you know what I mean

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Location:
    texas
    Prosperity for the Republic
    After seizing control of Santa Fe, McCleod’s forces capture the gold mines around Santa Fe & begin exporting gold to Austin in early 1842. Word of gold reaches the U.S. in May 1842 & tens of thousands begin to migrate to Texas. As the immigrants enter Texas they renounce their U.S. citizenships & swear allegiance to Texas in August 1842. The 3rd Texas President Sam Houston passes the bill to enforce the 1/3 gold standard ( all miners must give 1/3 of the gold mined in the Republic of Texas to the Texas government) on September 11,1842.
    President Houston brought peace to Texas & the Indian nations of Texas & began making agreements with the Comanche leaders for them to ally themselves with Texas against Mexico in October 1842. President Houston signs the Texas-Comanche Alliance of 1843 on January 7,1843, militarily aligning Texas & the Comanche against any enemy, also allowing safe passage through Comanche land by settlers.
    On December 9,1844 Edward Burleson became the 4th President of Texas. By February 1845 the Texas treasury was estimated to be $50,000,000. President Burleson orders the regular army of the Republic of Texas to be raised to 20,000 regular & 40,000 militia soldiers after the population of Texas is estimated at 150,000 people in April 1845. On June 12,1845 Mexican mercenary Gen. Adrián Woll occupied El Paso with a force of 750 men. Pres. Burleson sent Gen. Juan Seguin with 1000 regular army troops pushed Gen. Woll out of El Paso on July 5,1845 killing over 500 Mexicans & losing only 250 troops.
    Pres. Burleson orders the construction of 40 warships to replace the 3 small ships of the second Texas Navy & named Edwin Ward Moore as the commodore of the navy in September 1845. In November 1845 U.S. Pres. James K. Polk offered to Pres. Burleson the annexation of Texas into the U.S., Pres. Burleson refused the offer. By the end of his term Pres. Burleson had created one of the largest militaries in North America.
    In December 1847 David G. Burnet became the 5th President of Texas. In June 1848 Pres. Burnet begins to send out Tejano spies into the Mexican states of the Californias, Coahuila, & Chihuahua to spy on Mexican military garrisons. In February 1849 Pres. Burnet sent former Texas president Mirabeau B. Lamar to Mexico City to meet with Mexican President José Joaquín de Herrera on having Mexico officially recognize the Republic of Texas’s independence & claimed borders, Lamar is thrown out of the country after just one day of talking. In May of 1849 Pres. Burnet orders the regular army to be strengthened to 85,000 troops by July 1849. On July 12,1849 Pres. Burnet asks the Texas Congress to declare war on Mexico.
     
  3. Falastur Fighting Swiss-wank since 1291

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2009
    Location:
    Hitchin, Herts
    Interesting. I can't comment fully on the social and political stuff as this area isn't my strongest point, however, I will say I would put a big question mark on your military figures though. If Texas has a population of 150,000 then a regular army of 20,000 is virtually impossible itself. Asking for 40,000 militia and enough sailors for 40 ships is totally implausible. That's going to require a total military of somewhere in the region of 65,000 men. That's almost the entire male population of Texas, including children, the elderly and invalids. In fact, that's the same size as the regular British army in the Napoleonic Wars, only a generation earlier and in a time of war. If war were declared and the militia were raised, the country would simply fall apart since there wouldn't be enough skilled female labourers to do the work that needs to be done to support the country - such as growing food, or importing it, for instance. The economy would collapse in days.

    Edit: and for the regular army to be 85,000 by 1849? Either all the able-bodied women are now fighting too, or every migrant who moves to Texas is being immediately issued with a gun and sent to the front lines...
     
  4. herricks If you know what I mean

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Location:
    texas
    well i will admit in my AH Texas 1844 with a population of 150,000 an army of 60,000 regular & reserve is alittle steep but by 1849 if the population of texas steadily increasing (the 1840 otl pop was estimated at 70,000) so if the population keeps doubling with immagration by 1849 it would be over 200,000 it would be more plausible
     
  5. Don Lardo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2010

    A little steep? It's impossible. Why can't you understand that?

    Plausible? Try pathetic instead.

    Roughly ten percent for relatively brief periods during extreme national emergencies and roughly one percent for nearly all other times. Those are the rules of thumb regarding an organized military force's size relative to it's supporting population.
     
  6. Falastur Fighting Swiss-wank since 1291

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2009
    Location:
    Hitchin, Herts
    Don Lardo has a point. You have to remember that, even in times of crisis, a nation can't just collectively drop tools and unanimously join the military. A country needs a lot of labour to survive, and an army needs a lot of infrastructure. On top of that, if Texas is trying to institute this massive army, it will actually put off a lot of immigrants. I mean, the immigrants are coming to get rich by panning for gold. You don't get rich by being conscripted into the standing army, especially if the President is clearly very aggressive and is looking like he will pick fights with bigger countries. You get dead that way, not rich.
     
  7. Mr. Magi Prince of Fools

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2010
    Location:
    East Coast, USA
    So far that sounds okay.

    I'm calling no on the casualties the Mexicans suffered. I don't think 25 men, even in a raid at night, could kill that many men in four nights. This also includes the fact they lost half the men they had.

    Over reactive much? Why would he send all of his cavalry to kill 12 men?

    And how did Armijo neglect to notice that McCleod slipped by? Just raiding isn't going to do that.

    How many men did MeCleod have? I'm not going to argue the casualties like I did earlier here, seeing as this battle is more like Buena Vista, but I'm just curious.

    Sorry, but no. They were outnumbered over 10 to one. That type of odds cannot have that many casualties.

    Alright.

    I thought the point of the expedition was for the trail, not the gold. Plus I thought gold wasn't discovered there.

    Why would the immigrants renounce their citizenship?

    I can't argue with that, although I don't think that law would be enforced too well. Plus that would annoy the new immigrants.

    I don't think that the Texans would really recognize the Comanche as a nation.

    Which won't prove to work well once

    What? That's a huge amount of money in that time. Plus I don't think that the Texans would find that much gold in Santa Fe.

    No... just no. Don Lardo and Falastur have already shown why this is rediculous.

    Realistically that'd be about 2/3s of the Texan Army.

    Once more you neglect the concept of manpower. I guess the women are being recruited now too.

    I thought Texas wanted to be annexed. And you are right on the military size being ridiculously huge. The British Army was about this size when they took on Napoleon.

    I thought that the Tejanos would hate the Anglophonic Texans for marginalizing them.

    Nice to know this guy is baiting Mexico to declare war on him.

    I was right.

    Also, could you please space out your paragraphs, they get sort of annoying to read when you crunch them into once mass of text.