The Rebirth of the Ottoman Empire

If the Germans wanted to help defuse potential problems from France later, they could have given the "rump Walloon" territory (after the Dutch annexed Flanders) to France as a kind of consolation prize.

After all, the Congress of Vienna did not turn into "everybody rape France" even though Napoleon took longer to defeat at a higher cost than the French did in TTL.

True, but as we've seen before in history mercy rarely enters the victor's thinking. Territorial greed, however, does. Also, I wanna spice things up :).
 

Don Grey

Banned
I love the new update. So whats next? i cant wait for the next update.I cant even imagin the oil wealth the ottomans have As the need for oil rises they will be wiping there sublime asses with money. How strong is the caliphate status and influence of the padishah over the islamic world? Could he cause mass revolts at the flick of a finger? So what will they do next will the start incorparating persia move in to muslims land in africa cause major problams in european colonies that have muslims in them? How bad will the indian insurgency get?With the state of russia will the ottomans incorparet central asia in to there shpere of influence?Will germany finaly surpass the dreaded royal navy in power? should i get pop corn? :)
 
Im actualy a big fan of Abdulhamid II.When are we going to get a sneak peak or atleast the first couple pages of your TL?

Very soon. I've always felt that AHII was one of the greatest Sultans. Being Suleyman was easy - but navigating the incredibly difficult environment of 1876-1908 successfully took a real master. If he had been able to hold on for another 6 years, we'd be in a totally different world today.
 
A very satisfying conclusion to the Great War. I'm happy that the Ottoman Empire didn't annex Persia outright, and I think that aving them replace Rusia in the north as the major power really works.

About Africa, though: I think Algeria hould stay French. At the time it was an integral part of France, or at least the cosat was-the people were of French descent and spoke French; they were the majority population, so you're not dealing with any old colony here. I'd suggest that the Algerian coastline be kept French but that the rest i.e. beneath the Atlas Mountains, be taken by the Ottomans.

Oh, and this may be a moot point and I may not have been paying attention, but is there a Suez Canal? If you've written about it then I'm just displaying my ignorance, but I'd be interested to know.

As for Algeria, Germany has branded France a recidivist aggressor (even though that's not true). There is a Suez Canal. It was already built before the POD IIRC and it's stocks are still British for now...
 
As for Algeria, Germany has branded France a recidivist aggressor (even though that's not true). There is a Suez Canal. It was already built before the POD IIRC and it's stocks are still British for now...

Most of the Suez Canal Company's stock is French. The British purchased about 42%.
 
Hopefully I got it right this time...hehe

Here's the political map of the world as of 1925...Onkel Willie, what happens to Indochina...is it still French? Also, I put German New Guinea as Japanese...am I correct? :eek:

1925RoOE.png
 
Here's the political map of the world as of 1925...Onkel Willie, what happens to Indochina...is it still French? Also, I put German New Guinea as Japanese...am I correct?
Nope You still have Namibia wrong.:p

I also don't see two years of war and Australia not getting north Papua Guinea.


I wonder about Tunisia??. Pre OTL Berlin Conference, Italy was moving in to Tunisia in a big way. One reason France grabbed it in the conference.
ITTL with no Conference [??] I see Italy continuing their Economic Dominance.
I expected Italy to hold out till the Kaiser pressured the Ottomans into giving up Tunisia, to get Italy into the War.
 
I wonder about Tunisia??. Pre OTL Berlin Conference, Italy was moving in to Tunisia in a big way. One reason France grabbed it in the conference.
ITTL with no Conference [??] I see Italy continuing their Economic Dominance.
I expected Italy to hold out till the Kaiser pressured the Ottomans into giving up Tunisia, to get Italy into the War.

Errr I'm pretty sure this TL is about an Ottoman Empire which can't be just pushed around like that. Italy pushed it forward IOTL because Ottomans lost against Russians. ITTL, they won.
 

Don Grey

Banned
Very soon. I've always felt that AHII was one of the greatest Sultans. Being Suleyman was easy - but navigating the incredibly difficult environment of 1876-1908 successfully took a real master. If he had been able to hold on for another 6 years, we'd be in a totally different world today.


I couldnt agree more.If only he stayed in power for longer because unlike other he new the exact limitations of the empire the others didnt.They got stuck at the point that he ruled with an iron fist and sometimes you need that. One of my favorite sultans.He was a political geniuse in my book.
 
True, but as we've seen before in history mercy rarely enters the victor's thinking. Territorial greed, however, does. Also, I wanna spice things up :).

It's not mercy, it's enlightened self-interest. Reduce the possibility of having to fight another war a generation later by being somewhat conciliatory to France.
 

Don Grey

Banned
It's not mercy, it's enlightened self-interest. Reduce the possibility of having to fight another war a generation later by being somewhat conciliatory to France.


What if he wants another big war. But with a revenchest entent of epic perportions. Maybe thats why he wanted to spice things up and have meterial to cause a flash point.I was wondering how the ottomans got crimea when it was far easyer to move north by land in the caucasus. maybe thats the flash point.The ottomans could have easly gone up to astrakhan they almost did in the OTL with the crap army of islam and the destitute form of the ottomans. While crimea can easly be overrun in a day if the russian wanted to. And nothing more then a pebble in the sand for the soviet but the northern caucasus would be a nother matter being connected by land to ottoman power base.
 
It would have been nice to give Federal Kingdom of Scandinavia the entire Scandinavia, including all of Karelia and Kola peninsula. Regarding Kola peninsula, Denmark-Norway demanded Russia give it up in the 1500s and in doing so, would permit the unification of all the Sami people in one country. Also something to consider is Kola is rich in minerals giving a boost to the new country. Possession of all this territory would also allow the construction of the White Sea-Baltic Canal, another boost
 

Don Grey

Banned
It would have been nice to give Federal Kingdom of Scandinavia the entire Scandinavia, including all of Karelia and Kola peninsula. Regarding Kola peninsula, Denmark-Norway demanded Russia give it up in the 1500s and in doing so, would permit the unification of all the Sami people in one country. Also something to consider is Kola is rich in minerals giving a boost to the new country. Possession of all this territory would also allow the construction of the White Sea-Baltic Canal, another boost

Id like to see a unifide strong scandinavia.Ive always had a soft spot for the scandies if nothings else but for there beautiful blond blue eyed women :)

But i feel its to late in the game to change the TL if there isnt another big war especialy with the mediocre state of there militaries.
 
Sheez. Talk about major Ottoman wankage here.

There's actually very little wankage. The map is mostly just what Egypt & the Ottomans had between them in OTL with a few extra oases in Africa, and vassaldom for Iran.

Was there any actual point to your post, or were you just kind of being a dick?
 
Update time :D. Btw, there will be more wankage. With their population and oil wealth the OE will become one of the dominant powers in the world for as far as it isn't already.



Chapter V: The Era of Dictators, 1925 – 1940.



France and Russia were deeply in crisis after the end of the war. Military defeat, humiliation, an economic crisis of unseen proportions which included widespread unemployment, poverty and hyperinflation, and Europe being under German hegemony created widespread resentment and sharpened tensions in both French and Russian society. In France communist agitation was widespread and it was opposed by far right splinter movements, leading to frequent street fights as the parties tried to disrupt each other’s meetings and propaganda rallies. In the 1920s political instability was the norm in the French Third Republic and it seemed headed to a fall although in hindsight German clemency could have stopped the downward spiral. As more and more governments fell, France had twenty governments between 1914 and 1930, dissatisfaction grew as well as the desire for an answer to France’s ills. One of the far right splinter movements which would gain particular success was the Parti National Populaire Français or PNPF for short headed by disgruntled former French army officer Charles de Gaulle who had founded the party after being discharged honourably in 1915. The platform of the party was a reactionary, anti-revolutionary, ultranationalist, militarist, monarchist, pro-Catholic, anti-foreigner, anti-liberal, anti-communist, anti-German one and also with some slight anti-Semitic tinges, combining popular feelings of the populace with a reactionary background which was only logical because De Gaulle stemmed from a family of wealthy entrepreneurs known to support monarchism. These ideas weren’t uncommon for rightwing splinter groups, but Charles de Gaulle proved to be an extraordinary propagandist and swallowed most other parties like his into his movement. Those political opponents that did not bow for the PNPF were terrorized into submission by the Blue Shirt militias or “Internal Security Force”, violent gangs of thugs who beat up political opponents, mostly the communists. French society became polarized with the PNPF and the Parti Communiste Français or PCF coming to dominate politics while moderate parties were pushed to the fringe slowly.

With military support, the PNPF staged a coup in 1928 after 37% of popular vote was cast in favour of the communists and ended the Third Republic in order to pre-empt a rumoured communist revolution. De Gaulle immediately instated censorship of the press, martial law and had dissidents arrested and thrown in jail, thus establishing a dictatorship over France. Catholicism was made the state religion again which gained the new regime the endorsement of the Church while De Gaulle declared himself Guardian of the Nation, Defender of the Faith and Leader of the French. He then proceeded to elect a monarch from one of the three monarchist groups to claim the French throne, the Orléanists, the Legitimists and the Bonapartes. He chose the Legitimist-Anjou claimant to the throne, Jaime, Duke of Madrid, who accepted the offer to become King of France as Jacques I. As it happened to be, he also coincidentally held the Carlist claim to the throne of Spain as Jaime III. With his coronation as King Jacques I of France in a grand ceremony, the Kingdom of France was once again restored and it would be known as the Second Bourbon Restoration, the first one being in 1815, which would also be the last one. The new regime made rearmament priority number one and the disarmament had been resisted up until now, which ensured that many weapons had been mothballed instead of destroyed. These weapons were issued to the Blue Shirt militia which already numbered some 1 million men, many of whom had combat experience from the war or at least some kind of military training. These militias officially didn’t reside under the army’s authority and as such they weren’t restricted by the limitations of the Treaty of San Stefano, making it a shadow army in which the army would eventually be subsumed. In the new Three Year Plan, the government seized control over key sectors of the economy which were coal mining, heavy industry, steel industry, armaments industry, the aviation industry and petroleum production. The result was that France slowly remilitarized right under the noses of the Central Powers, creating a shadow army. The same was done in the navy with the Blue Shirts receiving ‘coastal defence ships’ while the many flying clubs made up of war veterans in post-war France were merged into a new air force, the French Royal Air Force. France was on the rise again.

Russia, in the meantime, dealt with its problems in a different matter. Tsar Michael II had introduced liberal reforms under pressure from reform minded leaders and also the threat of revolution that hung in the air until the early 1920s at least. These reforms included a new and more empowered parliament (although the Tsar retained veto powers and command over the army), economic liberalization that encouraged industrialization, freedom of thought and organization and an end to censorship of the media. For a time political reform satisfied the masses while industrialization, expansion of the infrastructure, modernization, universal education and free healthcare improved their standard of living and staved off the threat of revolution, thus satisfying the boyars too. Indeed, after the so-called “Crisis of the Russian Monarchy” from 1913 to 1920 as historians now dub it, strong economic growth and industrialization occurred to the point that Russia surpassed Britain as a major economic power. This was all threatened when a new economic crisis erupted in the late 1920s due to Michael’s overspending on his new social legislation such as free universal healthcare while also pursuing a program of rearmament and remilitarization. After his death at the of 57 in 1935, he was succeeded by Grand Duke Cyril Vladimirovich since his own marriage had been morganatic. Tsar Cyril I ended the reform and used Russian industrial power for a strong militarization and so the Russian Empire slipped back into authoritarianism. Using ultranationalist rhetoric, support from the Russian Orthodox Church and support from the army, rightwing circles, the bourgeoisie, the aristocracy and the rising middle classes, he established his own “benevolent dictatorship” also referred to as “Enlightened Despotism”. His son and successor Vladimir III would continue this policy and strengthen ties with Britain and France again.

Britain at this time had experienced little post-war troubles as opposed to Russia and France. No economic crisis had occurred although Labour had taken over from the Liberals who were in the opposition together with the Conservatives since the soldiers had all voted for Labour because they wanted their due for their toil in the war. Britain had experienced an economic malaise and some strikes organized by the Communist Party of Great Britain, but no serious instability except for the Irish Home Rule which had resulted in the division of Ireland into Ulster and an Irish dominion. In any case, they did join the Entente to end Germany’s continental hegemony as the only democratic country in the Entente and in Britain democracy wouldn’t survive the war.

France, at this time, felt ready to flex its muscles again on the international stage. King Jacques I held the claim to the throne of Spain and De Gaulle aimed to make true on that claim although he would be the power behind the throne in both countries. In Spain, the leftist regime was despised by conservative circles, the military and the landed magnates who resented the progressive reforms of the democratically elected government. They wanted to overthrow the government in a military coup with French support and in return they would restore the monarchy and accept Jacques I of France as their king, uniting the countries in personal union. Weapons were supplied to the conspirators, military advisors were sent, funds were made available and territory was acquired. In 1933, the Spanish army with covert support from reactionary Catholic mercenaries and French troops overthrew the government quickly in a mostly bloodless coup while the junta under lieutenant-colonel Romero Diego proclaimed the monarchy in Madrid. King Jacques I of France was crowned King Jaime III of Spain in a lavish ceremony in Madrid which earned France the anger of Germany although the Germans didn’t act decisively under the impression that France was still weak. And so a centuries old dream the Bourbons had held was made real. The result of the coup was that investment from France and also her British allies flowed in to build new roads and railroads, improve communications, modernize the economy, strengthen the Spanish military with modern equipment and training, provide universal education and free healthcare, reform the fiscal system and they set up a customs union and military alliance with France while France bombarded the Spanish people with Catholic-reactionary and nationalist propaganda to create an anti-German crusading mentality. The dramatic increase in living standards, speedy industrialization and restoration of Spanish national pride led to a quick increase in popularity of the new authoritarian, populist government. The dream held by the French Kings since Louis XIV was thus made a reality and France could rightly be called a great power once more, but it wasn’t enough for the revanchist French regime yet. They wanted the right the old wrongs made by the victors of the last war who had written these wrongs down in the Treaty of San Stefano. It was time to officially tear apart the hated Dictate of San Stefano as the French called it.

In Asia, another power was stirring and this one was the Empire of Japan. Japan at this time still felt belittled by the European major powers, being left out of important matters often. Moreover, Japan wanted to expand, but was boxed in by European powers except in China. Here, the Japanese had launched a war against a China in civil war in 1929, taking much of Manchuria and expanding outward from Shandong into Hebei, Jiangsu, Anhui, Zhejiang and Henan. This had earned the Japanese the anger of the United States who wanted to protect their markets in China. The US therefore stepped out of their isolationism and instated an oil embargo which the British, French and Russians supported which led to Japan terminating the void Anglo-Japanese Alliance officially in response. Tokyo started to grow increasingly warm to the Central Powers with whom they had no conflicting interests. Their ties with the Central Powers also ensured that oil kept flowing from the Ottoman Empire, completely negating the US’s embargo. Japan signed a treaty of mutual assistance and thus joined the Central Powers. Germany’s armour experts were sent to Japan to reform its army, earning Japan a fair share of victories. The war in China between the Republic of China supported by the Entente and the Chinese Empire under a Qing puppet emperor supported by Japan became a proxy war between the two alliances. Rising tensions, nationalism, militarism, conflicting interests and revanchist sentiments would lead to war, but it wouldn’t be spared in Asia, nor in Europe, but in Africa although any spark was as good as the other. It was this one that would the world to another war.

The Ottoman Empire was a great power again and was behaving like one increasingly. In 1937, after two decades of friendly Persian-Ottoman relations, heavy Ottoman investment and involvement in the economy, a customs union, a military alliance and the increasing merger of Ottoman and Persian administration and interests had led the Ottoman Empire to exercise the Sultan’s authority as caliph. Due to this increased cooperation, consultation and integration, political and cultural differences had faded while the fear of overextension had faded with Persia’s modernized infrastructure. The whole Shi’a and Sunni Islam divide had never been as large as portrayed by the west and Anglo-Russian attempts to drive a wedge between Persia and the Ottomans over religious divides had failed. The Persian puppet Shah “accepted the authority of the caliph” and so Persia was annexed into the Ottoman Empire, albeit with an autonomous status. This made de jure what had already been de facto for more than a decade. A matter that was becoming a thorn in the Porte’s side after this was the Suez Canal. The shares of the Suez Canal Company were still owned by France and Britain which meant that they owned the canal. The Ottoman Empire in summer 1939 nationalized the Suez Canal which invoked the wrath of Britain and France who feared Ottoman strength. They threatened war in no uncertain terms, but young Sultan Mehmet VII indignantly refused their demands, provoking a crisis. German Emperor Wilhelm II and Austrian Emperor Karl I, who had succeeded Franz Ferdinand in 1938, supported the Ottoman position. Britain and France consequently declared war on the Sublime Porte in spring 1940, followed by Spain and Russia. Germany, Austria and Japan declared war in support of Constantinople, leading to the Second Great War.
 
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