The names of every president in turtledoves south wins series

NapoleonCorinII · Jan 16, 2017

Could anyone help out, Greatly appreciated
I'm just looking for a list of every president in the south wins series, this includes How few remain, great war, american federation, and settling accountes

Of anyone else would mind, the CsA would be cool to, Thanks

Al Smith For Real · Jan 16, 2017

What. Is. That?

VidaLaVida · Jan 16, 2017

TL-191, you mean? Well, for those times actually covered in the books:

USA:

187?-80: Samuel Tilden (Democrat)
1881-84: James G. Blaine (Republican)
...
1913-20: Theodore Roosevelt (Democrat)
1921-28: Upton Sinclair (Socialist)
1929-32: Hosea Blackford (Socialist)
1933-36: Herbert Hoover (Democrat)
1937-42: Al Smith (Socialist)
1942-44: Charles W. LaFollette (Socialist)
1945-: Thomas Dewey (Democrat)

CSA:

1880-85: James Longstreet (Whig)
...
1910-15: Woodrow Wilson (Whig)
1916-21: Gabriel Semmes (Whig)
1922: Wade Hampton V (Whig)
1922-33: Charles Burton Mitchell III (Whig)
1934-44: Jake Featherston (Freedom)
1944: Donald Partridge (Freedom)

TR1 · Jan 17, 2017

VidaLaVida said:
TL-191, you mean? Well, for those times actually covered in the books:

USA:

187?-80: Samuel Tilden (Democrat)
1881-84: James G. Blaine (Republican)
...
1913-20: Theodore Roosevelt (Democrat)
1921-28: Upton Sinclair (Socialist)
1929-32: Hosea Blackford (Socialist)
1933-36: Herbert Hoover (Democrat)
1937-42: Al Smith (Socialist)
1942-44: Charles W. LaFollette (Socialist)
1945-: Thomas Dewey (Democrat)

CSA:

1880-85: James Longstreet (Whig)
...
1910-15: Woodrow Wilson (Whig)
1916-21: Gabriel Semmes (Whig)
1922: Wade Hampton V (Whig)
1922-33: Charles Burton Mitchell III (Whig)
1934-44: Jake Featherston (Freedom)
1944: Donald Partridge (Freedom)

Tilden was first elected in 1876. He was a one termer.

Since the original question seemed to want a fairly complete list--in the US, Alfred Thayer Mahan and Thomas B. Reed are known to have been presidents between Blaine and Roosevelt. In the CS, there was a President Lee. Robert E. would be the obvious choice, except for the fact that in 11 novels and countless references to Robert, there is nothing that suggests he was president.

NapoleonCorinII · Jan 17, 2017

Thanks guys

buddy200605 said:
What. Is. That?

Exactly what you think, a world where the CSA wins the civil war

Fenrir_Angerboda · Jan 18, 2017

TR1 said:
Since the original question seemed to want a fairly complete list--in the US, Alfred Thayer Mahan and Thomas B. Reed are known to have been presidents between Blaine and Roosevelt. In the CS, there was a President Lee. Robert E. would be the obvious choice, except for the fact that in 11 novels and countless references to Robert, there is nothing that suggests he was president.

There's an argument that it could be Fitzhugh Lee or Edwin Lee.
Both are Robert's cousins, thus they carry the prestige of being a Lee without needing to Bring up Robert.

If it was George Washington Lee or William Henry Lee, surely they would have mentioned Robert E. Lee, since they're Robert's sons.

Otherwise, it could be a fictional descendant of Lee, likely a nephew.
If it was a Grandson, surely Lee would have been mentioned again.

TR1 · Jan 18, 2017

Fenrir_Angerboda said:
There's an argument that it could be Fitzhugh Lee or Edwin Lee.
Both are Robert's cousins, thus they carry the prestige of being a Lee without needing to Bring up Robert.

If it was George Washington Lee or William Henry Lee, surely they would have mentioned Robert E. Lee, since they're Robert's sons.

Otherwise, it could be a fictional descendant of Lee, likely a nephew.
If it was a Grandson, surely Lee would have been mentioned again.

Fitzhugh was his nephew actually, but the point stands. He was an early favorite because he was such a political creature in OTL after the war.

VidaLaVida · Jan 19, 2017

TR1 said:
Tilden was first elected in 1876. He was a one termer.

I think How Few Remain did say that, now that you mention it, yeah. But that brings up a question: if Tilden were first elected in 1876, that would mean there are three presidential terms between then and when Lincoln lost reelection in 1864 (possibly to Horatio Seymour? That would be my best guess). And Democrats were in the White House all the way between Lincoln and Blaine.

So, presuming that none of the Democratic presidents went against the two-term precedent (which is likely, given that it seemed to be unprecedented when Roosevelt tried to run again in 1920), that would imply that one of the presidents between 1864 and 1876 only served one term, despite all being Democrats.

TR1 · Jan 19, 2017

VidaLaVida said:
I think How Few Remain did say that, now that you mention it, yeah. But that brings up a question: if Tilden were first elected in 1876, that would mean there are three presidential terms between then and when Lincoln lost reelection in 1864 (possibly to Horatio Seymour? That would be my best guess). And Democrats were in the White House all the way between Lincoln and Blaine.

So, presuming that none of the Democratic presidents went against the two-term precedent (which is likely, given that it seemed to be unprecedented when Roosevelt tried to run again in 1920), that would imply that one of the presidents between 1864 and 1876 only served one term, despite all being Democrats.

More likely it was a series of 3 one-term presidents, which is in keeping with the customs and patterns of the 19th century presidency. Two-term presidencies weren't a given.

Tim Thomason · Jan 28, 2017

TR1 said:
More likely it was a series of 3 one-term presidents, which is in keeping with the customs and patterns of the 19th century presidency. Two-term presidencies weren't a given.

James Polk and Rutherford Hayes OTL both made one-term pledges and stuck to them. There's nothing stopping Seymour or McClellan from doing the same here.

TR1 · Jan 28, 2017

Tim Thomason said:
James Polk and Rutherford Hayes OTL both made one-term pledges and stuck to them. There's nothing stopping Seymour or McClellan from doing the same here.

Who the hell thinks McClellan was a POTUS? Characters actually discuss him in the series and all agree he was a shitty general and was as much responsible for losing the WoS as Lincoln was. They certainly don't describe him as POTUS, and I can't imagine "general who lost the WoS" has a hope in hell of becoming POTUS in the first place.

Tim Thomason · Jan 28, 2017

TR1 said:
Who the hell thinks McClellan was a POTUS? Characters actually discuss him in the series and all agree he was a shitty general and was as much responsible for losing the WoS as Lincoln was. They certainly don't describe him as POTUS, and I can't imagine "general who lost the WoS" has a hope in hell of becoming POTUS in the first place.

... That was a mistake of mine. I meant to put some random Northern 1860s Democrat as an example, with McClellan popping into my head because of his status in OTL.

Here's a better list from Zoidberg12. Basically, one-termers Seymour, Hendricks, Woodward (dies) & Cox, and then Tilden.

TR1 · Jan 29, 2017

Tim Thomason said:
... That was a mistake of mine. I meant to put some random Northern 1860s Democrat as an example, with McClellan popping into my head because of his status in OTL.

Here's a better list from Zoidberg12. Basically, one-termers Seymour, Hendricks, Woodward (dies) & Cox, and then Tilden.

Ok, sorry. I've seen many a bad fan theory.

Tiro · Feb 4, 2017

Haven't we all and isn't one of the Greatest Delights to be experienced on AH.com spotting one of these Theories and feeling that warm, cozy glow as you realise just how much less crackpot your own are? (if only by comparison).