The House of Palaiologos, Against the Tide: An Eastern Roman Timeline
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Well, thank You very much (Ukrainians will soon get to know about it too
)I wonder- how is it possible for Ottos to move forces around so quickly? After all they were fighting on the other side of their state a while ago- and every neighbor of them knew about what's going on. Why wouldn't they simply gang against Ottos attacking from all sides? It's much better than becoming almost dependent on them.
This TL is getting close to three years old and it's covered more than half a century in great detail on every year! I remember when I started reading it I had no idea that the Ottomans were going to make a comeback. As I've said before, one of my favorite things about this TL is the character development. I'm glad you're keeping it going!
Good to be back
.The HRE and it's satellite states are currently in process of setting up the lines that will define the region's modern nations, and while I don't want to give too much away, one should have a rough image of what central Europe is going to look like by the end of Leopold's reign.
David will definitely be agitating for war, but without some stronger allies he'll be looking at a fair fight at best, rather than holding any sort of advantage, so it'll need to be an opportunistic move.
Concerning Giorgios, you mean besides being a Latinophile on the order of Manuel I
. Still, I've got a new subplot that I'm preparing that should bring him into some murkier territory, so it definitely gets worse.Glad you like the writing style.
To be fair, the number of small states isn't greatly increased much from the time of the PoD, with only Wales and Leon being truly new, and Burgundy and Genoa bit the dust in the meantime, it's just that IOTL the Habsburgs quickly came to own most of western Europe, France took Brittany, and England united Britain, so that the number of European states was drastically reduced by 1600.
Yeah, Bohemia is in like the worst geopolitical position ever (both TTL and OTL at this time I'd say) at this time. Austria, Hungary, and Poland are all strong enough to take them alone, and together it just isn't fair. Add in an elective monarchy without a strong dynasty to make succession difficult and you have a recipe for not lasting the century (not that that's my intention, but still).Its back
I feel so bad for bohemia and matthais. even if loius fails he probably wont be in a stable position. But im certain once the war ends louis will join the cold allaince. Poland isnt exactly a trustworthy neighbor.
One more thing: brittany shall control the spice
Also, you forced me to make this. I am a terrible person
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Well, thank You very much (Ukrainians will soon get to know about it too
I wonder- how is it possible for Ottos to move forces around so quickly? After all they were fighting on the other side of their state a while ago- and every neighbor of them knew about what's going on. Why wouldn't they simply gang against Ottos attacking from all sides? It's much better than becoming almost dependent on them.
Their fight with Ibrahim was over a year prior, so movement isn't much of an issue. Really, what caught the Romans off guard more than anything was the Ottoman willingness to fight another war after only a year of peace, although the Ottomans have had some organizational improvements under Ahmed that have made them faster as well.
Still Ahmed has made a lot of enemies. Even King Fredrico would be willing to try a backstab I think with the proper allies. The Ottomans have become one to fear again. And if the opportunity is seen I could see the neighbors allying for the simple purpose of ending such a threat.
Also good to see the rebel Turk State was not forgotten.
Also good to see the rebel Turk State was not forgotten.
glad to see you back! The update is an interesting one, the Teutons forming an inquisition/court system strikes me as a little odd, seeing as they didnt really do anything like that in their own territory, mostly it was in the hands of the locals with the kommandants and the meisters having supreme authority, i believe. The dominicans would have been a better choice, as they are renowned for their legal knowledge and would be running the spanish inquisition in OTL for years now, also the Roman inquisition was mostly staffed by dominicans, though franciscans and some augustinians or cistercians were also involved.
great update Avitus but...too personalised!-events don't take the turn we wish them to,just because we so wish...
The Byzantines came out of war with their military honned for war and with an armistice with an untrustworthy enemy at worst or highly suspect at best.
Staffs don't depend on psychological factors to draw future war plans in the 16th century but cold facts.Bzyantium was in fact better readz for war than
the Ottomans.The latter would need a lot more than a year or two to withdraw from their last front,great distances and great damage to axels and wheels of artillery,horse hooves etc-animals need rest and recuperation-so byzantines would have been a lot more ready for war than the Turks.
Practically Avitus your plot is weak there;
With Matthias and the discription of that battle,few years later OTL in Breitenfeld the king of Sweden,Gustavus Adolfus,was killed but the Swedes won a proud victory.There is no much difference here,and,I found the panic and disintergration on the royal centre unfounded.The greatest military genius of 17th century
Vicompte de Turenne was killed a little before his greatest victory...your point is very debatable...and what nags me in the back of my head,is the Military Revolution Debate-it is in the net-and deals with approximately the same time....read it.
please carry on writing,and more frequently,I enjoy it very much...
The Byzantines came out of war with their military honned for war and with an armistice with an untrustworthy enemy at worst or highly suspect at best.
Staffs don't depend on psychological factors to draw future war plans in the 16th century but cold facts.Bzyantium was in fact better readz for war than
the Ottomans.The latter would need a lot more than a year or two to withdraw from their last front,great distances and great damage to axels and wheels of artillery,horse hooves etc-animals need rest and recuperation-so byzantines would have been a lot more ready for war than the Turks.
Practically Avitus your plot is weak there;
With Matthias and the discription of that battle,few years later OTL in Breitenfeld the king of Sweden,Gustavus Adolfus,was killed but the Swedes won a proud victory.There is no much difference here,and,I found the panic and disintergration on the royal centre unfounded.The greatest military genius of 17th century
Vicompte de Turenne was killed a little before his greatest victory...your point is very debatable...and what nags me in the back of my head,is the Military Revolution Debate-it is in the net-and deals with approximately the same time....read it.
please carry on writing,and more frequently,I enjoy it very much...
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The Teutons have been gradually reorienting themselves westward for decades ITTL, and under Conrad they've been largely repurposed towards fighting Charlotteanism. Ironically, the rise of a new heresy in Northern Europe has given the Order a new lease on life after they lost their purpose during the Lithuanian conversion. Without giving too much away, I think we can begin to think of them as taking a turn towards becoming more Jesuit-like in general, even if as yet they haven't shed their military focus or their German-centrism.
Of course other orders will be involved too, and to be fair this edict does make a fair amount of geopolitical sense, given that the Order is already garrisoning most of the places they'll be judging anyways. It also helps that the proposal comes from outsiders, the Archbishop of Mainz knowing very little about the situation other than that the Teutons beat Magnus and are occupying a large swathe of territory at the moment, and the emperor having ulterior motives like keeping people from thinking too hard about his uncle's free cities proposal.
Of course, I'd be lying if I said rule of cool weren't a part of it. Knightly orders in the reformation just sounds like too interesting a scenario to pass up, so if I've overstepped the bounds of plausibility for the sake of fun I apologize.
I'm not sure I agree on the Ottoman logistics. For starters, they haven't been using the exact same forces from the war with Ibrahim to menace the Romans. The war in the east was a bit of a mess for them, and they were unable to bring their full forces to bare (something Ibrahim had planned I might add), but this time that isn't the case, and those forces they weren't able to devote to the previous conflict have been the greater part of the western force in this scenario. It's a testament more to the size and manpower that the Ottomans still command really, showing that they could potentially fend off attacks from both east and west simultaneously, rather the speed with which an individual force can recover and cross the empire. It also shows that the Romans and Smyrna have grown complacent after nearly a decade without major wars (the Serbian adventure being an exception, but a relatively minor one).
Technically Matthias' center didn't break. They held their ground valiantly until the retreat was sounded, but they were incapable of holding the field alone. It was the right flank that went to pieces, and they were the poorest troops in Matthias' army. Certainly victories are possible even if the army's leader falls, but in this case the battle was far from decided when it happened, and they couldn't withstand the strain. It can also be argued that Jindrich shouldn't have withdrawn, and that the battle was not yet un-winnable by that point, but as I said he chose to think about the long term survival of the king, and considered losing the battle a worthy sacrifice for that.
Avitus,
regarding the Turks your thinking is correct for...20th century...such a large standing force in the west could not be sustained or such a long time by the horrible logistics system of the 16th century while there were ongoing operations north east and the economy of the Ottomans never approached that of Byzantium,see prof.Laiou <"Economy of Byzantium", vol.III >.In the 16th century Ottomans could never achieve such a feat,see the "Military Revolution Debate"Angelfire by John F.Guilmartin JR in the net.
Someone mentioned something about the decline o the importance of the Mediterranean.I would say a misconception.OTL the strength of the Muslim Mediterranean and the disruption of the spice trade forced the Europeans to look for alternatives,east and west.This is not true here since the eastern ports of Mediterranean are in Christian hands,European squadrons petrolled the East and the flow of merchandise was going uninterrupted.Discoveries would have to wait...until they become really profitable,if ever.
regarding the Turks your thinking is correct for...20th century...such a large standing force in the west could not be sustained or such a long time by the horrible logistics system of the 16th century while there were ongoing operations north east and the economy of the Ottomans never approached that of Byzantium,see prof.Laiou <"Economy of Byzantium", vol.III >.In the 16th century Ottomans could never achieve such a feat,see the "Military Revolution Debate"Angelfire by John F.Guilmartin JR in the net.
Someone mentioned something about the decline o the importance of the Mediterranean.I would say a misconception.OTL the strength of the Muslim Mediterranean and the disruption of the spice trade forced the Europeans to look for alternatives,east and west.This is not true here since the eastern ports of Mediterranean are in Christian hands,European squadrons petrolled the East and the flow of merchandise was going uninterrupted.Discoveries would have to wait...until they become really profitable,if ever.
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The ottoman sultan is bullying everyone of his neighbours to accept his demands. Can't wait for all of them to unite against him. Byzantium and Smyrna are allready allies. They need to cooperate with Ibrahim. After what just happened, they should come to that realization pretty quickly.
So uh…was this on, or still on haitus?
Ah man, I thought this was an update. Though I too was just thinking about this TL.
I've been on a school induced hiatus for a while. Now that's over, but I haven't really worked much on the TL since my break began (I had a family vacation and some leftover school related business to attend to). I can't make any promises, but perhaps now that I'm thinking about it I can get another update online in a week or two. I definitely haven't discontinued the TL in any case.
Avitus, I know this timeline is dead, but I wanted to let you know that I really appreciate the time you put into it. This timeline expanded way past what it was expected to be. It became a detailed history of a changed Europe and by the end, the world. I know the chances of this coming back is next to zero but you should know that you have created something special.
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Well I support your statement and your desire to see this TL rejuvenated, but you can't just post anything and make the readers feel like if there is an update only to see their excitement destroyed.
It's not good to post on a thread which is on a long hiatus and more likely abandoned though you wish to see it continued it's not good to go around necro-posting. I was reprimanded once and have given up on such joy - ruining things since then. It will be better if you do so to.
Its only a necro if its more than 6 months after the last.