The Fountainhead Filibuster: Tales from Objectivist Katanga
- Thread starter Linkwerk
- Start date
- Status
Nebogipfel
Monthly Donor
Talking about SF - wasn't Heinlein a Rand fanboy ?
Pournelle and Niven were already around, but at least the former was still a liberal back then ...
Talking about SF - wasn't Heinlein a Rand fanboy ?
Pournelle and Niven were already around, but at least the former was still a liberal back then ...
Heinlein was a very small 'L' libertarian. I read an interview he had with a Yoing Turk libertarian and he got extremely terse during the course of the interview with the youngsters rigid ideology. I don't imagine him getting along with Objectivists.
Though in his younger days maybe. He seemed to buy into those sorts of fads. He was a social credit guy funnily enough once upon a time.
It will be the paradise lost for wing nuts
Yeah their lost cause...image their AH.com full of TL where the Katanga survives and thrive (and naturally become a superpowers).
In a more serious way, depending of how things develp in Africa, the works of Ayn Rand can be seen akin to the Turner Diaries in TTL
I fear that it will difficult to separate them, at least in the eyes of the greater public
Nebogipfel
Monthly Donor
I think they would deal with the thing like with the civil war - self victimization, state rights etc.
Heh - the connections didn't hit me until you mentioned that name...
Yes, beautiful.
BTW here Hubbard played a little but pivotal role in put Ayn in a new direction, little Ron was always a megalomaniac glory-seeker, so i see him milk all the publicity telling to everyone that was him to really inspire the endevour...and when the shit hit the fan it will be a PR nightmare for his new religion, can this put him on the black list of J. Edgar Hoover? It will be the ultimate showdown of destiniy
I still want to know if Co$ exists ITTL...
Speaking of which, maybe Linkwerk will clarify if RAH actually made the infamous bar bet with LRH ITTL.
Heinlein (and Asimov) bothy knew LRH and moved in the same circles. Quite a few period SF authors were heavily involved in Dianetics - john Campbell promoted it strongly, and Theodore Sturgeon and A. E. van Vogt were auditors!
That's were my thoughts went...
Agreed. He was just too eclectic.
And a racist, and a sexist. And don't forget he worked on Upton Sinclair's campaign for governor...
Nebogipfel
Monthly Donor
I think the Katanga State would attracted all kinds of totalitarian/authoritaritan characters like flies, at least in the beginning. The prospect of being member of an elitist group of beings treating the masses like s**te would be just too tempting. This could lead to some interesting internal conflicts later on.
Last edited:
Deleted member 40957
I've always thought he just liked playing with ideas. Starship Troopers can be read as praise for fascism and a militarized society, but that doesn't exactly square with the free-love communal lifestyle enshrined in Stranger in a Strange Land.
I don't think he'd be a Rand fan, either way.
The closest he's come to an author avatar outside of Lazarus Long was probably Professor Bernardo La Paz in The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress (who was also based upon a friend of his), and he stated (to the best of my recollection, since I don't have the story handy) that he could "Get along with a Randian".
Nebogipfel
Monthly Donor
The whole thing would definitely have a deep impact on SF. I just can so imagine fanboys pilgrimage to Katanga. The genre would need a long time to recover, if ever.
Well depends, luckily we're in the early 60's so travel in Africa is not very simple so the stream of fanboys and teens will be non existant and a lot of authors even if know Hubbard they don't consider him that much (and the king of con himself will try to distance himself when the Rand experiment transform itself in the new Congo Free State).
Roddemberry can use the objectivist as a template for the Klingons or the Romulans just to drop the anvil a little better and for a little butterfly in the media, well there is a famous artist who drawn a little know characters, if i recall it was a teen bite by a radioactive spider, well if Dikto let say leave Marvel to be on the little african adventure or try to put is idea in the comic and begin to fight against Lee ahead of time, we can get a lot of change in Marvel.
From what I've been reading, Ditko didn't get heavily into Objectivism until somewhere during his run on Spider-Man. I haven't found any specific information on the when and how as of yet, though.
Deleted member 40957
Not sure the impact will be that severe, especially if Hubbard doesn't involve himself in the administration of Katanga (and I think Linkwerk said specifically in the other thread that he wouldn't). SF has always had its fans and followers, and the association of one or two writers with a nasty regime won't destroy it as a brand. Many of the genre's best minds - like Asimov - would never dream of involving themselves with Rand's project, and would almost certainly condemn it
On the plus side, if L. Ron does try to move over there, that will definitely butterfly Scientology out of the picture. He could never get away with it in an Objectivist state.
Interestingly enough, LaVeyan Satanism mixes elements of Scientology and Objectivism, giving it a dross of skulls and black masses for effect. Anton LaVey could easily end up moving over there in search of opportunity rather than founding a "church" that was mostly meant to freak out the squares in the first place.
- Status