The Amerika Bomber

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Blair152, Apr 14, 2010.

  1. Just Leo Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention how the Amerika Bomber would fare against the AH Turbo-Buffalo.

    Put another way it was vulnerable to the P-26 Peashooter (a ten year old design, in an era where every plane year of age was like a dog year) and absolute meat on the table for a Buffalo.[/QUOTE]

    brewster_buffalo.gif
     
  2. Cook Real friends stab you in the front.

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    The problem I have with a lot of the critics of potential alternative developments in technology in WW2 etc is that they don’t accept that a lot of these things weren’t developed because there was an emphasis on something else instead.

    If the motivation had been there, of if someone had caught Hitler’s ear last (usually the winner) things would have been different.

    And people criticising prototypes, please remember they are a test bed, you learn from them and then built a better production model.
     
  3. tantalus1970a Well-Known Member

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    That's a good point.

    It didnt help that at the start of the war Goering took Hitler to visit the Luftwaffe experimental station. But they both left with the impression that those designs they had seen were much further developed than they were and were about to enter service. So many of them were never chased up by the top brass, until it was too late. Hitler didn't really get what went into research and development; he thought that you ordered something and it turned up.

    At the start of WW2 Britain put its industry on a full war footing (ie concentrate on weapons and war material first, everything else apart from food comes second). Germany didnt do this until AFTER they invade the Soviet Union. Hitler didnt want to deny the German people their luxuries (plus they thought they were going to win anyway). If Germany puts their industry on a war footing in 1939, that's a completely different ball game.
     
  4. mailinutile2 Arrogant Bastard

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    ok, the project would be a militarly a failure and economically a waste.

    but what would be the psicological (and political) consequences?

    it is the first time that the american mainland is bombed by air from ... heck, I reckon it is the first time at all (would the 3 incendiary japanese bombs on the oregon woods count?).

    ok, none of those bombs reached their targets, but they nevertheless fell on highly inhabitaed areas.

    public opinion would demand some measures.
    and there is the shadow of rockets in german propaganda.
    I think the main problem would not be to have an effective militar counter-measure, but rather to counter a psichological fear in public opinion

    what measures would be taken?
     
  5. Hunter Well-Known Member

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    If the british were lost, somehow, the US was planning a bomber just for that situation, the b-36:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_B-36

    And yes, the combat radius is something different than range. But think about the propaganda value if somehow the germans were able to bomb the US east coast. One solution could have been to modified the whole bomber to single, huge flying bomb, and after steering it to target, parachuted to ocean where u-boats could bring you back.
    The another point is, ware there any use such a bombing missions? It may cause the same kind of reaction as the attack in Pearl Harbour. There could have been even casualties which are german-born or german-speak.
    So personally I think it could have been better not to bomb US cities. But on the other hand, it is rationally thinking...
     
  6. trekchu Well-Known Member

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    That was actually considered in RL.
     
  7. Blair152 Banned

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    Don't forget the Arado Ar 240. That would have made an excellent jet bomber.
     
  8. Blair152 Banned

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    Don't forget that there were three people working on a viable flying wing design during World War II. The Horten brothers, in Germany, and Jack
    Northrop, in the United States. The XB-49 and YB-49 weren't built until after World War II ended, and the YB-49 was so inherently unstable that it
    crashed and killed the test pilot. It wasn't until the B-2 Spirit came into use at the end of the '80s, that the flying wing was finally vindicated, because of fly-by-wire technology.
     
  9. Blair152 Banned

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    The German Kondor maritime patrol plane, I think it was made by Dornier,
    correct me if I'm wrong, was originally a long-range civilian airliner. It definitely had the range to reach New York.
     
  10. RogueBeaver Team Raitt

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    The Condor only had a range of 2,000 nm maximum. That is nowhere near sufficient to fly from France to NY. It would have to land in Britain, Greenland and Iceland for refuelling for a one-way journey, thus making that possibility ASB.
     
  11. Snellius Active Member

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    Uh.... if you can not stand some of the wanky threads....do not read them!!!
    :rolleyes:
    by the way some of them are just for discussion, to come up with better ideas, sadly enough there some accid .....who shoot off almost every ideawhich is not plausible...according to them :D
     
  12. CalBear Your Ursus arctos californicus Moderator Moderator

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    The Ar 240 had a RANGE (not combat radius, range) of 1,100 kilometers. Its roughly 6,000 KM from Germany to New York meaning a range of 12,000 KM is needed. So the Ardo is only 90% short.

    Okay, you're wrong. Per SOP.

    It was made by Focke-Wulf.:rolleyes:

    It had a max range of 4,400 KM, assuming you loaded it with nothing but fuel. With a weapon or cargo load it has a max range of 3,700 KM. That gets it about 2/3 of the way before the crew goes swimming.
     
  13. AMF Well-Known Member

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    An effective bombing campaign against the US mainland was beyond Germany's capabilities, unless one posits a POD that is many years before 1939, that gives the Axis a much larger economic base and a nuclear bomb.

    Having said that, it seems to be impossible to me for the P-26 Peashooter or the Brewster Buffalo to intercept an "Amerika Bomber". There were several aircraft designs which are mentioned when German aerial attacks on US territory are discussed, but even the slowest of them had a higher top speed than the P-26 Peashooter, whose top speed was 234 mph / 377 km/h, according to the Wikipedia article.

    Top speed of alleged "Amerika Bombers"
    Junkers Ju 390 314 mph / 505 km/h
    Messerschmitt Me 264 359 mph / 560 km/h
    Focke-Wulf Ta 400 395 mph / 635 km/h
    The Junkers 390 and Messerschmitt 264 existed in prototype form, while there were only drawings and a wind tunnel model of the Focke-Wulf Ta 400.

    The top speed of the Brewster F2A-3 Buffalo was marginally higher than the slowest of the three bombers, it was 321 mph / 516 km/h, but I have my doubts whether that would have been enough for a successful intercept under most circumstances. Brewster Buffaloes had great difficulties intercepting Japanese bombers. The Wikipedia links to three typical Japanese bombers of the time show, that in two cases, these were slower even than the Junkers 390, and only the Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily had the same top speed as the Junkers.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_G4M
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakajima_Ki-49
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Ki-48
     
  14. Blue Max Game Designer

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    This project will lead to massive outright loss in Germany's economy, its wartime production and its ever limited fuel supplies.

    I encourage this scenario, as this is likely to mean that WW2 has fewer allied Casualties, end more quickly and with lower total cost because Hitler has cleverly seen fit to screw his budget with an insane idea.

    I also suggest that this Hitler busily invest in Maus Superheavy Tanks and Microwave Death Lasers. After all, who wants Hitler to win?
     
  15. BlackWave Well-Known Member

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    Maus tanks? Pah! I raise you steampunk AT-ATs!

    http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2363/2066470253_2b8ac839e0_o.jpg

    Precisely the kind of thing Hitler would like, but definitely not need! :cool:
     
  16. Blue Max Game Designer

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  17. CalBear Your Ursus arctos californicus Moderator Moderator

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    You can't look at the top speed. The Aircraft lacked the range at top speed to get half way. They had to use right around cruising speed to get sufficient range, Cruise was around 215mph.
     
  18. BlackWave Well-Known Member

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    Raise you 100-foot Nazi robot:

    [​IMG]
     
  19. AMF Well-Known Member

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    To the best of my knowledge they even lacked the range at any speed to bomb the US East coast and return, and even if they had the range they would have been massacred by US fighters better than the Peashooter or the Buffalo. There is a reason I have begun my post with this statement:

    There is also a reason why I have written "alleged" Amerika Bomber. Still it looks extremely unlikely to me that a plane like the Buffalo, let alone the P-26, could intercept these planes in anything like realistic conditions. Under normal conditions, combat planes carry fuel reserves for a "spurt" at a speed close to the maximum, in order to escape pursuing fighters. Apart from speed, there is also the fact that the Junkers 290 could have brought at least two 20mm cannon to bear, one in the tail and one of its dorsal turrets, against two .30 caliber guns of the P-26, and two .50 plus two .30 caliber machine guns of the Buffalo.
     
  20. Just Leo Well-Known Member

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    OK. How about P-38's then? And what is the size of the formation of Amerika Bombers being sent? What is the size of the bombload being carried? How much defensive armament and armor is being carried?

    Bombers don't carry a "reserve" fuel load for a burst of speed. They carry what fuel they can to carry out the mission to the best of their payload/range capability.