The Airship Legacy

[GreatScottMarty]

I like cosmonaut.

 

[Eckener]

Just FYI: The Airship President TL has been added into the "Timelines and Scenarios" board

Here is a rough draft of my next update. Would like everyone's opinions on this, cause my knowledge on this area is kinda weak.

PART VI: CHANGING TECHNOLOGY

For 40 years, the airship ruled the skies, and dominated international air travel. By 1975, there were nearly 100 ships in passenger service between the German, American, British, Canadian, and Australian airship programs. The trans-continental ships could carry 400 passengers in a mere two days from continent to continent. Passengers enjoyed grand comforts only surpased by the gigantic sea-going passenger liners that crossed between Europe and America, which were starting to decline in use by the mid-1960s.
Jet engines had been used by the Amerian and German militaries since the early 1950s, first by the German Luftwaffe in 1954, and by the U.S. Army Air Corps in 1957. Daimler-Luft introduced the first passenger jet aircraft in 1969, and Boeing in 1970. Lufthansa had completely switched to jet aircraft by the end of the 1970s. U.S. Airways began using jet aircraft in 1972, and American Airlines in 1973, and within a decade they’d switched over completely to jet aircraft. PanAm shocked many by purchasing jet passenger liners in 1975, to start a complementary service to bring air travel to more cities in the US and North America and the Pacific.
With passengers now able to cross the country or the ocean in a mere hours as opposed to days, the airship’s days of owning the skies were numbered. Britian began using jet airliners in in 1974, and in 1985, all but the London-Sydney airship routes had been discontinued, with the British airship fleet mostly sold and scrapped, with a few being purchased by African and South American countries. PanAm gradually increased jet airliner use throughout the 1970s and 80s, and by 1989, all flights were handled by jet aircraft save the historic New York-Frankfurt route, the New York- LA route, and the LA-Honolulu Route, along with the “pleasure cruise” routes in the Carribean.
The biggest upset in the airship industry would be in 1990, when DELAG merged with Lufthansa. Lufthansa continued the trans-Atlantic tradition, continuing the Frankfurt-New York route, along with a few “pleasure routes” in the Mediterranean. Canada and Australia’s programs both ended in 1986 and 1989. The British Airship Works were closed in 1985. However, the airships did not stop being useful in other respects. Several Universities in America and Europe maintained airships to allow researches to have mobile research stations to explore in South America, Africa, and Asia. The US Navy maintained scouting airships up until 1991, when the last US Navy airship was decomissioned at a special ceremony in Lakehurst, and the Lakehurst Naval Airship Station was officially turned over to the National Parks Services, and would reopen in 1993 as the American Airship Historical Center. 5 ships were maintained in the hangars at the base, restored to their original conditions. Several times a year, the two of the ships are reinflated with helium for rides around the Lakehurst area.
ZGI scaled back their facilites, maintaining only two full production sites, one at Akron and the other and Freidrichshafen. The Dallas facility was closed in 1990, after nearly 50 years of building airships.
- Anderson, Dr. Alexander. Final Days of the Great Airships. New York: Colombia University Press: 1995.

Under the policies of President Joseph P. Kennedy, Sr., American greatly expanded and modernized it’s nationwide railway network. There were more lines providing cross country travel, along with inter city travel. While there were several new cross-country highways, based on the designs of the German Autobahn, railtravel was still far more effective as a way to travel throughout the 1950s, 60s, and 70s. It wasn’t until the 1980s that a second interstate highway expansion allowed for more people to travel by car more effectively than before.
Travel by train was very comfortable. You could enjoy the privacy of a private cabin in a sleeper car, or be in a standard railcar. It was affordable, cheap, and made it to where automobiles were not needed for most interstate travel. In addition, federal grants made it easier for cities to establish mass transit networks in places that had not previously been able to afford them. Many states were able to maintain state-wide transportation networks of heavy and light rail, along with bus service. After the expansion of the Federal Highway Network, and the gradual decrease in federal funds to rail and mass transit, automobile ownership began to grow quite rapidly in the US, so that by 1990, nearly 69% of Americans were licensed to drive cars, compared to just 34% in 1940 and 45% in 1960, and 56% in 1980.
-Thomas, Dr. Martin. Rails vs. Roads: How America Gets Around. Detroit: Midwestern Publishing House: 1997.

 

[GreatScottMarty]

Very good. One question by President Joe Kennedy do you mean John and Bobby oldest brother or their father?

the Father Joe Sr.
The brother Joe Jr.

 

[glenn67]

After OTL World War II, the US Air Force replaced the US Army Air Corps and became a separate branch of the military.

 

[Eckener]

Very good. One question by President Joe Kennedy do you mean John and Bobby oldest brother or their father?

the Father Joe Sr.
The brother Joe Jr.

Both:

Joseph P. Kennedy, 1957-1964
Nelson Rockefeller, 1965-1972
Hubert Humphrey, 1973-1974 (assassinated)
Joseph Kennedy Jr., 1974-1980(possibly to 1984...getting two terms of his own plus the remnant of Humphrey's term)

After OTL World War II, the US Air Force replaced the US Army Air Corps and became a separate branch of the military.

Well, I figured since ITTL the Pacific War wasn't as long as OTL WWII, there would be less of a push to make a separate air force. My intent was to break it away in the 60s or 70s...although I do like the idea of keeping the air forces as part of the Army and Navy...but it's probably unrealistic.

 

[alphaboi867]

Good updates Eckener. Even with the interstate highway expansion in the '80s rail is going to far better than in OTL; especially if we invest in Euro-style high-speed rail corriders. Does passenger rail service remain operated private or does it get nationalized? I assume there's no deregulation of air travel in this TL (which means no budget airlines like Southwest). By 2010 the US could have a fairly comprehensive network of high-speed day trains and slower night trains. I still think air travel would be more popular over transcontinental distances. It'd be interesting to see how cities like LA or even Phoenix develope if mass transit is considered a priority. LA could very well have that monorail network they turned down in the '60s.

As for airships; I think alot of research would be put into things like hybrid airships, hard shells instead of fabric coverings (thus reducing/eliminating the need for those giant hangers), and reducing the size of ground crews needed to land them. These are all things that real life efforts to revive airships focus on. If/when airships start to come back into fashion they'd probally resemble things like the Aeroscraft, Cargolifter, or Walrus HULA. They'd wider, derive part of their lift from aerodynamics, be faster, and be able to land on water or unprepared ground without a ground crew. I seem them used for more cargo transport, diaster relief, and other specialized roles than for passenger transport (but there'd be a niche market).

 

[Eckener]

Good updates Eckener. Even with the interstate highway expansion in the '80s rail is going to far better than in OTL; especially if we invest in Euro-style high-speed rail corriders. Does passenger rail service remain operated private or does it get nationalized? I assume there's no deregulation of air travel in this TL (which means no budget airlines like Southwest). By 2010 the US could have a fairly comprehensive network of high-speed day trains and slower night trains. I still think air travel would be more popular over transcontinental distances. It'd be interesting to see how cities like LA or even Phoenix develope if mass transit is considered a priority. LA could very well have that monorail network they turned down in the '60s.

As for airships; I think alot of research would be put into things like hybrid airships, hard shells instead of fabric coverings (thus reducing/eliminating the need for those giant hangers), and reducing the size of ground crews needed to land them. These are all things that real life efforts to revive airships focus on. If/when airships start to come back into fashion they'd probally resemble things like the Aeroscraft, Cargolifter, or Walrus HULA. They'd wider, derive part of their lift from aerodynamics, be faster, and be able to land on water or unprepared ground without a ground crew. I seem them used for more cargo transport, diaster relief, and other specialized roles than for passenger transport (but there'd be a niche market).

Yes, the USA would have a rail system comparable to OTL Europe by 2010, and every major city has a decent public transportation system, from light rail to bus. Cars are not as heavily relied upon. And I don't think the semi-truck would ever become so prominent either, since there aren't as many reliable nationwide highways to use. Cargo will mostly ship by rail or airship.

As for "modern" airship development, I would see a lul in new ideas after the airship "collapse" of the 80s and 90s, with new designs becoming more prominent after 2000.
BTW, where did you find that picture? It's really neat.

Here is a revised draft of Part VI:

PART VI: CHANGING TECHNOLOGY​

For 40 years, the airship ruled the skies, and dominated international air travel. By 1975, there were nearly 100 ships in passenger service between the German, American, British, Canadian, and Australian airship programs. The trans-continental ships could carry 400 passengers in a mere two days from continent to continent. Passengers enjoyed grand comforts only surpased by the gigantic sea-going passenger liners that crossed between Europe and America, which were starting to decline in use by the mid-1960s.
Jet engines had been used by the Amerian and German militaries since the early 1950s, first by the German Luftwaffe in 1954, and by the U.S. Army Air Corps in 1957. Daimler-Luft introduced the first passenger jet aircraft in 1969, and Boeing in 1970. Lufthansa had completely switched to jet aircraft by the end of the 1970s. U.S. Airways began using jet aircraft in 1972, and American Airlines in 1973, and within a decade they’d switched over completely to jet aircraft. PanAm shocked many by purchasing jet passenger liners in 1975, to start a complementary service to bring air travel to more cities in the US and North America and the Pacific.
With passengers now able to cross the country or the ocean in a mere hours as opposed to days, the airship’s days of owning the skies were numbered. Britian began using jet airliners in in 1974, and in 1985, all but the London-Sydney airship routes had been discontinued, with the British airship fleet mostly sold and scrapped, with a few being purchased by African and South American countries. PanAm gradually increased jet airliner use throughout the 1970s and 80s, and by 1989, all flights were handled by jet aircraft save the historic New York-Frankfurt route, the New York- LA route, and the LA-Honolulu Route, along with the “pleasure cruise” routes in the Carribean and Hawaii.
The biggest upset in the airship industry would be in 1990, when DELAG merged with Lufthansa. Lufthansa continued the trans-Atlantic tradition, continuing the Frankfurt-New York route, along with a few “pleasure routes” in the Mediterranean. Canada and Australia’s programs both ended in 1986 and 1989. The British Airship Works were closed in 1985. However, the airships did not stop being useful in other respects. Several Universities in America and Europe maintained airships to allow researches to have mobile research stations to explore in South America, Africa, and Asia. The US Navy maintained scouting airships up until 1991, when the last US Navy airship was decomissioned at a special ceremony in Lakehurst, and the Lakehurst Naval Airship Station was officially turned over to the National Parks Services, and would reopen in 1993 as the American Airship Historical Center. 5 ships were maintained in the hangars at the base, restored to their original conditions. Several times a year, the two of the ships are reinflated with helium for rides around the Lakehurst area.
ZGI scaled back their facilites, maintaining only two full production sites, one at Akron and the other and Freidrichshafen. The Dallas facility was closed in 1990, after nearly 50 years of building airships.
- Anderson, Dr. Alexander. Final Days of the Great Airships. New York: Colombia University Press: 1995.

ZGI UNVEILS “SCHOLASTIC CLASS” AIRSHIP​

AKRON, JULY 1- The Akron Airship Works have launched the GZ-84 USA Scholastic, for Yale University to use as an Educational ship, being able to conduct research trips and to take student on educational tours. This ship is jointly owned by Yale and PanAm, and PanAm will oversee all operational aspects of this new ship.
-“ZGI Unveils “Scholastic Class” Airship,” The New York Times, July 1, 1965

NAVY TO BUILD NUCLEAR AIRSHIP​

LAKEHURST, MAY 3- The U.S. Navy Airship Corps announced today that they would be building a nuclear powered airship. The ship itself will be a slightly modified version of the Kitty Hawk class that the Navy has been using since 1960, and the nuclear reactor will be built and installed by special Navy engineers. Zeppelin-Goodyear has begun construction of the new ship, to be called USS Atomica, and will be ready for flight sometime early next year.
If the ship is successful, the Navy says it will consider building several more, to serve as research vessels and scouts for the Pacific Fleet. This has been a dream of several ZGI designers since nuclear energy was first harnessed back in 1955.
-“Navy to Build Nuclear Airship,” The Washington Post, May 3, 1969.

USS ELECTRON CRASHES OFF FLORIDA COAST​

TAMPA BAY, AUG 19- The Navy has confirmed that the USS Proton, the third nuclear powered airship in the Navy’s fleet, has gone down not far from Tampa Bay, Florida. It is believed that out of a crew of nearly 150, about 70 have been confirmed alive, with about 30 missing and the rest confirmed to have perished.
The USS Proton was one of the largest airships ever built at nearly 1800 feet long, and some experts believe this was the ships ultimate demise. The Proton’s captain, Jonathon Miller, reported that they had been caught in a sudden thunderstorm. The chief engineer at Lakehurst Naval Base stated that he believed the high winds and fluctuating air currents of the storm put too much strain on the ship, causing it to break up in flight and crash into the ocean.
The Navy has already deployed crews to recover the nuclear reactor from the wreckage, hoping to prevent contamination of the sea life in that part of the Gulf of Mexico.
-“USS Electron Crashes off Florida Coast,” The New York Times, August 19, 1980.

NAVY ANNOUNCES END OF NUCLEAR AIRSHIP PROGRAM​

WASHINGTON, JAN 1- After months of debate in Congress and after a grueling investigation by the Naval Airship engineers, the U.S. Navy announced today that it was cancelling the Nuclear Airship Program, in response to the disasterous crash of the USS Electron off the coast of Florida last August, which resulted in nuclear radiation being leaked in the Gulf of Mexico, enraging preservation activists throughout the United States and the world.
Since the crash, the two remaining nuclear airships, the USS Atomica and the USS Proton, have been grounded, and all construction on the USS Neutron had been halted. The two ships in service will be decommissioned later this month and will be sold or scrapped. The not yet completed craft will most likely be reconverted into one of the new “Scholastic Class” airships that ZGI have started building.
-“Navy Announces End of Nuclear Airship Program,” The Washington Post, January 1, 1981.

Under the policies of President Joseph P. Kennedy, Sr., American greatly expanded and modernized it’s nationwide railway network. There were more lines providing cross country travel, along with inter city travel. While there were several new cross-country highways, based on the designs of the German Autobahn, railtravel was still far more effective as a way to travel throughout the 1950s, 60s, and 70s. It wasn’t until the 1980s that a second interstate highway expansion allowed for more people to travel by car more effectively than before.
Travel by train was very comfortable. You could enjoy the privacy of a private cabin in a sleeper car, or be in a standard railcar. It was affordable, cheap, and made it to where automobiles were not needed for most interstate travel. In addition, federal grants made it easier for cities to establish mass transit networks in places that had not previously been able to afford them. Many states were able to maintain state-wide transportation networks of heavy and light rail, along with bus service. After the expansion of the Federal Highway Network, and the gradual decrease in federal funds to rail and mass transit, automobile ownership began to grow quite rapidly in the US, so that by 1990, nearly 69% of Americans were licensed to drive cars, compared to just 34% in 1940 and 45% in 1960, and 56% in 1980.
-Thomas, Dr. Martin. Rails vs. Roads: How America Gets Around. Detroit: Midwestern Publishing House: 1997.

The ideas that birthed what we think of as the modern computer of the 21st century were formed in the final years of the 1930s. Men like Alan Turing, George Stibitz and Konrad Zuse paved the way for the technology we so enjoy and take for granted today. Although both these men came up with their ideas in the 30s, they did not see fruitation until the late 1940s, as governments around the world began to gain interest in these machines.
The most famous is Konrad Zuse’s Z4 Machine, which launced the Zuse Computer Fabrik (ZCF) out of obscurity and into the seemingly eternal lime light. This machine, built in 1947, was a revolutionary form of technology. Across the Atlantic, IBM’s Galactica Machine came in as a close second for Zuse’s creation.
In 1979, IBM wowed the computer world with the release of it’s Galactica X computer with the first integrated circuitry. Seven years later, IBM again caught the attention of the world with the Galactica XI, the first computer design to use microprocessors. It seemed as if America was now leading the computer industry that had begun to develop in America and Europe. However, Zuse wasn’t out of the game, not by a long shot.
In 1991, ZCF released their Z10 “personal computer”, or PC. It was marketed not to the government or to research institutes, but to the middle and upper class citizens, as a “new way to write, tabulate, or be creative”, and had approximately 100KB memory. It would be 5 years before the release of the Excalibur I by IBM, which had 500KB memory, by which time the Z12 had been released and was widely popular throughout Europe and the United States, and had 1MB of memory. IBM’s Excalibur III, with 1.5MB of memory, soon caught up to the Z12 in sales after it’s release in 1998.
In 2004, Zuse released its Z15, with 500MB of memory, and was the envy of the world until the release of the Excalibur V in 2007, which had a whopping 1GB of memory, which Zuse matched the following year with their Z17. Last year, IBM’s Excalibur VI was released, boasting 30GB of memory storage. ZCF states that they will hopefully release their Z18, with 100GB of memory storage, no later than 2011.
One development over the last 10 years that has really revolutionized the personal computer industry is the creation of the “global computer network”, which became available to the public in 1999. National computer networks had existed in the United States, Germany, and most other European nations since the late 1980s for public use, and since the 70s for military purposes. Linking all these national networks together has opened up new ways of communication and even commerce, with the rise of the first “e-stores” and “net shopping” in 2008. Many believe that this web of connected computers will truly revolutionize our society by 2050. Even now, projections are out that say that by 2020, 1 out of every 4 American households will own a PC, up from the 1 out of every 10 in 2009. Europe is expected to reach these number by 2015.
-“Quick History of the Modern Computer,” Time Magazine, March 29, 2010.

Still more work to be done on this part. But I'm also preparing to work on Part VII, which will pick up on the Race relations issues in America.
Couple of Questions for that:
-Would it be plausible to see America ban the KKK, after all it is responsible for the death of President Humphrey in 1974?
-I'm looking at having a serious showdown in Alabama, with Gov. Wallace refusing to heed Federal demands to integrate....I even considered having Kennedy Jr. order in the Army and declare martial law in Alabama, and forcing Governor Wallace out of office, and forcing the state to drop their state constitutional amendment that protected segregation...too ASB?

And some tech questions:
-cell phones...how behind/ahead would their development be? keep in mind that while PC development is behind what it is OTL, space exploration is ahead...by 1990, the Germans and the Americans will have gone to Mars on at least one joint mission, and the moon will have a more or less permanent international base by the same time. By 2010, it's forseeable to have spacecraft being built in space...at least possibly.

---alt tech development is a weak point for me, so let me know if anything is outta wack and I'll change it.

 

[Geekhis Khan]

Great stuff, Ekner!

Couple minor issues: Which Nukezep crashed? You go back-and-forth between the Proton and the Electron in the text.

Also, "Personal Computer" is a bit OTL, for me. Since it began in Germany, why not Volkskomputer (VK)? Translated Anglophone as "Folk's Computers" or just "Home Computers"?

As to your specific questions:

-Would it be plausible to see America ban the KKK, after all it is responsible for the death of President Humphrey in 1974?

> What, that anarchist terrorist group that hangs people and shoots the president? Definately.

-I'm looking at having a serious showdown in Alabama, with Gov. Wallace refusing to heed Federal demands to integrate....I even considered having Kennedy Jr. order in the Army and declare martial law in Alabama, and forcing Governor Wallace out of office, and forcing the state to drop their state constitutional amendment that protected segregation...too ASB?

> Rather ugly, put plausible. Check out A World of Laughter's Alt-Civil Rights scenario. Makes what you describe seem downright civilized.

-cell phones...how behind/ahead would their development be? keep in mind that while PC development is behind what it is OTL, space exploration is ahead...by 1990, the Germans and the Americans will have gone to Mars on at least one joint mission, and the moon will have a more or less permanent international base by the same time. By 2010, it's forseeable to have spacecraft being built in space...at least possibly.

> Well, of the techs that led to them OTL, nukes are a little behind, but space is way ahead and Computers are more or less on schedule. I'm assuming radar is more or less OTL, maybe a little ahead. I'd say anything + or - 10-20 years of OTL is fine.

 

[Eckener]

VolksKomputer...I like it
I would think that just as PC has become pretty much universal OTL, VK would be the same ITTL......"Folks Computer" just doesn't sound as good.

As for the situation in Alabama being ugly....this is true. And I've read a bit of "World of Laughter"....*shudders*. Realistically thought, its a miracle that the US really didn't go through a tougher civil rights movement....so I think it reasonable (if unfortunate), that an ALT version doesn't go so smoothly...

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

VolksKomputer...I like it
I would think that just as PC has become pretty much universal OTL, VK would be the same ITTL......"Folks Computer" just doesn't sound as good.

Volksrechner?

 

[alphaboi867]

VolksKomputer...I like it
I would think that just as PC has become pretty much universal OTL, VK would be the same ITTL......"Folks Computer" just doesn't sound as good...

"Home Computer" sounds right in English (though "HC" sounds a little funny).

You have the Civil Rights movement moving along slower than OTL, but what about the women? How's women's liberation going? Women still would've taken over traditionally male jobs on the homefront during the GPW, but not as much as in WWII because manpower shortages would be less acute. I doubt the government would create seperate women's services (WACs, WAVES, WASPs, etc) so the only women in uniform would be nurses. Maybe some female physicians or dentists would get direct commisions into the respective medical or dental corps. I can see the War & Navy Departments hiring alot of women stateside, but they'd be civilian employees.

BTW does the US still keep conscription after the GPW, to do the armed forces go back to being all-volunteer? OTL we only tolerated the draft as long as we did because of the Cold War; take that away and the most we'd get is something like modern-day Selectice Service registration for young men (& possibly female medical personel) and maybe a greater emphasis on physical education in schools & colleges.

 

[Geekhis Khan]

"Home Computer" sounds right in English (though "HC" sounds a little funny).

"Homies"...

 

[Eckener]

"Home Computer" sounds right in English (though "HC" sounds a little funny).

You have the Civil Rights movement moving along slower than OTL, but what about the women? How's women's liberation going? Women still would've taken over traditionally male jobs on the homefront during the GPW, but not as much as in WWII because manpower shortages would be less acute. I doubt the government would create seperate women's services (WACs, WAVES, WASPs, etc) so the only women in uniform would be nurses. Maybe some female physicians or dentists would get direct commisions into the respective medical or dental corps. I can see the War & Navy Departments hiring alot of women stateside, but they'd be civilian employees.

BTW does the US still keep conscription after the GPW, to do the armed forces go back to being all-volunteer? OTL we only tolerated the draft as long as we did because of the Cold War; take that away and the most we'd get is something like modern-day Selectice Service registration for young men (& possibly female medical personel) and maybe a greater emphasis on physical education in schools & colleges.

Yeah Home Computer sounds alright. But so does VolksKomputer and VK...

I think that women's rights would also be slower than in OTL..."liberation" staring more in the 80s. The image of the woman being the homemaker and good housewife would be far stronger ITTL 2010 than in ours. Inroads into the the business world will be on the rise, but no major corporations would have women CEOs i think....
And you're probably right on when it comes to women in the Service.

Your probably also right on the draft...probably end in the 50s after the fall of the Soviet Union as a major power following the Polish War.....though it would be interesting to see some sort of 2 year mandatory service required of all high school graduates...but probably unrealistic.

"Homies"...

HAHAHAHA lol nice!

 

[Eckener]

just a peek:

ALABAMA CLOSES BORDERS TO FEDS​

MONTGOMERY, SEP 1- Alabama Governor George Wallace today declared a state of emergency along the state’s borders, and has dispatched the Alabama National Guard to the border crossings along all major highways. From what our correspondents in the state have learned through undisclosed sources at the Alabama State House, the National Guardsmen are ordered not to allow any federal official to cross into Alabama. Furthermore, Governor Wallace has given a 72 hour notice to all officials of the Federal Government to leave the state. The governor said this a press conference held at the Alabama Governor’s Mansion: “This state will fight for the rights of all states in this Union, and that is the right to govern themselves as they see fit, without interference from the government in Washington. It is the duty of the Federal Government to protect the many states from foreign invasion and to ensure that all the states in this Union get along. It is NOT the right of the Federal Government to dictate how the states should behave within their own borders. The sooner that President Kennedy learns this lesson, the better it will be for all of us!”
As of yet, the President nor any official in Washington has given any sort of public response to Alabama’s actions, but the mood in the capital is tense, and our sources at the White House have stated that the President has been in high level meetings with his advisors since the announcement from Montgomery went out over the wires.
-“Alabama Closes Borders to Feds,” The New York Times, September 1, 1974.

Okay so here is just a peek of what's going on for the next update...which will hopefully be out this week....any thoughts?

 

[Geekhis Khan]

"Oh hell" comes to mind. Wallace is trying to incite a new civil war!

 

[RogueBeaver]

Federalize the Guard, then send in as many regular Army troops as required. Problem solved.

 

[Guildencrantz]

Shit just got serious in the South.

 

[Eckener]

"Oh hell" comes to mind. Wallace is trying to incite a new civil war!

My sentiments exactly. Though it won't quite take off into a full civil war, as the other southern states decide that war is too high a cost to try and keep segregation. Let's just say that, although I'm not 100% yet, I don't think Wallace will live to see 1976...

Federalize the Guard, then send in as many regular Army troops as required. Problem solved.

Yeah more or less what will happen. President Kennedy (Joe, Jr., that is) will want to avoid civilian targets as much as possible, and focus on Wallace and Co. in Montgomery. Most of the state will peaceably welcome Federal troops, including Birmingham, where the legislature will eventually end up at the end of the drama. Like I said, Wallace himself will probably not live to finish the decade

Shit just got serious in the South.

That, my friend, would be an understatement

 

[alphaboi867]

My sentiments exactly. Though it won't quite take off into a full civil war, as the other southern states decide that war is too high a cost to try and keep segregation. Let's just say that, although I'm not 100% yet, I don't think Wallace will live to see 1976...

Very good. Wallace is screwed now. He'll have enough trouble just keeping order in Alabama without the added problem of federal troops being sent in to crush his little rebellion. Indeed it's up for debate what happens with President Kennedy federalizes the Alabama National Guard. How many members "defect" and follow Kennedy's orders instead of Wallace's?

 

[Eckener]

Very good. Wallace is screwed now. He'll have enough trouble just keeping order in Alabama without the added problem of federal troops being sent in to crush his little rebellion. Indeed it's up for debate what happens with President Kennedy federalizes the Alabama National Guard. How many members "defect" and follow Kennedy's orders instead of Wallace's?

I would say it might be about even, maybe slightly more staying loyal to Wallace....but enough to make a mess for the rebels. There will also be small towns and bandits for a while. I'd say the actual "conflict" or what ever you want to call it will last a few months, with the state staying under martial law until the 76 election.
Montgomery will not fair well in the conflict, and the capital will probably end up in Birmingham, at least for a while, as that's where the Feds will set up shop.