That Wacky Redhead

[e of pi]

Was he able to resist saying "We can't change the Laws of Physics" ?


Cheers,
Nigel.

"CBC lawyers were worried that Desilu might object to the name, but the studio accepted that the term was public domain and did not seek financial compensation. At the same time, they requested that Doohan never reference either Star Trek or his character of Scotty on the program, or speak in a Scottish accent; these were terms which both the CBC, and Doohan himself (who often claimed that Scotty was “ninety-nine percent James Doohan and one percent accent”), readily accepted."

Sounds like he's contractually obligated to do so.

 

[The Professor]

Intresting update BB!

I wonder if The Final Frontier would be broadcast in Britain ? The BBC probably had enough popular science programs - The Sky at Night, Tomorrow's World and Horizon were all running at that time (and indeed had been since at least the mid-sixties). However, I can see the series being picked up by ITV. In OTL ITV did broadcast Leonard Nimoy's In Search Of... which has a similar format. Not only would The Final Frontier give ITV a popular science programme to compete with the BBC, but would also allow it to cash in on the success of Star Trek.

I agree with this but I can also see it being picked up by the BBC Schools unit which IIRC was still being broadcast on BBC1.
In any case I can British Schools picking it up to supplement their curriculum in places.

 

[Falkenburg]

Cracking Update, Brainbin.

It will be interesting to see what FF covers in its second series having covered so much ground in the first.

Intriguing hints about Nichelle Nichols. Eagerly anticipating clarification.

BBC2 might seem like a natural home for a series like FF but I'd have to admit it seems more plausible that ITV would pick it up.

I'm sure there would be pressure from the 'Creatives' who've experienced working with their cousins across the Pond but the 'Suits' would probably ignore it.

Shame David Attenborough isn't the Controller of BBC2 anymore by this point.
He always seemed open to new ideas.

Falkenburg

 

[phx1138]

The Final Frontier

This makes me think of James Burke's "Connections". Does (can?) it's success lead to more, or earlier, shows like it? *"Cosmos"? *"Nova"? *"Connections"? (Better still, *"The Day the Universe Changed".)

I also wish, yet again, I lived in this TL.

Apollo 20...water ice was discovered in the lunar crater where the module had landed

They needed ice for their Tang? BTW, I agree, this is a likely outcome, with a bigger budget & more missions. IIRC, it's also supported by the science, thanks to a recent lunar orbiter.

five Pioneer weather satellites

IIRC, the later Voyagers were repurposed (or "stripper") Pioneers.

I don't know if they'll get the full six probes they're hoping for, but even three or four could be enough to give more of the Tour.

I'm wondering if the bigger budget encourages more shots & cheaper spacecraft, & perhaps less ground infrastructure (the biggest part of launch cost).

Enterprise would prevail

It's not like there aren't valid reasons, not least it's also the name of a pioneering (Brit...) steamship: Enterprize. (I suspect the name wasn't adopted to keep people from complaining it was misspelled. {Recall the complaints about "Licence to Kill"...})

10. Propulsion in Space/Interstellar Travel

This has me wondering if anybody suggests using solar power satellites to drive spacecraft. Or flying SPS for terrestrial power use, in the energy crisis (presuming it still happens...)

“It is entirely possible that, within our lifetime, a new method of propulsion could be developed that could bring man to a nearby star system within his own lifetime.”

I don't have it in front of me, but I think solar sail proposals had been mooted; these, or Orion, could do it.

intriguing

Skoal.

in the 1974 budget, new funds were earmarked for the creation of a prototype space-based solar power collector and microwave converter.

Can you hear me cheering? Now, tell them about ocean thermal & power relay satellites. (Guest spot by Jerry Pournelle?)

Skylab

Two things. Is this the converted main tank concept, or the OTL one? Is there any hope of NASA coming to its senses & putting it in a high enough orbit it won't come down?

CBFT (channel 2 on the VHF dial) is the oldest permanent television station in Canada, established in 1952.

Home, IIRC, to the first "Hockey Night in Canada" broadcast, & at one time to "Don Messer's Jubilee" (which I daresay our American cousins have never heard of).

We can only hope that the last of these doesn’t get too far off-course…

I daresay, with the different launch window, we're in no danger. Nor are we likely to learn its fate if we are, with no appetite for a major motion picture or a more-faithful (if widely-disliked) spinoff of a spinoff...

Was he able to resist saying "We can't change the Laws of Physics" ?

He won't have to say it. Everybody'll be thinking it.

I would like to acknowledge the invaluable assistance from e of pi and truth is life, who served as my consultants in devising and writing this update. Special thanks must also go out to e of pi for directly assisting in the editing of this post.

Let me add: nice work, all.

 

[e of pi]

They needed ice for their Tang? BTW, I agree, this is a likely outcome, with a bigger budget & more missions. IIRC, it's also supported by the science, thanks to a recent lunar orbiter.

Actually, several lunar orbiters. It seems like every major recent probe has had one type of corroborating evidence or another, from the Lunar Polar Orbiter to Chandraayan-1 to LCROSS to Lunar Reconaisance Orbiter. Ultimately, the question I think is less whether there's water than how much and how best to access it, but the only final proof can come from going there and sticking a shovel or core sampler into it.

This has me wondering if anybody suggests using solar power satellites to drive spacecraft. Or flying SPS for terrestrial power use, in the energy crisis (presuming it still happens...)

We've discussed this beyond what appears here, and I think it will be included in the next space update (which I've been informed will be in about the '78 cycle, IIRC, though Brainbin can correct me on that.

Two things. Is this the converted main tank concept, or the OTL one? Is there any hope of NASA coming to its senses & putting it in a high enough orbit it won't come down?

The OTL one was still a converted tank, just one launched dry because the cancellation of the later Apollo missions freed up funds and Saturn Vs to allow it to be done dry (and the added integration simplicity was I think pretty key in finally getting it designed and launched, the need to fit everything on-rbit was making itself into more and more of hastle). Here...they've got the second run of Saturn Vs, which also enables a dry-tank conversion. As for orbits...Skylab's was pretty high, actually 430 km, about the same as the current ISS orbit and it stayed up for 6 years without a reboost. That's not too shabby. If Shuttle had been ready in time to reboost it, it'd have been fine.

Let me add: nice work, all.

Thank you. this started out as quid pro quo for Brainbin's guest post on Eyes, but it's been a pleasure to work on.

 

[Brainbin]

First things first: thank you everyone for 70,000 views! And thanks to e of pi for fielding some of your questions. This latest update is highly technical, and outside my field of expertise, but I get by with a little help from my friends. As always, before I respond to your comments on my most recent post, I'll address those that were made beforehand:

I dread the very thought of going to a local production of Shakespeare.

Back in high school, the entire student body was given the opportunity to attend a full-text reading of Hamlet, which for whatever reason I did not attend. But by all accounts, the production was terrible, so I'm glad I was able to dodge that bullet. I don't believe I've even seen a live performance of Shakespeare, actually.

I'd far rather have done that than have to read Catch-22. (Yuck.) Or Pendleton's Executioner series, which was a commentary on a certain quagmire, but it was subtle. The important thing is, it was readable.

My English teacher was a big dystopian literature enthusiast. Animal Farm, Brave New World... I only dodged 1984 because I had a different teacher that year, so I got The Great Gatsby instead. Then, my voyage through blatant symbolism continued with White Noise the year after that.

In 200yr, nobody will know who Joseph Heller is, & Harold Robbins & Jacqueline Suzann will be considered giants (Pendleton, too, IMO), for the same reason Shakespeare is now: they're popular. Shakespeare's work survived because he was. (Critics hated him.)

Actually, no they didn't. Those who believed that the propagation of the theatre contributed to the degradation of society did, of course; but their venom was hardly limited to Shakespeare. Even during his lifetime, he was generally well-regarded; though he was not considered the greatest playwright of his day (that would be Ben Jonson).

Also, it's very difficult to judge what will remain in the popular consciousness in the distant future. This is why many people decline to pass superlative judgement on works that have been recently released, rightly so in my opinion. What becomes iconic is dependent on so many complex variables, most of which are utterly unpredictable.

IDK: the Korean DMZ? Or the shoving over Berlin?

Fair enough. And the fun thing about allegory is that it can be applicable to many "thematically" similar events.

I'm not going to say the China parallel is perfect, just more sensible in the context: there are 2 main Fed opponents, & 2 main U.S. ones. (Japan isn't. A decade or so later, yes.)

So here's where I'm going to come down by editorial fiat: the writers are using a WWII allegory for several reasons. First of all, several of them actually served in WWII, including both Roddenberry and Coon; and the desire for a suitably big finale means that there has to be a war. Now, by definition, they can't depict the Cold War, because there was never any escalation; and if there was, it would end in Mutually Assured Destruction (which, notwithstanding how such an ending would be an incredible cheat, is difficult to dramatize on a galactic scale). So the Federation and the Klingons become unlikely allies against a mutual threat, despite their long-standing ideological opposition to each other (just like the USA and the USSR, prior to WWII), to the bemusement of both sides. And the Romulans, to be fair, borrow from Nazi Germany as much as Imperial Japan (the war ends with them being pushed back from both directions, more akin to Europe than the Pacific; luckily for them, they're led by a Hirohito, as opposed to a Hitler).

Gotta love PBS.

And now you have yet another reason to love them, right?

I find myself wondering if another studio couldn't have equally become interested before that & gotten it made sooner. (No, I don't propose Desilu, necessarily.) It's not like no studio exec had heard of SF (tho "SW" is more space opera...).

In Hollywood, you're only as successful as your most recent project. And before American Graffiti, for George Lucas, that was THX-1138. The exact kind of deeply personal, self-indulgent, labour of love that capsized so many of those New Hollywood auteurs. He had to make American Graffiti to orchestrate his comeback. And by the time he did that, science-fiction was seen as in decline, and who knows how successful he might be shopping his treatment around? Well, I know, of course

And by the way, Desilu doesn't make movies. They just make them better

In the UK at the time, it was definitely film projectors only and generally the films shown were not commercial films but ones that the schools could get more-or-less for free. They often had some commercial sponership, which in hindsight is a bit disconcerting. I remember one science film that finished with the tag line from a beer advert - none of this nonsense about protecting teenagers from the tempatations of alcohol in those days !

An educational film amounting to a glorified beer commercial? I don't think that's anything that would ever have been allowed to fly in North America!

I stumbled across "Night Moves", & I wondered if a more optimistic U.S. would butterfly it out.

We'll have to see how American optimism weathers this economic storm.

So back to my favorite - speculating on the future of Doctor Who. Specifically the Peladon episodes. These two episodes are the most interesting ITTL since they mention a federation similar to the United Federation of Planets, which I suspect ITTL will overtly be the case.

I also wonder about the Draconian story. That could also be rewritten using a ST background, with the Master trying to stir up war between the Federation and another race. The Draconians could be replaced by the Gorn, for example (although keeping the make-up the same).

During the "Yank Years" period, when Desilu is actively involved in the show's production (well, technically post-production and syndication), I don't see them objecting to more overt Star Trek references. That said, I think there will be trepidation on both sides to attempting to integrate the two fictional universes more completely. It shackles the creators on the Doctor Who side (some of whom, no doubt, are already quite resentful of being beholden to American audiences in the first place), and it rankles members of both fandoms, for different reasons (make no mistake, there are anti-Trek fans of Doctor Who; and Trekkie fans would not appreciate teases without either the Enterprise or her crew present). But those in charge might not know that. And the only for them to find out is to learn by doing. So I might be able to take your requests into consideration

(an older Kyle Winston perhaps?).

John Winston portrayed Mr. Kyle (no first name given in canon), and he'd be far likelier to play a different character within the universe of Doctor Who (unless the British have some compunction against the same actor playing more than one character on the same program that definitely does not exist among Americans).

Hmm, perhaps The Final Frontier popularizes the concept of the *Alcubierre Drive? Of course Alcubierre wouldn't think it up for decades, but maybe the popularity of the program and it's ambitious questions on these sorts of things prompts some astrophysicist to postulate something similar, and make a similar splash in the scientific community.

e of pi has already said most of what I would have, but I'll add that The Final Frontier airs on a public network, as an explicitly educational series (and is now receiving additional funding from another public network). This means that its format won't be undergoing any sudden shifts. Everybody involved wants to stick to plausible technology, and how it works (or would work). For better or for worse, this is a show with a very young audience, and the producers are going to focus on topics that reflect this.

Perhaps later seasons start to ask questions similar to Morgan Freeman's Through the Wormhole (a very entertaining show)?

Those topics are way too metaphysically-oriented for a show like The Final Frontier, not to mention too provocative.

If there is ever an episode on the possibility of extraterrestrial life, Carl Sagan should definitely be featured.

The closest relevant topic would be a potential episode on SETI, or the equivalent ITTL. Given that it was Sagan's greatest passion, he may well become involved with such an episode, though whether he would appear on-camera is another question entirely. As I've said before, I have no doubt that Sagan would greatly approve of the show.

Is there still a chance for a Grand Tour?

Yes, the Voyager probes are scheduled to follow the two Grand Tour windows (the first three in 1977, and the next three in 1979).

Excellent update!

Thanks, Orville_third. Glad you're still reading along

The fnal frontier is a great update from beginning to end. Love Jimmy Doohan's show - sounds like a ross between Jack Horkeimer's Star Hustler and Carl Sagan's Cosmos.

Thank you, Glen! It's actually one of my oldest ideas for TTL, but it was in collaborating with e of pi and truth is life that it really blossomed into its ultimate form.

Great update; glad to see this back!

Thank you, I'm glad to bring it back!

Excellent update and look at what might have happened. I wonder how far the push for SPS will go TTL?

Thanks, Steve As to your question, believe me, you will find out in due time!

Was he able to resist saying "We can't change the Laws of Physics" ?

Sounds like he's contractually obligated to do so.

No, Doohan will not say "Ye cannae change the laws of physics", but he'll definitely make allusions along those lines. Say, "the inviolable physical laws of the universe".

I wonder if The Final Frontier would be broadcast in Britain ? The BBC probably had enough popular science programs - The Sky at Night, Tomorrow's World and Horizon were all running at that time (and indeed had been since at least the mid-sixties). However, I can see the series being picked up by ITV. In OTL ITV did broadcast Leonard Nimoy's In Search Of... which has a similar format. Not only would The Final Frontier give ITV a popular science programme to compete with the BBC, but would also allow it to cash in on the success of Star Trek.

I agree with this but I can also see it being picked up by the BBC Schools unit which IIRC was still being broadcast on BBC1.
In any case I can British Schools picking it up to supplement their curriculum in places.

BBC2 might seem like a natural home for a series like FF but I'd have to admit it seems more plausible that ITV would pick it up.

If you're all in agreement that ITV would carry the program instead of the BBC, I'll go ahead and have them air it. From some cursory investigation, there is also an "ITV Schools" unit, in addition to a "BBC Schools" one, allowing British participation in the show's production to also have a "pseudo-public" orientation, despite private stewardship.

Intresting update BB!

Thank you, Professor! Given the sheer size of this update, I hope you didn't go and pull a Mr. Creosote on us

Cracking Update, Brainbin.

Thank you, Falkenburg

It will be interesting to see what FF covers in its second series having covered so much ground in the first.

Indeed it will. It won't be covered in quite as much detail as the first season was, but we'll definitely hear more about The Final Frontier.

Intriguing hints about Nichelle Nichols. Eagerly anticipating clarification.

Unfortunately, there's not much else to say about Nichelle Nichols other than what's already being shown. Much like her character of Uhura (IOTL; not so much ITTL), she's quietly supportive and helpful, but not particularly conspicuous. I will do my best to continue to mention her diligent work whenever I have the chance.

This makes me think of James Burke's "Connections". Does (can?) it's success lead to more, or earlier, shows like it? *"Cosmos"? *"Nova"? *"Connections"? (Better still, *"The Day the Universe Changed".)

I wouldn't bet against it. We all know how much those in the industry love to Follow the Leader.

I also wish, yet again, I lived in this TL.

We'll just have to see how you feel when all is said and done.

IIRC, the later Voyagers were repurposed (or "stripper") Pioneers.

Mariners, actually. Mariner 11 became Voyager 1, and Mariner 12 became Voyager 2. This will also be true ITTL, along with plans for four additional Voyager probes.

It's not like there aren't valid reasons, not least it's also the name of a pioneering (Brit...) steamship: Enterprize. (I suspect the name wasn't adopted to keep people from complaining it was misspelled. {Recall the complaints about "Licence to Kill"...})

Well, to be fair, even in British English spelling the word with a "z" is considered archaic. Archaisms were abandoned for other reasons IOTL (Columbia, for example, was properly named Columbia Redivida.) It should also be noted that the shuttle is, as IOTL, all but officially named for the NCC-1701, and therefore would take that spelling anyway.

Can you hear me cheering?

So you're in favour of this development, then?

Home, IIRC, to the first "Hockey Night in Canada" broadcast

On television, it was, yes. It was previously broadcast on the radio.

Let me add: nice work, all.

Thank you. On the whole, our continuing collaboration has been a very enjoyable experience. Challenging, but in all the right ways

We've discussed this beyond what appears here, and I think it will be included in the next space update (which I've been informed will be in about the '78 cycle, IIRC, though Brainbin can correct me on that.

We're next scheduled to revisit the space program during the 1979-80 cycle, though this is tentative.

As for the next update? More To Come... Right After These Messages, tomorrow!

 

[Falkenburg]

As for the next update? More To Come... Right After These Messages, tomorrow!

Canadian Pacific

Renault R12

Firestone 500 Steel Radial Tyre

Frankenberry and Sugar Bear

Magnavox Televisions

We now return you to your regular programming.

Falkenburg

 

[Glen]

During the "Yank Years" period, when Desilu is actively involved in the show's production (well, technically post-production and syndication), I don't see them objecting to more overt Star Trek references. That said, I think there will be trepidation on both sides to attempting to integrate the two fictional universes more completely.

I think it would be more of a wink-wink, nudge-nudge sort of reference. Use an even closer version of 'Federation' in the references during the first Peladon, have a cameo or more direct reference of some sort at the end when the real Earth Ambassador arrives. The ambassador need not even be referred to by name, but could be played by John Winston wearing an outfit that was reminiscent of Star Trek 'style'.

It shackles the creators on the Doctor Who side (some of whom, no doubt, are already quite resentful of being beholden to American audiences in the first place),

Huh? That sounds unlikely. Do you know of any precedent? Was this the case on The Avengers, for example? Also recall that there are no 'creators' of Doctor Who by this time, just the Producer Barry Letts and Script Editor Terrance Dicks. They don't even really have staff writers (just writers that they occasionally use more than once). And the fact that the Americans are helping subsidize the production (the always starved production!) will sooth a lot of ruffled feathers in their shop. The ones who get an attitude in the BBC about the US are also usually the ones who hated Doctor Who anyway, at least as far as I can tell. You or someone else may have a better take on this, but that's my understanding.

However, they still probably won't use a lot of Star Trek stuff - other than the few rare 'popular' monsters/species, most races seen in Doctor Who were one-offs, or at most only showed up in the episodes written by the same writer (which again were the minority).

and it rankles members of both fandoms, for different reasons (make no mistake, there are anti-Trek fans of Doctor Who; and Trekkie fans would not appreciate teases without either the Enterprise or her crew present).

Sorry, but I respectfully disagree on this one. I have never heard of one fandom objecting to references to their favored show/stories in another, so long as it was done respectfully. On the contrary, most people seem to like the references. Again, I think they will be subtle and not overly common or a large part of the show, nor will they convert one fan to another, but they won't cause worsening.

But those in charge might not know that. And the only for them to find out is to learn by doing. So I might be able to take your requests into consideration.

This a case of be careful what you wish for? Though I do agree that the people actually in charge of making the show probably do not have a good grasp either way on what fan reaction will be.

John Winston portrayed Mr. Kyle (no first name given in canon),

Sorry, a bit groggy when I wrote that I think!

and he'd be far likelier to play a different character within the universe of Doctor Who (unless the British have some compunction against the same actor playing more than one character on the same program that definitely does not exist among Americans).

No, they have no such compunction, and in fact Doctor Who often had actors show up in different roles throughout the lengthy history of the production, including future companions and Doctors even! I could easily see Winston making a 'quasi-Kyle' cameo AND playing some other role in a different episode.

 

[TxCoatl1970]

Several droolworthy developments ITTL!

I'm really enjoying the much more hopeful bent to both SF and space exploration ITTL!
I know you and e of pi have a fertile cross-pollination going on describing what could've been done better on both sides of that coin which I'm eagerly devouring and awaiting the next morsels!
I love the premise of the James Doohan-led show but as many have said, there was a crowded field of good-to-awesome science-based shows knocking around at the time. Maybe with the hangover of Moonshot Lunacy there's enough room for them all.

 

[NCW8]

John Winston portrayed Mr. Kyle (no first name given in canon), and he'd be far likelier to play a different character within the universe of Doctor Who (unless the British have some compunction against the same actor playing more than one character on the same program that definitely does not exist among Americans).

The obvious example here would be Nicholas Courtney, best known as the Brigadier. He first appeared as Bret Vyon (a Space Security Agent) in The Dalek's Master Plan.

If you're all in agreement that ITV would carry the program instead of the BBC, I'll go ahead and have them air it. From some cursory investigation, there is also an "ITV Schools" unit, in addition to a "BBC Schools" one, allowing British participation in the show's production to also have a "pseudo-public" orientation, despite private stewardship.

ITV and BBC did tend to specialise in the sorts of programmes they produced in those days. ITV was definitely ahead in Soap Operas, for example. Before Eastenders, the best known Soap Operas on the BBC were imports such as Dallas and Neighbours.

Popular science programmes were more of a BBC speciality. The only ITV science series I can think of at that time was How, which was definitely produced as a children's programme. In 1974, Yorkshire TV created Don't Ask Me, featuring the excellent Magnus Pyke, but that was something of a reaction to The Burke Special that the BBC started producing in 1972.

So faced with an increased demand for popular science programmes, the BBC would probably want to produce it's own programme (and have the expertise to do it) while ITV is more likely to import a successful programme from overseas.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[The Professor]

Thank you, Professor! Given the sheer size of this update, I hope you didn't go and pull a Mr. Creosote on us QUOTE]

Dammit! Making mine a shot of coffee

I'm really enjoying the much more hopeful bent to both SF and space exploration ITTL!
I know you and e of pi have a fertile cross-pollination going on describing what could've been done better on both sides of that coin which I'm eagerly devouring and awaiting the next morsels!
I love the premise of the James Doohan-led show but as many have said, there was a crowded field of good-to-awesome science-based shows knocking around at the time. Maybe with the hangover of Moonshot Lunacy there's enough room for them all.

And with someone else eating I won't get too full

ITV and BBC did tend to specialise in the sorts of programmes they produced in those days. ITV was definitely ahead in Soap Operas, for example. Before Eastenders, the best known Soap Operas on the BBC were imports such as Dallas and Neighbours.

Popular science programmes were more of a BBC speciality. The only ITV science series I can think of at that time was How, which was definitely produced as a children's programme. In 1974, Yorkshire TV created Don't Ask Me, featuring the excellent Magnus Pyke, but that was something of a reaction to The Burke Special that the BBC started producing in 1972.

So faced with an increased demand for popular science programmes, the BBC would probably want to produce it's own programme (and have the expertise to do it) while ITV is more likely to import a successful programme from overseas.

Cheers,
Nigel.

Indeed.
Hmm the 80s science lessons for UK may now get more attendance...
Perhaps a stronger role for the UK within some form of ESA?

 

[stevep]

Brainbin

One question occurred to me. Is there any significant difference to the cold war and relations with the Soviets? A more opportmistic west might make détente more popular, but on the other hand a larger Apollo programme and US space effort in general might make the Soviets feel they have to compete longer. Also without Nixon, did Humphrey visit China? [Having a feeling you said he didn't but can't remember for sure]. If that hasn't occurred and Mao is still feeling isolated and unrestrained you might even have the US and USSR coming together to some degree in concern about what he might get up to. Probably some other drivers for any changes but those are the ones that come to mind.

I know this takes things away from the main scope of programmes and entertainment but in turn factors like this will considerably affect those.

Steve

 

[stevep]

Indeed.
Hmm the 80s science lessons for UK may now get more attendance...
Perhaps a stronger role for the UK within some form of ESA?

Now that could be interesting, although some way ahead. You would probably have to get rid of Thatcher to make Britain more science minded however, especially in education. Far from impossible given the butterflies however.

Steve

 

[e of pi]

Also without Nixon, did Humphrey visit China? [Having a feeling you said he didn't but can't remember for sure]. If that hasn't occurred and Mao is still feeling isolated and unrestrained you might even have the US and USSR coming together to some degree in concern about what he might get up to. Probably some other drivers for any changes but those are the ones that come to mind.

If I recall, Brainbin's stated t Humphery didn't go to China. Where Nixon was able to go because he didn't have to fear being judged for it because of his past record on Communism, Humphery didn't have the kind of reputation that would him let him pull such a manuever.

 

[phx1138]

First things first: thank you everyone for 70,000 views!

As an aside: are those every time a page reloads? 'cause I've had so many browser hangs, I could be 20,000 of those, myself.

Back in high school, the entire student body was given the opportunity to attend a full-text reading of Hamlet, which for whatever reason I did not attend. But by all accounts, the production was terrible, so I'm glad I was able to dodge that bullet. I don't believe I've even seen a live performance of Shakespeare, actually.

Then I suggest you count yourself enormously fortunate. The nearest we came was s travelling roadshow in our school theatre of Wind in the Willows. (There was also a solo act IIRC.) Neither was terrible. Nor Shakespeare, for which I am greatful.

My English teacher was a big dystopian literature enthusiast. Animal Farm, Brave New World... I only dodged 1984 because I had a different teacher that year, so I got The Great Gatsby instead. Then, my voyage through blatant symbolism continued with White Noise the year after that.

We got Animal Farm (Yuck. Seriously, talking animals? Outside "Sesame Street" or "Loony Tunes"...) & Lord of the Flies (Yuck) & Tess. (I got a startlingly good mark on an in-class essay on Tess, seeing I hadn't seen the movie, as recommended, & read only about 3 pages of the book.)

Actually, no they didn't.

I have heard otherwise, but I will take your word for it.

Those who believed that the propagation of the theatre contributed to the degradation of society did, of course

It's perfectly possible this was what the writer in question saw, & didn't do the research. (BTW, prosit.)

Also, it's very difficult to judge what will remain in the popular consciousness in the distant future. This is why many people decline to pass superlative judgement on works that have been recently released, rightly so in my opinion. What becomes iconic is dependent on so many complex variables, most of which are utterly unpredictable.

Absolutely true.

Fair enough. And the fun thing about allegory is that it can be applicable to many "thematically" similar events.

Depending on the context & the need, very true.

So here's where I'm going to come down by editorial fiat: the writers are using a WWII allegory for several reasons. First of all, several of them actually served in WWII, including both Roddenberry and Coon; and the desire for a suitably big finale means that there has to be a war. Now, by definition, they can't depict the Cold War, because there was never any escalation; and if there was, it would end in Mutually Assured Destruction (which, notwithstanding how such an ending would be an incredible cheat, is difficult to dramatize on a galactic scale). So the Federation and the Klingons become unlikely allies against a mutual threat, despite their long-standing ideological opposition to each other (just like the USA and the USSR, prior to WWII), to the bemusement of both sides. And the Romulans, to be fair, borrow from Nazi Germany as much as Imperial Japan (the war ends with them being pushed back from both directions, more akin to Europe than the Pacific; luckily for them, they're led by a Hirohito, as opposed to a Hitler).

I have no problem with that at all. I merely meant to say, from a viewer POV (mine, in this case), China'd be as likely, absent some detail(s) pointing elsewhere.

And now you have yet another reason to love them, right?

I do indeed.

In Hollywood, you're only as successful as your most recent project. And before American Graffiti, for George Lucas, that was THX-1138.

Oh, I do know that. I only mean, did it have to take as long from wrap on "THX1138" to pre-production on "Star Wars"? Was there no way a low(er)-budget version couldn't have gotten OKd somewhere? To be clear, I don't suggest it be retconned; I only wonder.

And by the way, Desilu doesn't make movies.

Not yet, anyhow.

An educational film amounting to a glorified beer commercial? I don't think that's anything that would ever have been allowed to fly in North America!

As cash-strapped as school systems are now (less so in '70s & '80s AFAIK), selling naming rights to the school might not be out of the question. Why do you think Coke & Pepsi have exclusive deals for their soda machines?

We'll have to see how American optimism weathers this economic storm.

Tease.

there are anti-Trek fans of Doctor Who; and Trekkie fans would not appreciate teases without either the Enterprise or her crew present)

There are also likely quite large numbers who like 'em both. (For myself, I've never noticed mutual antagonism.) However (needless to say {so why am I saying it?}), your call.

For better or for worse, this is a show with a very young audience, and the producers are going to focus on topics that reflect this.

I'm seeing a couple of potential spinoff effects. One, it gets adopted as a grade school AV tool. (Side effect: everybody involved in it gets a steady income for a long time.) Two, it produces a generation of kids interested in space (& engineering more broadly), instead of being MBAs & lawyers...

Mariners, actually. Mariner 11 became Voyager 1, and Mariner 12 became Voyager 2. This will also be true ITTL, along with plans for four additional Voyager probes.

Recall faulty again. Thx.

Well, to be fair, even in British English spelling the word with a "z" is considered archaic. Archaisms were abandoned for other reasons IOTL (Columbia, for example, was properly named Columbia Redivida.) It should also be noted that the shuttle is, as IOTL, all but officially named for the NCC-1701, and therefore would take that spelling anyway.

Not suggesting it shouldn't be. Only that there's another way to get there.

So you're in favour of this development, then?

On television, it was, yes. It was previously broadcast on the radio.

We were (are) talking about TV. Actually, the first NHL hockey broadcast was on a Regina radio station about 6mo before CBC did theirs.

On the whole, our continuing collaboration has been a very enjoyable experience. Challenging, but in all the right ways

Enjoyable on this end, too. Glad to see it's not like working with a certain prima donna (for the collaborators' sake, at least).

 

[Brainbin]

More To Come... Right After These Messages

The "present date" is April 26, 1974 (a Friday). In Palmdale, California, at the Rockwell Manufacturing plant, the Space Shuttle Enterprise is being unveiled for the first time, before an enthusiastic audience of well-wishers; these include officials from NASA, and much of the cast and crew from Star Trek, the series whose featured starship is the all-but-official namesake for the new shuttle. Meanwhile, across the San Gabriel Mountains, the studio that produced Star Trek, Desilu, already working to adapt to the demands of a changing industry, must now face the realities of a changing society. The optimism and confidence of the American people is rapidly collapsing in the wake of the Oil Crisis and the ensuing recession, the biggest in more than forty years. And just as in the Dirty Thirties, the populace will seek escapist entertainment to ease their torments.

Hollywood isn't the only place that's been forced to deal with harsh new realities. Politicians throughout the First World are now between a rock and a hard place, obliged to find solutions, or face the wrath of the electorate. Some would achieve a modicum of success; others would only make things worse. In the Second World, on the other hand, this marks the culmination of a series of morale-boosting events throughout the early 1970s. Although the perilous tensions of the earlier phases of the Cold War have not reasserted themselves in this period, the Communist bloc is certainly not above a great deal of gloating on their part.

But as always, what both the First and the Second World (and the Third World, for that matter) have in common is how their media, or their popular culture, works to define the parameters for success or failure, and usually in relative terms. What varies is the reference point: it can be other points in time, other countries, or even other timelines...

So, what can we expect next, and all on account of that wacky redhead?

We'll be taking our usual general overview of the next production and broadcast season: 1973-74.

There will be a return to a previously-mentioned, and much-beloved, British property, and how its latest incarnation will be received by audiences, particularly Americans.

We'll have another look at Hollywood movies, and answer such important questions as "which ones have done well at the box-office?" and "which ones have won the Oscars?".

Our exploration of pop culture will continue with a look at other British television, particularly comedy series of the era.

And we'll finally take an in-depth look at the longer-term political destinies of the three largest economies in the Anglosphere...

All this and more, coming up on... That Wacky Redhead!

Acknowledgements

I would like to give special thanks to the following consultants, who have provided me with valuable assistance in the continuing development of this timeline: Chipperback, e of pi, truth is life, vultan, Electric Monk, and Thande.

And, of course, thanks to all of you for your praise, your criticism, your many and varied opinions, and your continued readership!

 

[THE OBSERVER]

Please tell me that Tom Baker will still be the Fourth Doctor ITTL and will be a big hit with audiences!

 

[Glen]

In addition to the well known Benny Hill and Monty Python Britcoms, I also as a child (yes, I said as a child - explains a lot, huh?) watched and loved the Doctor in the House series on PBS. Yes, PBS basically was my gateway to corruption. I would be very interested to hear about all these and more!

 

[Glen]

Please tell me that Tom Baker will still be the Fourth Doctor ITTL and will be a big hit with audiences!

I've told Brainbin that by my analysis it is possible that Tom Baker could still be cast as the Fourth Doctor, though by no means is it inevitable. I personally hope he is willing to indulge in a little parallelism for this, but it will in the end be Brainbin's call.

 

[Brainbin]

We now return you to your regular programming.

Thank you, Falkenburg, for furnishing yet another round of advertisements, and helping to keep this timeline solvent!

I think it would be more of a wink-wink, nudge-nudge sort of reference.

All right. That sounds more reasonable.

Do you know of any precedent? Was this the case on The Avengers, for example? Also recall that there are no 'creators' of Doctor Who by this time, just the Producer Barry Letts and Script Editor Terrance Dicks. They don't even really have staff writers (just writers that they occasionally use more than once). And the fact that the Americans are helping subsidize the production (the always starved production!) will sooth a lot of ruffled feathers in their shop. The ones who get an attitude in the BBC about the US are also usually the ones who hated Doctor Who anyway, at least as far as I can tell. You or someone else may have a better take on this, but that's my understanding.

To be fair, my interpretation is mostly inferential. Surely, surely there would have to be some people who couldn't help but think "we were doing just fine for nearly a decade before we had to start appealing to those Yanks". Also, I'm making this assessment partly based on information that I've not yet divulged. Suffice it to say that, even though NBC and Desilu have been fairly non-interventionist so far, that's going to change...

Sorry, but I respectfully disagree on this one. I have never heard of one fandom objecting to references to their favored show/stories in another, so long as it was done respectfully. On the contrary, most people seem to like the references. Again, I think they will be subtle and not overly common or a large part of the show, nor will they convert one fan to another, but they won't cause worsening.

Again, the way you initially described it made the crossover materials sound more blatant and ubiquitous. Though I won't back down from my assertion that fandom - maybe only a vocal minority, but it will exist - can be incredibly petulant, selfish, and hostile. Fans of Star Trek and Doctor Who do indeed largely overlap ITTL, but not completely.

I'm really enjoying the much more hopeful bent to both SF and space exploration ITTL!

Thank you, TxCoatl, and I'm glad you're still reading

I love the premise of the James Doohan-led show but as many have said, there was a crowded field of good-to-awesome science-based shows knocking around at the time. Maybe with the hangover of Moonshot Lunacy there's enough room for them all.

This is part of the reason why The Final Frontier was developed in Canada. The American and British networks were developing a lot of educational series, but Canadian networks tended more toward light, whimsical entertainment for children (The Friendly Giant or Mr. Dressup, for example). ITTL, James Doohan isn't some washout; he's a major star (one of the "Big Four") on a beloved series, who has the added cachet of being Canadian, and would thus be far more attractive to the CBC (who, like all Canadian broadcasters, are obliged to meet the requirements for "Can-Con", or Canadian Content, the centrepiece of our cultural protectionism).

So faced with an increased demand for popular science programmes, the BBC would probably want to produce it's own programme (and have the expertise to do it) while ITV is more likely to import a successful programme from overseas.

I like that justification; I think I'll co-opt it wholesale

Perhaps a stronger role for the UK within some form of ESA?

Hold that thought.

One question occurred to me. Is there any significant difference to the cold war and relations with the Soviets? A more opportmistic west might make détente more popular, but on the other hand a larger Apollo programme and US space effort in general might make the Soviets feel they have to compete longer.

I've made some allusions, but I've not stated it outright, so now I will: détente is indeed proceeding on schedule. Both Humphrey and Brezhnev would be in favour of such a policy, and both are more than willing to redirect their ideological differences into nonbelligerent arenas, including the space program. And indeed, the "Race to Mars" proves that the Soviets still have some resilience in that field (though it helps that they surrendered the Moon). Even though Western optimism is greater, so too is Soviet morale; the early 1970s were very much an era of good feelings ITTL. We'll get more into that - in a post-mortem reflection - in the next update.

Also without Nixon, did Humphrey visit China? [Having a feeling you said he didn't but can't remember for sure]. If that hasn't occurred and Mao is still feeling isolated and unrestrained you might even have the US and USSR coming together to some degree in concern about what he might get up to. Probably some other drivers for any changes but those are the ones that come to mind.

You (and e of pi) remember correctly - Humphrey has not gone to China. (For this and other reasons, a few other nations have also not gone to China ITTL, but I won't yet say who and spoil the surprise). He simply does not have the foreign policy cachet. The quick and easy resolution to the overseas quagmire (which involved considerable concessions to the enemy forces) has effectively stripped him of his anti-communist reputation, and the continuing atmosphere of détente isn't helping matters any. Scoop Jackson, as I've often said, is furious at this turn of events, and leads a surprisingly robust opposition to Humphrey from within the Democratic Party. I don't think it's much of a spoiler to reveal that the Democratic Presidential nomination in 1976 is already shaping up to be an epic Muskie vs. Jackson confrontation, more than two years out.

You would probably have to get rid of Thatcher to make Britain more science minded however, especially in education. Far from impossible given the butterflies however.

I've already received an official request from you to eliminate Mrs Thatcher, but nice try We'll find out more about British politics in this very cycle, and that includes finally getting around to some other, previously unanswered questions.

As an aside: are those every time a page reloads?

I don't know about that one, myself. Glen?

We got Animal Farm (Yuck. Seriously, talking animals? Outside "Sesame Street" or "Loony Tunes"...) & Lord of the Flies (Yuck) & Tess.

That's right, we read Lord of the Flies the same year as Animal Farm. We got to see the movie, too - the original 1963 version, not the 1990 "reimagining".

Oh, I do know that. I only mean, did it have to take as long from wrap on "THX1138" to pre-production on "Star Wars"? Was there no way a low(er)-budget version couldn't have gotten OKd somewhere? To be clear, I don't suggest it be retconned; I only wonder.

I doubt Lucas would concede to a lower-budget film. It's become obvious in the 35 years since the original was released that he very deeply resents all the compromises that he was forced to make, even IOTL - all things considered, he had a sweetheart deal going with Alan Ladd, Jr., and, especially after having sacrificed his principles to make American Graffiti, I don't think he'll want to do so again anytime soon. Remember, that legendary ego of his didn't just sprout up out of nowhere.

Why do you think Coke & Pepsi have exclusive deals for their soda machines?

Coca-Cola and Pepsi are non-alcoholic

I'm seeing a couple of potential spinoff effects. One, it gets adopted as a grade school AV tool. (Side effect: everybody involved in it gets a steady income for a long time.) Two, it produces a generation of kids interested in space (& engineering more broadly), instead of being MBAs & lawyers...

So you're mentioning potential effects on 1980s youth culture. We'll definitely have occasion to talk about that - when we get there. Whenever that may be!

Enjoyable on this end, too. Glad to see it's not like working with a certain prima donna (for the collaborators' sake, at least).

Well, I've just revealed my list of collaborators and they're all very helpful and friendly. I hope that I've offered the same courtesy to those asking for my help and advice

Please tell me that Tom Baker will still be the Fourth Doctor ITTL and will be a big hit with audiences!

Welcome aboard, Observer! As Glen explains, I have been asked (and not just by him, either) to ensure that Baker becomes the Fourth Doctor, but there are a number of variables that might work against that. I won't rule it out absolutely, but I certainly can't promise anything, either.

In addition to the well known Benny Hill and Monty Python Britcoms, I also as a child (yes, I said as a child - explains a lot, huh?) watched and loved the Doctor in the House series on PBS. Yes, PBS basically was my gateway to corruption. I would be very interested to hear about all these and more!

The role of PBS in disseminating British programming to (North) American audiences is a critical one - though slightly less so ITTL, relative to OTL, given that the networks are more willing to air British television, like Doctor Who and "U.F.O.", among others. That said, this cycle of updates is definitely going to be more Commonwealth-oriented, as opposed to my primarily Americentric perspective thus far. However, I do plan to further explore PBS and its role in the television landscape in the 1974-75 cycle.